DIM TIM

I just recently noticed a post on a forum board that covers DIY topics for people that live the self sufficient lifestyle that many of our great-grandfathers lived over 100 years ago ( I love to tinker with old ways as a hobby). It was on the subject of white wash paint, and the chemical make-up of it. I found it rather interesting, and thought provoking as well. As I went back into the main page for the forum sub-topics, I noticed one on Oxygen Absorbers. Now I know what some of you may be thinking, and yes...they did not use these things back then. The topic was for making DIY oxygen absorbers to add to stored grains and other perishable staples in sealed jars, buckets, etc, to extend the shelf life of these pantry stock ingredients that are stored for long term. It sounds rather simple to do, just simple rusty,iron filings, salt, a paper envelope to hold the material, and a few drops of water to help in the activation process. Placed into the container, it was mentioned by the person that posted it, that the moisture contained in wheat ( particular grain mentioned for reference) was sufficient to keep the process going till all the oxygen was absorbed for adequate long term storage. I am not a chemist, but found this post rather intriguing. So what say you chemists ? Will this really work as well the commercial O2 absorbers that these people buy to store their grains long term? It seems sound in theory and principle for what little I know about certain chemical reactions, but as I said, I'm not a chemist, so I really don't know for sure.

The reason that I posed this one was because I found myself going off at a tangent with my thinking. I am trained in the electrical and the electronic sciences. I don't know a lot about the chemical parts of the science, but I do know that there is a relationship to the two of them, even down to the molecular level. Being that we are electro-chemical in nature. As an electronic technician, I understand how vibrations, both mechanical and sonic, can effect certain things in certain ways. This is where this all started. I am just wondering if the interaction of the cells by either mechanical or sonic vibration, are being acted upon and/or interacted with in the chemical processes at or even below the molecular and the atomic levels. Perhaps this is what triggers the cells to become cancerous in nature, and to spread as quickly as they do sometimes. Just a thought. As to how you could test this theory........I haven't got to that part yet. It's sort of like you are writing a novel that might be 800 - 1000 pages in length. And I am still writing page 2 ! ! ! The answer for all of this may never be found in my lifetime, but like I mentioned in my original post...maybe someone will get an idea from something that I said, and VIOLA' they will find the cure. Too late for some people, but if just one can be saved later on, and then another......................

Well, I'm glad I stopped to read all of this before going to get something to snack on. I think that you are looking in the wrong direction with all of this. The reason being that you instantly assume that evolution is right. Have any of the people ever stopped to consider that it isn't ? And if so, how far have they gone into their thoughts of all of this under the assumption that it is wrong ? I am not a gambling man, but I'd be willing to bet the last dollar in my pocket that they haven't, or haven't gone as far considering this as the truth instead of evolution being true. Either way, I'll take those odds any day. Just my two cents. Just because someone says something is, doesn' mean it actually "IS".

