arc

Humans have been constantly at war with each other somewhere on this earth for all of recorded history. We find remains, fragments really, of prehistoric settlements that show signs of violence and burning. We are a warring and savage species. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Before_Civilization Keeley says peaceful societies are an exception. About 90-95% of known societies engage in war. Those that did not are almost universally either isolated nomadic groups (for whom flight is an option), groups of defeated refugees, or small enclaves under the protection of a larger modern state. The attrition rate of numerous close-quarter clashes, which characterize warfare in tribal warrior society, produces casualty rates of up to 60%. He makes three conclusions which the New York Times considers unexpected: that the most important part of any society, even the most war-like ones, are the peaceful aspects such as art that neither frequency nor intensity of war is correlated with population density that societies frequently trading with one another fight more wars with one another

iNow, I think I can answer that challenge. I do have a source that is not currently considered because it is unknown to climate science at this time. It is straight forward and makes accurate predictions. It is the heat from the strain energy released by the mantle at the crust mantle boundary. This heat is released as the mantle is displaced outward producing the currently observed activity at the divergent plate boundaries. This is a variable heat source directly proportionate to the mantle's increase in circumference, which is currently measured at the worlds divergent plate boundaries as tectonic plate movement. I can show it's connection to long term historic temperature changes during geologic periods like the Pliocene and Pleistocene. And I can also track it through the last 1100 years and show how the strain energy source is tied directly to climate temperature change and atmospheric 14C content using USGS graphs. Are you up to a little science outside of current standard model?

There was a time tens of hundreds of thousands of years ago when all those that we would call are human ancestors behaved instinctively exactly the way you were trained to respond. Or was it always there, subconsciously, in a sort of evolutionary deja vu

Let me suggest that the vast majority of the solders in the invading army were illiterate. Those that could read would be in a command role or as scribes in a military/diplomatic communication role between allied armies and their command, be it a general or king etc. This armies purpose is murder, rape and pillage in mass proportions. The invaders have little interest in saving a written language that is not their own. And if it was, almost all could not read it anyway. Something that does not readily come to mind is how these ancient peoples were so much like modern people everywhere. A common practice by people throughout history has been to re-purpose all types of materials. Was this the fate of your missing body of knowledge. As a fire starter or bird cage liner, was it papyrus, vellum, parchment or clay? Let's not forget the fate of most Sears catalogs during the late 19th century.

I believe you are not taking into account that these city states and their cultural histories up to and during this "dark period" you define were highly militarized and engaged in wars of conquest, subjugation and punitive annihilation that involved vary little in saving and appreciating the culture and learning of the vanquished. It's difficult to retain any lasting records of any means under these conditions. You are left with archaeological evidence of looted tombs and fragments of burnt pottery in most cases. It would be very unlikely that any type of written information that is not etched in stone would survive this period, let alone the following 4 millennia.

I believe it is possible. Only time will tell if other fossils will be found in other geographic locations. For a specimen that only weighed 13-18 kg (30-40 lb) and was around 1.8 m long, it is remarkable that any piece let alone an almost complete specimen would survive from the Late Cretaceous (85 million years ago). As a comparison australopithecus-africanus stood an average 138 cm (4 ft 6 in) for males and 115 cm (3 ft 9 in) for females. Their weight averaged 41 kg (90 lbs) for males and 30 kg (66 lbs) for females. They only lived around 3.3 to 2.1 million years ago yet just a few partial remains have been found. More than 80 million years separate these species fossils, yet the oldest are the more complete and better preserved. It seems to me a quite rare occurrence that they have survived so well.

Hey Ed, nice video. I can't get enough of jumping spiders. I showed my wife and son with color commentary by me, they had a good laugh. It reminds me of my single life.

To add to this generational language-culture context flux; Life expectancies were exceedingly short, maybe in the late twenties to early thirties, allowing easier modification of language due to the elimination of what would be in modern context a large middle age and older generation to use and maintain a consistent understanding of a language. One that would counter possible misunderstandings and modifications common in youth. With the parents natural demise at near thirty years of age, the average age of Independence of their children could be as young as infant and as old as 17, not the model for any type of cultural and language consistency. With short life expectancies and reduced generational overlap there would undoubtedly be changes imposed by migration, cross cultural trade and marriages outside of culture, language and geography. Add periodic war, disease and famine and you can expect continuous change of culture and language throughout human history.

