Can we accept as fact " that the universe is full of ' DARK ENERGY ' composed of a massive ,universe wide energy field composed of virtual particles ?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Having recently looked in to Lawrence M Krauss explanation of Einstein's Cosmological Constant as being composed of a universe wide energy field . And that somehow it is maintained by VIRTUAL PARTICLES.

 

Can we accept this as a reasonably established explanation or model of " SPACE TIME " ?

 

And ' If So ' , What are the implications of this ?

 

Mike

Edited November 2, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

Having recently looked in to Lawrence M Krauss explanation of Einstein's Cosmological Constant as being composed of a universe wide energy field . And that somehow it is maintained by VIRTUAL PARTICLES.

 

Can we accept this as a reasonably established explanation or model of " SPACE TIME " ?

 

And ' If So ' , What are the implications of this ?

 

Mike

 

 

 

!

Moderator Note

 

NO.

 

By this I mean: No, according to established physics, dark energy is not space-time, and

 

No, we are not discussing anything regarding space-time being a medium. You have had your shot at that.

 

The only line of discussion here is the connection between dark energy, virtual particles, and the cosmological constant

[Strange]

Having recently looked in to Lawrence M Krauss explanation of Einstein's Cosmological Constant as being composed of a universe wide energy field .

 

 

 

OK

 

 

 

And that somehow it is maintained by VIRTUAL PARTICLES.

 

"Maintained"? Not by any definition of that word I can think of.

 

 

 

Can we accept this as a reasonably established explanation or model of " SPACE TIME " ?

 

No. This is a description of the contents of space.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

OK

 

 

 

"Maintained"? Not by any definition of that word I can think of.

 

 

 

No. This is a description of the contents of space.

.

 

 

So where and how do the virtual particles , ' Figure ' in this universe wide energy field ?

 

Mike

[Strange]

So where and how do the virtual particles , ' Figure ' in this universe wide energy field ?

 

 

No one quite knows. The "zero point energy" that is represented by the virtual particles is much, much larger than the cosmological constant.

 

 

 

the discrepancy ranges from 40 to more than 100 orders of magnitude, a state of affairs described by Hobson and Efstathiou (2006) as "the worst theoretical prediction in the history of physics."^[1]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant_problem

[MigL]

Virtual particles are a manifestation of vacuum energy, as per standard QFT.

As such, they are governed by rules of QFT, such as the HUP, to 'pop in' and 'pop out' of existence, according to energy and time constraints.

If you model the vacuum energy with harmonic oscillators at every point in space, with suitable cut-offs ( boundary conditions ), you end up with values 120 orders of magnitude higher than expected ( I can give you a link to the calculation if you'd like Mike ), which certainly doesn't jive with the expected value for the Cosmological Constant.

 

Virtual particles are, in no way ( or definition ), a medium for this vacuum energy field..

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Virtual particles are a manifestation of vacuum energy, as per standard QFT.

As such, they are governed by rules of QFT, such as the HUP, to 'pop in' and 'pop out' of existence, according to energy and time constraints.

If you model the vacuum energy with harmonic oscillators at every point in space, with suitable cut-offs ( boundary conditions ), you end up with values 120 orders of magnitude higher than expected ( I can give you a link to the calculation if you'd like Mike ), which certainly doesn't jive with the expected value for the Cosmological Constant.

 

Virtual particles are, in no way ( or definition ), a medium for this vacuum energy field..

Yes, I would appreciate your Link , and any other insights into how ' Virtual Particles ' work around the universe. Several scientists , like Feynman, Dirac, and other current scientists.

 

I would like any information that illuminates what is going on from atoms to far reaches of space , along these lines .

 

Thanks in anticipation .

 

Mike

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

No one quite knows. The "zero point energy" that is represented by the virtual particles is much, much larger than the cosmological constant.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant_problem

.

This whole area of " zero point energy " , " virtual particles " , "cosmological constant " , all seems confusing . And yet the supposed energy involved seems to be potentially massive compared with the parts of the universe, atoms , etc that we think of as the 'normal ' energy in the universe.

 

Is there any reasonably comprehensible explanation of what is actually going on , or existing there ?

 

Mike

Edited November 3, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[MigL]

Sorry it took so long to get back to you, Mike.

( never seem to have enough time for anything these days )

 

Looked through my resources and the simplest/most readable I could find was a paper by W. H. Kinney of Columbia University.

'Cosmology, Inflation, and the Physics of Nothing'

arXiv:astro-ph/0301448v1 22 Jan2003

 

The section you want is 2.4 The vacuum in Quantum Field Theory.