I started to post this in Molecular Biology, but as I started to think about it, I thought that it would probably be better to post here because of the speculation factor involved. I have no real scientific background other than the courses I took in school, and I was not an "A" student. But I was not a class dunce either. I love a good puzzel, and so I did well enough to pass my classes, and over the years I developed enough of a better understanding of the different diciplines, that when greater minds than mine start takling about certain things in their specific sciences, I can at least follow along and get their point. So here goes. My mother just passed away this past year from cancer. Or perhaps I should say her fight against cancer. I believe it was the combination of the treatment, her age, and the chemical physiology of the cancer and the interaction of the drugs involved it the treatment process. It has always been my belief that chemical switches and something else, interact with each other to cause the cancer cells to switch on and form. But the question has been.......what ? I was doing some thinking yesterday on a completely different subject, and suddenly was struck by a thought........what if it is a disruption of a chemical process triggered by an outside force ? To be a bit more specific....what if the process at the cellular level is stopped or triggered by something other than a chemical process, say maybe something at the molecular or even the atomic level ? What got me to thinking of this is not important, but it got me to thinking of an analogy that I could express to someone that would make sense. I have picked my brain for one or two that would work, but I am not quite sure if these will make sense or not, and for that matter, I may be way off in my thought process, but here goes. All of the cells are doing what they do, each and every day. They have been doing this day in, and day out for as long as they have been in existance. At a certain time, each one does "X", and then they go on to another state, where they do "Y". BUT.......about half way through the process, some stray atom comes along through inner space, and bumps into the nucleus, or one of the surrounding atoms and "BIP", the process is shut off or does the exact oposite of what it is supposed to do. It does "Z". Sort of like when you play billards. If you strike the object ball with the cue ball in just the right spot, you win the game by sinking the object ball in the desired pocket. If not, then you miss the pocket, or worse yet, you sink the object ball, and "SCRATCH" by sinking the cue ball as well. IN either case.......you lose. In another thought, the cells are doing what they do, each and every day. Same as before. This time, just as they are doing their change, there is a disruption of the process at the molecular and/or the atomic level, but instead of a direct action by a stray atom, there is instead, a disruption of the process by a harmonic vibration passing through the cellular body, or in close proximity of that cell or group of cells. The one that comes to mind for this one is a bowl of Jello. As it starts to set up, something shakes the bowl rather violently or moderately. Either way, the surface of the Jello in the bowl, will not be smooth to the naked eye, but may have a lot of surface distortion. It is still Jello, but now it is just a bit different than if the bowl was undisturbed as it was setting up. As I said, these may not be the best descriptions of where I wanted to go in trying to describe my thoughts on this, but I think that everyone that reads this will get the point that I am trying to convey. I may not even be close with either, but I just wanted to put them out there for discussion. Who knows, maybe my actions of putting this out here for others to consider, just might find the right person, and they just might be the one to get the answers right and figure a way to do away with this killer once and for all. And for all I know, it may give someone else the thought that may help to combat other problems we face in life. So what about it ? Does anyone see where I was going with this, and am I looking in the right direction, or am I chasing a rabbit, so to speak ?

Thats OK, Your link was still a great help, because as I stated in my last post, I found my answer on a site that was off on a stray tangent from there. I would have never thought to look at that particular site myself, but thats OK, I found my answer, and that was what really mattered.......By the way, in case anyone is interested, a few of the shielding methods I described would probably work, as long as the outer container is properly grounded. The one mentioned about using a galvanized metal trash can showed the best promise. All inner packages would be best left in their original packaging, and then wrapped inside a few sheets of heavy duty aluminum foil. Seems that the can would absorb and pass at least the first 99% of the pulses energy to ground, and the foil around the packaging would handle the last little bit.

WELL, I tried. Thought for sure that I would find my answer here on the forums, but just like I said in my last post, my answer came from an unlikely source. I want to thank you Mr.Skeptic. Your link did not even come close to helping me find the answer, but through a series of trial and error searches on some wild tangents that were somewhat related, I was able to find what I wanted to know. Thought for sure that it would have come from here or your link, but hey, I'll take what I can get, and I was even able to come up with some mathmatic calculations, and even a description of the required elements to get the needed results for the protection that I was looking for. Who would have thought ?