The evidence of past seekers of knowledge that include Galileo, Leonardo da Vinci‎, Newton and Einstein, as well as many others, all of whom made reference to a deity would seem to make your assertions incorrect. They may be accused as being of simpler and more naive times, lacking the evidence that you have utilized to make a superior assessment to the chances of the existence of such a deity. But it also itself seems unlikely that any of us could assume these obviously superior intellects did not spend a great deal of time pondering such a fundamental question, one that even us lesser minds consider often. And also consider this example of two people I have admired greatly since early in my life. They may be considered more average by scientific standards, yet applied scientific principles as well as any of their contemporaries and even by today's standards would show little bias. This is from a post I made several weeks ago so some may recognize it. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/78004-religious-dogma-has-infected-the-world-of-science/ The development of flight, that is, the scientific discovery of the characteristics of flight was systematically revealed over several years through careful experimentation by the Wright brothers. They first invented, again through careful experimentation, the instruments to study flight. They built the first wind tunnel that would later test over 200 scale wing configurations, one of which actually flew at Kitty hawk Dec. 17 1903. It was their discipline to the scientific process that enabled their success. To discover human flight and not be killed while doing it was a direct consequence of the control that a diligent and thorough scientific study can produce. They flew their Wright glider one year earlier and accomplished their goals for tethered flights and returned home to Ohio by train. They carefully went over their data and returned the next year for their first powered flight. Careful, systematic accumulation of knowledge allowed human flight. A fact well sharpened with the knowledge that only one of them completed high school. While the Wrights experimented some of their fellow seekers of flight died or were crippled as the first true crash test dummies. The Wright brothers could have likely flown on the 13th of Dec. instead of the 17th. The weather was perfect, but they were the devout sons of a bishop and would not work on or attempt to fly their life's dream on a Sunday. Then weather and mishap delayed them until the 17th. Their religious devotion encumbered them very little even though there were many religious commentators stating at the time that if man was intended to fly God would have given him wings. The Wrights could apparently accommodate both and be great scientists. These debates seem rather pointless in my opinion, for me to judge minds, either long dead or now present, that are clearly greater than mine, about their opinion on either side of this subject would be hypercritical in my view and accomplishes nothing to further a definitive answer to this contentious debate. I will instead devote my precious time to questions that are within my realm of understanding and can be answered within a scientific process. But that being said, I do not believe that a belief either way in this debate can be used as a qualifier for ones subjective abilities in science. The proof will be in ones work, not in the pondering's of the unknown or even unknowable.

They need to be covered quickly, such as blowing sand or even a collapse of a sand cliff to secure their survival through the ages. All of the current examples look to have been in sand shortly after their time of death.