 

It doesn't go into too much detail for the solution of the harmonic oscillator. the re-interpreting of the raising and lowering operators as creation /annihilation operators, nor with the fact that the integral over all oscillators diverges due to the non-zero ground state, but it does give a basic understanding and should be easy to find.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

.

 

DARK ENERGY - VIRTUAL PARTICLES - COSMOLOGICAL CONSTANT

 

So what is the connection between them ?

 

 

Is it that the Cosmological constant that Einstein Put in to make his 'sums work ' in his original theories

 

Is the same as Dark energy .

 

And somehow recent proposals introduce virtual particles to get rid of infinities ?

 

 

Mike

Edited November 5, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

.

 

DARK ENERGY - VIRTUAL PARTICLES - COSMOLOGICAL CONSTANT

 

So what is the connection between them ?

 

 

No one knows.

 

 

 

Is it that the Cosmological constant that Einstein Put in to make his 'sums work ' in his original theories

 

Is the same as Dark energy .

 

Apparently not.

 

See post #3.

Edited November 5, 2016 by Strange

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

(A) No one knows.

 

 

(B) Apparently not.

 

See post #3.

.

 

I cannot quite see what you are saying ,with this comment

 

 

----------------------------------------

 

Surely someone amongst the science community must have some idea as what is happening throughout half the Universe?

 

Surely , you must have something in your mind about something so foundational in the Universe

 

COSMOLOGICAL CONSTANT .............DARK ENERGY ..............VIRTUAL PARTICLES .?

 

Mike

 

Just your thoughts would be fine , even if you are saying you can not be sure !

Edited November 5, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

I cannot quite see what you are saying ,with this comment

 

 

What I am saying is that no one knows what the connection (if any) is between the cosmological constant/dark energy and virtual particles/zero-point energy.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_constant_problem

(I meant post #5, not post #3)

 

 

 

 

Surely someone amongst the science community must have some idea as what is happening throughout half the Universe?

 

We have a some very good ideas about what is happening through the universe. But this is one of the big unsolved problems.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

.

I have been researching this subject and have found citation from some respected scientists , that there is indeed links with the specified phenomenon , across the whole universe .

 

The Main Link , appears to be the recently discovered HIGGS FIELD and the HIGGS BOSON .

 

Apparently all four phenomenon come together to provide a very interesting description as to why all these phenomenon ' are what they are . And why the universe works the way it does !

 

See :- " The particle at the end of the Universe " by Sean Carroll

 

Chapter 8 " Through a broken mirror " page 134 - onward ... "

 

Here we see the argument , using evidence from the CERN project for the Higgs field , and Higgs Boson being fundamental and being instrumental in the production of a space wide field suitable for evoking many of the queries we have been discussing here .

 

Such as the origin of Mass , a universe wide Higgs field , large vacuum energy , dark energy , virtual particles etc

 

How this ties in with the subject of the thread , including' ( Particle Interaction, Universe wide fields , dark energy , vacuum , space , including what particles actually are, and how gravity actually works ?) .

 

This can provide an interesting discussion , in view of the recent PROOF of the Higgs Field and Higgs Boson ! From CERN . ( Collider ) . This is an exciting time !

 

Mike

 

 

Ps perhaps because it takes these really high energies to COLLIDE and work with the ' HIGGS BOSON ' and the ' HIGGS FIELD ' it underlines the sort of energy levels tied up in VACUUM ENERGY and HIGGS FIELD/ BOSONS

 

 

Nobel prize winner Peter Higgs

 

.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

The

HIGGS FIELD

 

Quoting Sean Carrol from " his previously referenced book " page 142 -146 "

 

142 .. Concerning Higgs " the most obvious effect is to give mass to the elementary particles of the standard model !

......

143 .."if you did not interact with Higgs , you have zero mass ; if you do interact with Higgs , you have a non zero mass , and your mass is directly proportional to how strong that interaction is . Particles like the electron , and up and down quark interact relatively weekly , so there masses are small , the tau lepton and top and bottom quarks , interact with it strongly , so their masses are relatively large "

 

144.. " The formula for the mass of a particle ,is pretty easy , it's the value of the Higgs field in empty space times the particular interaction strength, that the particle has with the Higgs.

 

146 .. Each group of particles , would be identical , if it weren't for the Higgs Background. This points to perhaps the most basic role of Higgs Field . It takes a symmetry situation and breaks it "

 

Mike

Edited November 9, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

I outlined what the discussion was to be about. Why are you now talking about the Higgs?

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

!