That seems to be the main problem now, I had hoped to get an educated answer to this one, but nobody seems to take the POSSIBLE threat of determined terrorists who are actively seeking to purchase nuclear devices , even as I write this reply, seriously. Of course, nobody would have thought that a group of them would hijack commercial airliners, and use them as weapons of mass destruction either. There is a perception among many Americans, that these people are stupid, and not truly capable of someting as complex as a stratigic first strike. Oh sure... they might get their hands on a few small nukes off of the Black Market, and MAYBE they could get them into the country and set them off, but the death toll would be small, and then we would just go and destroy them all, because the government will take care of it. ( This is the thought of some people in this country even now ) The truth is....... these people hate ALL of us. They will do whatever it takes to inflict as much death and destruction upon as many of us as they can. That is why this is a real possibility as a terrorist threat to ALL of us. If you have any doubt as to this, then I ask you all to consider this............. For longer than I can remember, people have been sneaking across our borders, and smuggling all sorts of contraband into our country as well. So I will concede to you all, that the possibility exists, that they could sneak a nuke into the country, and set it of in the center of a major city, killing thousands, and causing terror to millions. BUT............. If they got their hands on 3-4, they could do as I posted at the start, and launch them from the decks of cargo ships, just outside the territorial linits of our country ( international waters ), in The Atlantic Ocean, The Pacific Ocean, and The Gulf of Mexico. They would not need large ICBM missles, just the simple SCUD missles that they have access to right now. They would launch them from just outside our territorial limits, and in a matter of minutes, they would reach the altitude needed for maximum yield, and detonate, because we have no real missle defense against an attack of this sort. The resulting EMP bursts would blanket the entire country, and then all of the effects that I mentioned in my second reply and querry on the subject, would happen to the entire country. (Biggest Bang for the $Buck$ ) The resulting death toll from the effects of the pulse, as well as the chaos and barberism that would follow, would cause a single strike against a major city to pale in comparison. Seems that SOME people don't take too kindly to having their lives and their world turned upsidedown, and some of them will take whatever YOU might have, if it means that they will live to see tomorrow. And they won't care if you live or not. Desperation will make even the most civilized persons on the planet to do WHATEVER it takes to survive. The reason that I asked in my original post as to whether or not that the shielding methods that I mentioned would work or not, was because some people in this country realize that, if some electronic devices could be made to survive, ( communications gear, power generation equipment, etc, ) then the few of them that put back some of this equipment, would be able to keep their families, groups, community, etc, better able to make it through what would lie ahead. If any of the described methods of shielding would work, I had planned to put back a good supply of the FRS and GMRS radios, chargers, rechargeable batteries, and a couple of power generation sources, to be given to our local police department, and county sherrif's office, as well as a few for my own family to use. And another set of items that I thought would be of good use, would be a spare set of controls and computer module for my Chevy Silverado. As a matter of fact, if any of the shielding methods would work, I had even thought of bringing this posted thread to the attention of the sherrif's office, the local police, local fire department, and the local chapter of CERT, and the city public works department as well, so that they might consider this threat, and prepare for the possibility themselves. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO...........I come back to my original question. WOULD ANY OF THE TYPES OF SHIELDING THAT I MENTIONED IN MY ORIGINAL POST WORK ? As I stated in my second reply, as an Electronic Technician, within the limits of my knowledge of how the EMP pulse works, and the numbers for the math, then it would seem possible, but I have no way to test this, and the physics involved is beyond my knowledge. So this is why I asked here. Surely with all of the well educated individuals that post here, and all of the persons with degrees in higher mathmatics and physics, surely there is at least ONE person out here that has the answer to this question. Maybe not. It is possible that my answer could come from a more unlikely source, but the odds are in my favor, that I would more likely find it here. So, even if YOU ( whoever that may be ) read this post, and don't know the answer, try to think about this, and ask around to all of your friends and colleagues. Maybe one of them would know the answer to this one, and then you could pass it along. There are a great number of people in this country that would love to know the answer to this one, myself included.

Ok...just for clarification, there is no need for an ICBM for delivery. A Scud Missle on a mobile lancher mounted on the deck of a cargo ship would be able to get a warhead high enough to work, and I'm sorry to hve to be the one to point this out, but everything that is using a transistor, diode, micro chip, etc, and is not hardened [ protected ] is going to be rendered inoperable and worthless. And I do mean EVERYTHING. To borrow a phase......." more bang for the $buck$ " Autos [ from the early 70's to the present ].......DEAD. Modern jet aircraft.......will drop right out of the sky.No gliding to an emergency landing, because they don't work like that. Communications.......pfffffffffttttttt nothing, nada, zip......ALL FRIED. UTILITIES.......Water, Sewer, Phone, Electricity.......GONE. And don't look for any of them to be back in use anytime soon, because I have done my homework on this stuff. We are talking years, and in some cases.......decades. Hell, Congress released their big 200 page report on the subject just a couple of years back, and the pictre that they paint is not good at all for us. So what about my questions in my original post for this thread, would any of the measures work to shield items packed inside from the effects of the pulse ? As an Electronic Tech., I am not 100% sure, becase I have no good, solid evidence as to how the propigation of he way that the wave works, or any of the numbrs required to do the math for the shielding. My best guess, with the information that I have, and with my available knowledge of electronics is, that if the items to be protected were wraped in foil, in their original boxes, and then wrapped in heavy plastic, and then placed into a metal container that had no air gaps or holes, and was properly grounded to an Earth ground, then the charge from the wave should be run off to ground, and should have no effect on the items stored in the container. But this is just speculation on the problem, by virtue of the limited knowledge I have of the numbers, and the effects of how the wave works, and the properties of the wave.

