Is there a sound reason for refusing to help too much with homework?

[Rasher Null]

If someone "does" someone else's homework for them, is that necessarily "bad"? If so , in what way is it bad? Couldn't it be good, in the sense that the helped person understands better?

[Strange]

They are more likely to understand if they do it themselves.

[Rasher Null]

Have you heard of Catch 22?

[Country Boy]

You learn mathematics by doing mathematics. not by seeing someone else do mathematics!

[StringJunky]

I agree with Strange: effort reinforces information retention.

[Rasher Null]

You learn mathematics by doing mathematics. not by seeing someone else do mathematics!

 

Really? So you were never impressed with Leibnitz or Newton then?

I agree with Strange: effort reinforces information retention.

 

Effort is great when it is achieving; not so great when it is like hitting one's head on a brick wall.

[Phi for All]

Effort is great when it is achieving; not so great when it is like hitting one's head on a brick wall.

 

A person might learn a lot the first time someone does their homework for them. The second time, less. Over a fairly short amount of time, we'd learn to take advantage of the savings in resources, and there would be little reason to duplicate the efforts of whoever is doing our homework for us.

 

We can be so smart we do dumb things.

[Rasher Null]

 

A person might learn a lot the first time someone does their homework for them. The second time, less. Over a fairly short amount of time, we'd learn to take advantage of the savings in resources, and there would be little reason to duplicate the efforts of whoever is doing our homework for us.

 

 

 

Are you saying nobody would be able to tell the difference between a person who had homework done for them, and one that did not?

[Carrock]

Are you saying nobody would be able to tell the difference between a person who had homework done for them, and one that did not?

Getting 100% in homework and 30% in exams might make someone suspicious.

[Rasher Null]

So what's the problem??

[StringJunky]

Effort is great when it is achieving; not so great when it is like hitting one's head on a brick wall.

You probably gain more from your failures than your successes because you are more likely to pick over the small details in the post-mortem; you ask "Why" more often and, ultimately, learn things at a deeper level later on.

 

 

So what's the problem??

In the long-term it means you'll be the wrong man for the job because you know nothing.

[Rasher Null]

 

 

 

In the long-term it means you'll be the wrong man for the job because you know nothing.

 

Fine. So homework assistance proved fruitless because of the system's safety net of examinations. On the other hand, intensive homework help might indeed improve some people's ability in examination.

In fact, there is a school of thought that says "homework" should be done in the classroom,. where there is a teacher to help .... and first encounter learning at home, where there is technology .....

Edited November 1, 2016 by Rasher Null

[Sensei]

 

Are you saying nobody would be able to tell the difference between a person who had homework done for them, and one that did not?

 

Somebody who is asking for help (on forum), should reveal what he/she did to try to solve question, and asking whether it's correct answer..

Somebody who is asking just for final result has none his/her own calculations..

Edited November 1, 2016 by Sensei

[fiveworlds]

Getting 100% in homework and 30% in exams might make someone suspicious.

 

 

Or that person mightn't have that great a memory. Homework is open book like most jobs exams tend not to be.

[Sensei]

Getting 100% in homework and 30% in exams might make someone suspicious.

 

So what's the problem??

 

Giving final answer for homework question, is helping in cheating.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Sensei

[Rasher Null]

It's not cheating if there is a separate test called "exams". Homework should be part of learning - not failing.

[Acme]

Fine. So homework assistance proved fruitless because of the system's safety net of examinations. On the other hand, intensive homework help might indeed improve some people's ability in examination.

 

...

When I found myself banging my head, I joined a study group. We did our homework together, but no one was 'doing the homework' for the others. Sometimes the group helped me get over obstructions (or I helped them), sometimes not. One-on-one tutoring sometimes works to learn too.

[StringJunky]

It's not cheating if there is a separate test called "exams". Homework should be part of learning - not failing.

WRT homework, if the help doesn't impede the learning then it's ok.

[Phi for All]

 

Are you saying nobody would be able to tell the difference between a person who had homework done for them, and one that did not?

 

I think you had somebody do your reading for you. That's not even close to what I was saying.

 

Your OP asked if the person who'd had their homework done for them wouldn't understand better, and I was just saying it might work that way the first few times, but eventually the person having their homework done for them (if that part worked out successfully) would put their efforts elsewhere. There would be no reason for them to learn the homework if they didn't need to, and there are plenty of other things to do.

 

And we aren't really talking about understanding here. The person would know the answer, but might not understand how it was derived. Trust me, as you experience more of life, knowing how to learn will show you the difference between being told what's right and knowing how to figure out what's right.

[iNow]

Homework should be part of learning - not failing.

So much wrong packed into so few words...

 

 

 

 

[hypervalent_iodine]

It's not cheating if there is a separate test called "exams". Homework should be part of learning - not failing.

 

 

It is cheating if it's assessable homework. The point is to determine your ability to do the work, not someone else's. Can people who mark your work weed out cheaters? Sometimes. If you have big classes it can be hard to detect things like collusion. Sometimes students will make it easy by making the same bizarre mistake, or by posting the question word for word online (not realising that the coordinators check and that numbers given are student specific). In one case I saw, there were two people who plagiarised off one another in an essay to the point of using the same cover sheet, and by an unfortunate coincidence, happened to be next to each other in the pile of alphabetically sorted papers from a class of 1500 students. Point being that often the only cheaters who are caught are the ones that cheat badly.

 

As to your original question: there is obviously a benefit to seeing a worked example of a problem for the purpose of learning. However, homework is designed to test your abilities and help you learn by doing, not by seeing what other people do. I can tell you from my experiences in teaching that students who only want you to show them the answer never learn how to come to the answer themselves.

[Rasher Null]

WRT homework, if the help doesn't impede the learning then it's ok.

 

That sounds about right to me.

 

Unfortunately of course, homework, and the education system in general, is not primarily about learning , but that is another debate....

[swansont]

It's not cheating if there is a separate test called "exams". Homework should be part of learning - not failing.

 

 

Failure is part of the learning process.

 

 

You learn mathematics by doing mathematics. not by seeing someone else do mathematics!

 

 

Indeed. Put another way, you don't learn to ride a bike by reading a manual and watching someone else ride a bike. There is no substitute for practice.

 

 

Effort is great when it is achieving; not so great when it is like hitting one's head on a brick wall.

 

Then you ask for help on how to get started. But even then, you aren't starting with nothing. You have equations and/or concepts that will apply. What we want is to know that starting point.

[Rasher Null]

There are scales of failure, ranging from arithmetic slipups to failing a three year course.

Small scale failures are essential to learning - and highly desirable. Large scale failures should not exist in a sane education system.

Something like the Khan Academy approach - where small "stepper modules" have to be truly mastered before taking the next module requires failing and retaking as normal and not somehow shameful. Where mastery cannot be achieved, then it is time to give up that particular line of study. So grades A-F are out, there are just passes representing mastery of modules.

[swansont]

There are scales of failure, ranging from arithmetic slipups to failing a three year course.

Given the context of the thread, one of these applies and the other doesn't.

 

Small scale failures are essential to learning - and highly desirable. Large scale failures should not exist in a sane education system.

Something like the Khan Academy approach - where small "stepper modules" have to be truly mastered before taking the next module requires failing and retaking as normal and not somehow shameful. Where mastery cannot be achieved, then it is time to give up that particular line of study. So grades A-F are out, there are just passes representing mastery of modules.

All you've done here is redefine the situation. Nothing has really changed.

 

I'm curious, though. Where does one take a three-year course (and, given the implication, where the only indication of failure is at the end)?