siderman

Thanks 2112 and split infinity, your explanition is based on something I didn't know. "gravity increases the closer you get to it's center." is all about relativity. Am I getting what you said? ... Gravity is after all, a force, so gravity doesn't increase, just the force it exerts on matter relative to both objects distance from their centers of their masses. It fits, the extreme smallness of the singularity allowes gravity to exert it's force almost totatlly. So I come away with the question: "Does gravity have limit to the force it exerts?" Could there be a situation when it can be turned up to eleven?__from SpinalTap the movie Anyway, thanks for the welcome and the basic insights to one of my trouble with Black Holes. "I Want To Believe" MikeL aka siderman

The understanding of "nothing" is what makes the Big Bang so difficult to get our heads around. Since space and time and energy all originated from the event called "the big bang", nothing is what existed pre bang [that just sounds redundant}. The nothing, post bang, is defined as a singularity but in pre-bang terms the universe [space, time and energy] could have been 1000's of "light years" across. With no way to measure, there's no way to determine a size. It may seem somewhat abstract, but it makes sense to me. In an absence of space time, "an inch is as good as a mile". Happy motoring ...... MikeL

U people sound impressive and seem to have given physics some real thought. It also seems these thoughts tend to become competitive. I have some questions and theorys of my own and welcome other points of view and hope to combine the thoughts of others to deepen and perhaps direct my thinking of what is. If my ideas seem strange or "wrong", I'm not competing in a who's right or I'm smart and you are not game. I'd like a place to express myself without fearing ridicule. That said, I welcome you to my brain as I hope I might be welcomed into this neardy, wordy, and wise clan of thinkers. I'd like to know the science behind the gravity difference of a star and its collapsed form called a black hole. How does density relate to gravity? Futhermore, how can a supermassive black hole be a singularity? Isn't what we call a black hole simply a result of the existance of this mysterious singularity [which I'm led to believe is a point with no mass and infinite gravity] in our multi-dimentional universe. A super warping of space-time, like in Einstine's theorys? So why refer to these objects as having "the mass of a hundred of our suns", or any mass at all? are these "supermassive black holes" thought of as actual remenents of mass accumulation from objects entering the singularity and adding to it? Is it common knowledge that the singularities of the supermassive black holes found at the center of galixies have dimentions? Does space have mass? Photons are real yet have no mass allowing the to travel at "warp 1". How does science explain that? I've got more but don't want to throw too much at once. This thread is very interesting and I would be glad to voice my take on some of the points raised, but I haven't even been welcomed yet. Throw stones if you must, this might not be the place I think it is. Peace-out ... MikeL

My reply to "black hole mass" is why is the gravity of the original star multiplied simply because of size and/or density? When the large star explodes does it not release massive energy? Einstine tells us energy is mass, so by exploding the stars mass is some what reduced while it's gravity, in it's victory over fussion, crushes into the atomic level to leave no space between the nucleus [protons & nutrons] and the orbiting or vibrating electrons of each remaining atom. Yes, that's dense, but what is the science behind this atomic density creating this object's gravitational increase? To transform a star into a black hole, by definition, requires a large addition of the gravitational force. Another hic-up of Black holes is the singularity, or the actual object of black holes with no mass and emence gravity. WTF is a super massive black hole's singularity? We believe in the big bang because space did not exist until the bang so, in post bang terms, the singularity of the bang could have been 1000's of light years across. In pre space thought, the same thing could be called a single point. But space and time do exist now, no matter how intertwined, so what is the science behind size? Are stellar and supermassive black holes singularities? One last thing, if gravitons exist, would they reside within the atoms or among them?