I was not real sure which forum to post this one under, so I'll put it here tosee if someone has the answer to it, and if any of you moderators feel compelled to move it, I'll understand your decission. I read, and sometimes do posts on survival and preparedness boards all over the web. Many folks are concerned with these subjects since 09/11/01, and the Katrina hurricane, as well as a host of other possible disasters and events. One thing that I have noticed on a number of these boards is the concern over terrorists getting hold of a couple nukes, mounting them on a couple of rocket launchers aboard a few cargo ships, and launcing them high into the atmosphere above the country to be detonated, and killing all our electronic dependent items for life as we know it with the resultant EMP pulse. A lot of folks make posts on some of these boards about building a Faraday Cage of sorts, from materials of all sorts to store their electronic items, to keep them safe from the pulse. Some of them run from surplus ammo cans, to metal paint cans that you can buy from Lowe's, to galvanized metal trash cans, and even metal garden sheds. While I can see the reasoning behind their posts, I still wonder if any of these would really work, and so I post this for discussion. I have a technical degree in Industrial Electronics, and a basic working knowledge of the principle of the workings of the Faraday Cage, but I would tend to think that with the knowledge that I have seen expressed in some of the posts I have read, that there must be at least one person out here that knows what will and what won't work. So is there a solution to this that the average person could use to protect their items, and what would work that they could fabricate themselves if so ?

Ok...just my two cents, because it is only MY opinion, and this reflects a limited bit of knowledge of both types of waves on my part, but...if a certain harmonic is reached by either wave, and is of a certain amplitude in its amount of expressed energy (even in different mediums) it should be possible. Even with the different mediums, it would seem to be only a matter of amplitude and harmonics as best I could tell. The way I see it is sort of along the line of this........Imagine that there is an earthquake. In certain types fo soil there would be shockwaves of different types depending on where you measured. At the point of release, there would be a sharp waveform that might cause a sample of glass breakage by sonic waveform propigation, and at the same time it could be possible that there would be mechanical breakage due to shearing physical movement. They would be different forces, but the results would have the potential to be there just the same, so the destructive effect, would have the potential to be there for both, but as to if they would interfere simultaneously.......that I could not even begin to say. Possible, but I could be wrong, perhaps because of some given property of the waves that I am unfamiliar with. As I said this is only an opinion, and it is based on somewhat limited knowledge of the physics involved in this question. But based on what I do know.......plausible as far as I can tell.

Here's a thought.......If both objects (the wall, and the object to go thru the wall )were solid.......NO WAY BUT.......If the wall or the object that was trying to pass thru were in a state of flux by means of electromagnetic harmonics................................................................!!! Think of the ground itself.....now place a rock on the ground.....now vibrate the ground at a certain frequency ( liquefaction of the soil would take place at some point ).....and the rock would pass thru the soil, pulled downward by gravity. Now take your wall or the object to be passed thru apply an electromagnetic field that operates at a certain frecuency to allow the object to pass thru slightly out of phase and back in once it is thru....sort of like when your hand is wet and soapy, and you are able to pass your finger thru the membrane of a soap bubble thru the fact that your finger is coated with a soap and water mix, and keeps the surface tension equal. Not the exact same thing, but you get a mental picture of what is trying to be accomplished. Just a thought.

But isn't space a vacuum ? It would seem to me that with no resistance, that the shock wave from the CREATION of all things would keep on going forever with nothing to impede the motion, and that it would be a perfect sphere going outward in all directions at once.

Read my post on a ball lightning question in the theoretical physics board. I think that if conditions are just right, that it would be possible. But that is a big IF.

It did not say, and this is what brought the question to my mind in the first place. The way the report was written, led me to think that there was none at all.The person that this happened to said it went right past him, or perhaps even thru him, and passed thru the wall behind him. This is what made me think that the thing was harmonic in nature, and sort of phased thru objects or at least between the molecules.

OK, I'm just an average guy that came to these forums to look for an answer on a question of Ball lightning, and I thought that I would stop for a few minutes and check out a couple of posts while I was here. This is a good question. I have a thought that I would like to share. Here goes, and I hope that I don't sound too stupid when I ask this............. Why would it end ??? Didn't scientists create and still use the symbol for infinity for a reason ? Is it so hard to think that something like space goes on forever? I learned a long time ago that, just because you don't understand or beleive something, does not mean that it is not so.