The largest volcano on Earth, and possibly the solar system, may have been discovered; http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/09/130905-tamu-massif-shatsky-rise-largest-volcano-oceanography-science/ "A volcano the size of New Mexico or the British Isles has been identified under the Pacific Ocean, about 1,000 miles (1,600 kilometers) east of Japan, making it the biggest volcano on Earth and one of the biggest in the solar system." The article describes the structure, called Tamu Massif, as a shield volcano like Mauna Loa in Hawaii, a rounded dome measuring approximately 450 by 650 kilometers (280 by 400 miles), 292,500 square km in area. The peak is about 2,000 m (6,500 ft) below the surface, while the base extends down to about 6.4 kilometers (4 miles) deep. It is located at the boundary of three tectonic plates. Which makes it fit my hypothesis perfectly. "My hypothesis simply requires that the molten iron of the Earth's magnetic field generator will vary over million year time periods, and that is verified in the above. An increase in amperage will always include an increase in temperature. The temperature increase will in turn always produce thermal expansion of the molten iron. This will displace the mantle and release strain energy in the form of heat during its outward expansion. The slow increase in the mantle's circumference will require the crust to separate and adjust to release the continual tension." This would allow the molten magma to make it's way to the surface at a divergent plate boundary where, by the way, the crust is thinnest. According the model this would be a period of higher magnetic field strength, increasing the molten cores temperature and resulting in more extension of the crustal plates by the thermal displacement of the mantle. This is similar to the formation of other large scale flood basalt events such as the Deccan and Siberian Traps. ​ It's important to define this mechanism. It is directly proportional to the thermal expansion of the outer core's molten iron, which itself is proportional to the magnetic field's increase in strength. The distance the plates are separated or more properly retracted is what is proportional and resultant of those values. It is simply that the wider the plates are separated the more magma can flow out. A junction of three plates makes for an even more efficient aperture through which magma can flow out in large volumes. So the model simply states that the larger the plates, the plates with the largest or widest expanses, will be proportionally separated at divergent plate boundaries in greater and proportional degrees to the smaller plates, thus explaining the volumes of these basaltic outflows. "Imagine the Earth with one single belt of seafloor around the equator with one end considered attached, immovable. The other end a short distance away unconnected. Now we can apply the thermal increase that displaces the mantle and extends the crust. We can now see the gap between the plate ends open a given degree. Now we all know that if the belt was divided in half and then in quarters it would with each reduction in length show a proportional reduction in movement. This means that a wider ocean plate like the Pacific would show more movement than a narrower one. And the Pacific plate having the widest expanse of plate material shows an unusually large amount of movement resulting in more infill. While the Atlantic being narrower shows a proportionally smaller amount of movement." The current divergent plate boundary metrics observed, the Pacific being 80-120 mm per year and the North Atlantic being 25 mm per year, are indicative that the energy level that now produces the expansion of the crust is less than that which produced the Tamu Massif and which is itself even smaller than the energy level that produced the Deccan and Siberian Traps. Had there been an even larger field strength during the Deccan and Siberian Traps events the continents may have separated and created a new divergent plate boundary. There is always a subsequent ocean that would follow over time as the nascent mid ocean ridge grows and extends the new continental shelf on either side of the new rift. This is how the Atlantic formed and all other divergent boundaries found in ocean or continental locations.

The more successful a species the greater the chance of finding remains. But size matters, big bones do not get scavenged at the time of death and resist the forces of time and geology much better than smaller and lighter bones would. Other animals, wind and more importantly water scatter smaller remains over wide areas. The ancestors to birds show the gradual development of hollow bones, which makes them lighter and more fragile, leading to greater dispersion by surface water and wind. The specimens found indicate rapid burial in a sandy terrain, conserving the largely complete remains in a probably quite rare circumstance. This to me does not indicate their limitation to a small geographic area, only that their remains, due to their characteristics, are quite easily erased by time and geology.

Moontanman Posted 4 September 2013 - 05:19 PM It would appear that the main species only occurred in Asia but Utah raptor which is a larger version did live in North America...

The move from four legs, that currently all legged reptiles including those that climb posses, to a two legged bipedal stance, is marked by more than anything else, a vastly faster and more efficient mode of transport. Currently a wide variety of birds continue this behavior of running to chase prey, to take flight or as flightless species such as the ostrich or emu to run from predators. Two legs is not a climbing physiology. Most climbing reptiles have, besides their four legs, a low center of gravity. It is difficult to imagine a taller bipedal with a higher center of gravity changing from a running adaptation to a climbing. It just doesn't fit the mechanics. The comparison to other glide adaptations does not take into account that they are low, four legged with grasping front limbs ideal for climbing such as in flying squirrels. The bipedal proto bird would be of such awkward disadvantage on steep terrain to four legged climbing predators (remember they don't have flight yet) that an adaptive change should address these difficulties. One such as lowering the center of gravity. Lets imagine a four legged reptile with feathered limbs running down the steep hill sides where it lives to flee from predators. Is this a proto bird, the flying squirrel of reptile adaptation. An important point is that the squirrels just jump and glide, flying squirrels do not need to run to take off. So why would a bipedal runner be on the side of a cliff jumping off? Now imagine a reptile that evolved to a none climbing biped, an extremely fast runner, which by the way prepares the cardiovascular for the demands of flight. Its diminutive or at least reduced forward limbs, no longer needed for traction, are more often now used as balance when leaping for prey. I believe the pursuit of prey drove this running, pursuing flying insects eventually lead to flight. The road runner (Geococcyx californianus) resembles what I would imagine the early adaptations resembled. They are considered weak flyers yet run at speeds as high as 32 km/h (20 mph) Does this road runner look like a climber? Does it resemble its earliest ancestors?

