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I think... the Jury is still out on the intelligence of the Octopus. But they are pretty amazing creatures.

I heard an interesting take on things. Life isn’t driven by the survival of the most well adapted… But rather the “will to power”. In other words the desire to explode outward and release energy. Someone will know what famous philosopher came up with that one.. His name begins with “N”

Brains and warm blood. Ever notice how the deep sea is really cold? Ever notice how warm blood is not evolved in such a hostile energy sucking medium. Most cold blooded things seem to be of lower intelligence. Do you suppose warm blood is a prerequisite to high intelligence? If so, why?...if not, why not?

Well, Sunspot my friend…. When I hear or see something, I am fully aware of all the conscious and subconscious meanings, and what’s more…. can rate them with percentage objectivity… (if I bother to). In other words…I know when I’m reading too much into whats between the lines.

Q: why the hell did I let Sunspot talk me into this "experiment". A: Senora :A Spanish married woman. ok, that's it.. I'm out!

Q: what is an apple. A: Jute , the fiber from an Indian plant used for making twine. and I deliberately picked apple because of its many many connotations...none of which by the way are twine. am I missing something?

I think that social groups and the habitual nature of people produce intersecting patterns. Example: One person in your social group finds a new place to eat… likes it, casually mentions it to other members of your wider social group.. and before you know it you coincidentally bump into old friends at that eating place. There are normal explainable patterns there… but some are every subtle. Also there is the fact of heightened awareness. Example. If you have a friend with a particular type of coat…you will notice anyone wearing that type of coat… If that coat has no significance to you,.. you could walk past twenty in a week and not notice one of them.

Sunspot…. I’m trying to help you here. You are using what is known as inductive reasoning. Particularly, the form known as “analogous inductive reasoning”. Example…if the mind is like a computer ( in that both have memory)…then the mind is like a computer in every other way…. As we know that is false…the brain has no copper wires in it for example. See, that type of reasoning is not that well accepted. If you were to use “Deductive reasoning” on the other hand…you would get less resistance. Example, the mind has memory, and a computer has memory, therefore both are able to store data from the past to be retrieved and reconsidered in the present. See…smaller jumps…less contestable.

Sunspot.. I agree. Can you keep it simple. OK, so something goes on behind the surface awareness of your mind… Should we start by looking at what can be held in the aware portion. As far as I can tell by my own brain…I can only hold one idea at a time. and that idea floats along on a line of time. Anyone saying they can hold two simultaneous ideas in their awareness.

So…are you telling me .. That you have developed your own total theory on how the human brain processes information . Did you do this for a reason? Have you checked with other more conventional models before you did all this hard work. Immediately this geometric parallel turns me off. It seems too limiting and complicated to capture the human dynamic.

Ok…I just re read your original post . You seem to be drawing a parallel between the human mind and a Personal computer. Correct? You have observed that in some situations, your body does some complicated actions that you are not aware of. Correct? You have then concluded that at least some of the control of your body is being operated by parts of your mind that your self awareness is not in touch with. Correct? You have picked the 10 % popular illustration to help the point. I agree with you totally. I know that at this moment my self awareness is not controlling my fingers as they hit the keyboard. My awareness is instead performing the more complicated function of hunting through your mass of words for some pure concepts. And that: the idea behind “practice” is to shift complicated activates from the ”self aware” part of my mind into the “other” place. That frees up my mind to strategize. Question is : Where is that “other” place And how much else goes on there.

Sunspot, I think you might be on to something. But any idea should be able to be expressed simply in a way that a wide audience can understand.

Depends on the definition of consciousness… I looked it up in Wiki just now and was surprised to find that my two immediate questions were exactly mentioned in the article.

The reason I’m not buy into this 80% reality processing idea… is that you would need to show that while asleep only 20% activity is occurring. I thought that the brain had a merry old work out during dreaming. What’s the best place to look for contradictory data?

so..is the word "conscious" interchangeable with the words "self aware" so does that mean animals are less self aware than us... or that babies are of a lower order of awareness. what exactly are the implications?

Ok so suppose it's like saying that we only use one of ten blades in a Swiss army knife at a time. What are the different mental blades and which blade gets used the most and what situations do we use each blade for. Generally speaking that is.

I’ve met quite a few Islamic people over the years. Each one varies greatly in attitude, the same as any group of people. Some are wealthy and cultured... some are hard working, serious, kind, polite and look the other way when you hold up a girlie calendar as a joke.. Some are the typical hot headed young men, indignant at the slightest dig. ...but that can be found in any random group of people from any culture. Generally I have found them to have a great sense of humor. I'm especially impressed by architectural works like the ancient palace at Alhambra. please see: http://www.greatbuildings.com/buildings/The_Alhambra.html

See now I have heard of the fire bombings of the animal liberation front (seriously) but not much from Christian fundamentalists. what is the fundamentalist part about? is it a cut away from one of the mainstream religions...why did it cut away?

sorry...I was on a roll. Red corner as you well know has it's equally valid points of view.

See this it the right use of free speech…to hammer out ideas. Now ..backtracking a bit. In the Red corner we have a liberal democratic , individual worshiping view of reality. And in the Blue corner we have a god worshiping highly structured view of reality. Lets get ready to ruuuuuuumbbble. The Blue corner sees the slow creep of liberalism and godlessness creeping across the world via mass media and greed for power and personal wealth. This is seen as a direct threat to everything they hold dear. what do they do?

hmm.. alrighty then...let me just look down, God like from space, down at our little blue orb.. now.... who's troops are where.

How about this idea. You might have a deeply religious belief and loyalty to liberal democracy and free speech. That is like your religion. it's central to your identity. The turban folks might have a deep belief and loyalty to their mentor. it's central to their identity. So in the end it’s just your religion versus theirs.