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Congratulations good Doctor. Sir Bill Gates, Now what did he do again to get noticed? Oh yes changed the world. I see your point though… funny I just cant see HRH on a PC playing Doom. Opening scene Buck palace The Royal technology room next to the wireless. HRH sits with blue glow from PC screen flickering over the room. Queen,Calls to Buttler: Jeeves.... who made up this wonderful electric portal for spam and pornography? Jeeves: Bill Gates is behind it’s popularity mom. Queen: Never heard of him. Goodshow. Send him some mints with my kind regards then would you. Jeeves; He’s bloody loaded mom. Queen: Oh, well make it two boxes and put a knighthood in there with it ….

Political and all sorts really.. look at the Chief, what functions of the US admin/ Legis/ so on does he encompass... all of them really.

Quate syntax: According to what I have read, there were also people in these primitive cultures who made tools such as spear heads and such Yes , on the money as usual. I was thinking about finer levels of specialisation, but suspect it might be a distraction rather than a help. Size of population dictates the amount of specialisation. If you made spears only all day then you need a pretty big population to get away with it. And I was thinking if the magic man was the scientist as well. because they are just both really trying to understand and bend the forces of life that control the world - to give the group an advantage. I’m inclined to lump technology in with the magic man. And the spear… the warrior could be integrated into the hunter because the overall function is one of killing other living things for the benefit of the group. Ps The power struggle between the magic man and the chief is a perfect place for some one (micro primateus) to apply the church VS state struggle of the ages.

Me thinks distance will mean that a common governance between US and AUS will not be advantageous to either place. Can you honestly say that you want your tax dollars spent on the far side of the planet. Now Hawaii is a cool place to have because it's a great place to holiday and a nice tidy little outpost for other things.

So, I guess we will have to settle for Mexico? We do get a lot of oil from there. and labour at under market rates. because of...say it with me now.....cultural value variance. I think I'm getting the idea what capitalism really is . but don’t grill me on it just yet, it's still in it's primordial stages.

Idea! Imagine a really small tribe cut off from the rest of the world on a tropical island of some sort. Would it be reasonable to assume that in this situation, wealth and its relationship to a group could be clearly defined? I mean it seems like a simple situation to consider. ( has doubts) and therefore that nature of capitalism could also be defined? So what have we got. What basic divisions of labour. A chief, a Magic man. Hunters, Gatherers, dependants (formerly know as children). Where is wealth in this picture.

Individual Australian wealth has grown 80% in the last three years. Two thirds of that is in the value of their housing. On the down side, their trade deficit as never been worse. Seems to me that if you live in a house it doesn’t matter what it’s worth. Not at least till you sell it, and then where will you live? Maybe a tiny monkey will swing by for a comment.

Bernard , Bernard from "black books" isn't it? please explain how my oversimplification of the situation leads to errors in judgement. You could start with the cowry shells cast in gold by the ancient Egyptians , or from the Phoenicians crossing the Mediterranean to trade their purple cloth, or even throw in some statistics from the world bank on import to export ratios between nations… maybe even with Jesus throwing the money lenders out of the temple or the religious laws forbidding interest to be charged within certain groups…. I don’t mind what angle yo attack it from, any cohesive point of view on how capitalism actually works will be good. Perhaps the bell , the cannon and the steam engine?

The big kid got to rule the sandpit. Only a group of us would intimidate him into fair play. Some kids had a good lunch, some had none. We shared our lunch. We traded our stationary and bubble gum cards. We built sand pit roads and marvelled at the frogs as they emerged from tadpoles. It’s still the same, just concealed.

Tetrahedrite I absolutely agree. Were the problems with Socialism that it creates a few lazy people who exploit the hard work of others and loose incentive due to being given things for free? ( by any chance )

I kind of agree with you. I would like the world to remain full of lots of different cultures, as long as no one is really suffering in any one of them. My worry is that TV and Pop culture will make bland all these gems of civilisation.

ok ok you got me there, I should say microprocessor. You can put away those plans for three square acres of relays valves and home grown diodes now. You did strike pay dirt with one observation. the Beads and the Indians. Yes, a thing can be worth nil in one society, and a fortune in another. You can get really rich by transferring that thing over. As we speak the multinationals are using the” Manhattan island trick”. China labour cheap, USA labour expensive. It’s a cunning slight of hand that exploits the weakness in the way we value things and you know what, it’s not honest.

Why we cant fire people at wish? That is easy if you think about it. If Carl Marx had been happily working he would not have had the time to come up with the seeds of communism. Or for that matter if the balance of power and wealth in London (at the time) had been more even, then Marx would not have seen all the misery that caused his ideas (on another way to do things). Then the Capitalists in the US wouldn’t have had to spend all that money fighting communism, deal with Russia get all sorts of problems in the middle east by the deals they struck with local warlords etc etc . So in short, it’s more cost efficient from a capitalist point of view to keep the balance of power between the workers and the employers closer to the middle. In other words, your actions will always produce exactly what it is that you despise. Now that is funny if you think about it. well it would be funny if it wasnt true and tragic.

Oh Hi Albert. You are welcome to your point of view. it is very strong. have You had a personal experience of these problems yourself ? or are you supporting a friend? What do you think wealth is? and why would you co operate with a capitalist system? One thing I thought of is how colourful and interesting products become under capitalist competition. I don’t think we would have had the Beatles for example under a more strict system.

And just another angle of attack for those of you with an interest in evolution. Specialisation We observe this feature in the physical structure of animals, Banks noted this in his travels . It’s a big part of how evolution works. Specialisation was also big thing in Adam Smiths argument . He thought than rather than everyone doing everything for themselves, there was great advantage to be had from each person doing just one job. Division of labour. Thus getting really good at it and getting efficiencies in repetition and all sorts of other savings. For those sceptics amongst you try a test. Time how long it takes you to make one cup of coffee. then try making ten at once. Now imagine this saving on a grand scale. Smiths “invisible hand” may be another view of “the force of evolution”. Of course this is where the problem sets in. Once you divide labour, you need money to trade for the other necessities of life that you no longer produce for yourself. Then you need to figure out what a task is worth. This is where it all breaks down. And also eventually you can’t make a thing like a computer for example because of the level of specialisation that has occurred.

Syntax. Yes, in the general sense. But, in this sense it may be a more narrow definition. The Island for beads, huh. ? In contract law you can not make a binding agreement if you have specialist knowledge as to value and the use it to take advantage over a party that has not. It’s a void contract. Just like you cant make a contract with a drunk or a child. Well this thread seems to be stalling. What about an attack form a different direction. Looking outside man, do we see any ways of organisation in animals or insects that looks like capitalism or social structure. Wealth seems to be a social device related to power freedom and status. I know the Victorians were enjoying the notion of the bee hive being similar to human society. Especially the bit about the queen and the drones being different from the workers.

Ophiolite. A curiosity, The Count of Monte Cristo thought state of mind was internally relative while Marx thought the opposite. I think Marx often had no money. Back to your excellent definition. I fully understand what you are saying, I have a strong suspicion that it’s all just meaning created out of the way it’s being worded. A similar thing would be “what do they do with the holes in donuts after you have eaten the donut, They tie them together to make fishing nets” What do you think about the value of Newtonians profession, I see his value as far greater than that of a plastic surgeon, but hey, go figure the remuneration gap. Seems to me that the general public need a good slap with "the invisible hand".