Well, it looks like there is not a consistent sequence to these feathers. Ringer and Moontanman have furry feathers for insulation preceding flight feathers. But current flightless birds have furry feathers after flight feathers. Penguins, also a flightless bird, have gone back to the beginning with flippers showing scales or something similar gradually elongating into feathers over the flippers leading edge. I think we can agree reptilian skin with scales was at some point the beginning. It appears to me this base structure can change in a variety of ways, based upon evolutionary need. If this is how an avian ancestor dealt with cooling climates or migration then that seems logical. It obviously evolved sooner or later into flight. But the example of the penguin may show this as not needing to be confined to a particular sequence or evolutionary direction. These things are the Swiss army knife of adaptation.

But now few examples in flightless birds?. I do think the penguin's front flipper gives a nice example of scales to feathers over its surface, from leading edge to the back, a nice example of the development of flight technology, in reverse of coarse, but a smooth transition if so interpreted.

I have my own hypothesis on this. I imagine these small agile bipeds primarily feeding on flying insects, running after them and snatching them out of the air as they fly by or take to the air to escape. This chasing and jumping behavior would give advantage to the fastest and highest leaping, leading to the physiology of extremely fast bipeds that catch prey on the fly. The arms and tail would show in following generations the slow adaptation to the gradually extending glide times. Spreading the forearms apart increases balance and control in the air. This also introduces the arm and tail surfaces to the advantages of increased lift by having longer scales at these extended appendage's trailing edge's. The natural urge to "swim" up by flapping the arms to move just a little higher to grab the prey should drive towards lightness of bones, increased cardiovascular development and the gradual change of reptilian scales into feathers. This scenario may also have drove the decrease in large insects, being large as these predators took to the air would have its disadvantages and give the smaller prey higher chances to survive and reproduce. And this in turn would produce smaller flying predators to match. The current theories of tree or cliff climbing seem rather cumbersome, relying on the proper geography or flora at the right time and place rather than the plenitude of airborne prey to drive adaptation for a already running and leaping predator. "If they had feathers and they lost most of them I would expect to see feathered crests and such as a sexual display." "Hey baby, you come here often" Why do I hear 50's doo wap music?

O.K. I withdraw my compliment.

But you appear to know what you are talking about. I have not seen your posts challenged for their accuracy, so in my book that means your opinion is of value.

To be perfectly honest with you, I do not understand any of the maths involved in the physics that are discussed on this forum. But the experts here do, as well as a large portion of the members. How many have come forward to defend your thesis? And despite my limitations I and everyone else here know how ridiculous your posts read. For one, nobody uses miles for astronomical units of measure. This is not even science fiction, it is a bad attempt at fantasy. Invented? You have produced an abstract assembly of verbiage that has as much structural resemblance to reality as a pile of lumber does to a house. To be scientific you only need to discover the truth behind the observations you make. You create a model that can be verified by the model's accurate predictions of those observations. You have to be honest with what you say, this thread looks more like a door to door sales scam. A bad sales pitch and you can't deliver what you say you have. Hey, ACG and swansont are the professionals you need to answer to, I am just another lowly member that is annoyed by the attention they and the others give to crap like this. I enjoy just getting to unload some frustration at your expense. Science can be an opportunity to us less gifted. We just need to choose subjects that are within our range of understanding. And it cannot be faked by us either. Could someone who doesn't know chess fool a grand master? And lastly, if you don't come clean I will be forced to abbreviate your screen name.

Ummmm, I think I still have a half a tank of gas?

Using miles to express ass-tronomical distances is as logical as your car's odometer measuring distance in widths of a hair. I think my car gets 200000000000000000000 hairs per tank full, but I'm a little fuzzy on the math.

Do the conditions of this bet include the probability of variability similar to what is viewed to have occurred in the last 15,000 years? With extreme cold events similar to Younger Dryas events and even the next glacial period?

That depends on how fast the bureaucrats can put together a fact finding committee. Because we all know that is how we get to the bottom of these type of things.

When I use my 1950's steel barrel mixer around the home I use the rhythmic sound of the mixture, adding a little water changes the tone that the sand and gravel make like a pair of mismatched maraca's. You can mix with your eyes closed. Singing is optional.