Moderator Note

 

 

 

The only line of discussion here is the connection between dark energy, virtual particles, and the cosmological constant

.

The reason I am discussing " the Higgs " is because Higgs appears to be the " phenomenon that appears to be what draws the aspects of " dark energy , virtual particles , and the cosmological constant , together . Or at least into some form of relevance , as far as I can make out . Whereas once only an idea, now with results from the collider at CERN , Higgs appears to be central to the missing understanding ? Otherwise these phenomenon are just ideas floating in isolation . Is that not so ?

 

I outlined what the discussion was to be about. Why are you now talking about the Higgs?

.

See above .

 

Mike

Edited November 10, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

Nothing you quoted links the Higgs to dark energy. If it's not part of mainstream physics, it doesn't belong in this thread.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

Nothing you quoted links the Higgs to dark energy. If it's not part of mainstream physics, it doesn't belong in this thread.

.

 

I thought the thing about the Higgs field and the Higgs boson , was that it had started to draw disparate phenomenon , together .

 

I cannot give the detail of this because , I am not an expert on HIGGS . I was asking the question , rather than giving the answer. The parts I have read about , definitely seem to be pulling things together , which previously were just accepted in ' isolation ' as read . ( as Facts. ) . I was rather hoping that others , much more ' versed ' than I , could draw some of these , aspects together.

 

Fields. Higgs field, connection fields . .... particles, Vertual particles, .....Vacuum energy, Dark energy, cosmological constant, .... Massless particles ....massive particles ....bosons , Higgs boson .

 

A lot of them sound as if they are in the same ' area' yet , or not yet linked .?

 

I would love some answers ?

Particularly on :-

 

A, ( ..........distributed Energy ) , B (.......... universe wide fields) , C ( ............virtual particles . ), D ( ...........Vacuum )

 

Mike

Edited November 11, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[swansont]

The Higgs is not dark energy.

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

The Higgs is not dark energy.

.

 

O.k. .... But is there any way , one does feed off the other ? ( a connection field .. A symmetry or symmetry breaking / broken symmetry . ( Invoking gauge forces, gauge invariance ? ) .

 

Or is this just a , complete - Unknown, at this time ?

 

Mike

Edited November 11, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Strange]

.

 

O.k. .... But is there any way , one does feed off the other ? ( a connection field .. A symmetry or symmetry breaking / broken symmetry . ( Invoking gauge forces, gauge invariance ? ) .

 

 

I am not aware of any such connection.

[Mordred]

There is some modelling showing a viable connection of the cosmological constant to both inflation and the cosmological constant. More research is needed to confirm. Here is the paper on it.

 

https://arxiv.org/abs/1402.3738

 

It goes part and partial to electroweak symmetry breaking for the inflation portion with the bare renormalized cosmological constant remaining.

" Miraculously, the huge difference between bare and renormalized cosmological constant is nullified either by the running of the SM couplings or by vacuum rearrangement somewhat before the Higgs phase transition takes place. This solves the notorious cosmological constant problem".

 

This is actually something I've been personally researching as the Higgs field is fairly recent. I was curious on its influence on the FLRW metric. Specifically in terms of its thermodynamics, it does contribute to the blackbody temperature under the Bose-Einstein statistics, but some of the properties I need to properly run that formula I've been having trouble finding.

 

 

In this particular case Mikes question is a good one.

The Higgs is not dark energy.

There may be a connection, but this statement is still accurate. Dark energy is a possible contributor to the cosmological constant. However its based more on quantum fluctuations. (at least on its original inception.) Its gets rather grey seperating the two terms.

 

Here is some additional papers.

 

https://arxiv.org/abs/1404.3817 this last paper shows that some fine tuning via DE may still be needed.

 

Here is probably one of the better papers on DE.

 

http://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=5&ved=0ahUKEwiIsbW1kqHQAhVK8WMKHZdSCfIQFggtMAQ&url=https%3A%2F%2Farxiv.org%2Fpdf%2Fhep-th%2F0603057&usg=AFQjCNE9xRUaTR2w3pnP5xp2NdsGEfs8Zw

 

Which if you look under the table of contents possible scalar fields is. In essence DE is a class of possible models that may or may not contribute to the cosmological term.

 

a) Quintessence

b)k-essence

c)Tachyon field

d)Phantom (ghost field)

e) Dilatonic field

f) Chaplygen field

 

Some of above in particular a) has been disproven.

 

Each and other coupled fields are detailed in the last paper which is lengthy but a good reference to keep handy.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Mordred

[Mike Smith Cosmos]

There is some modelling showing a viable connection of the cosmological constant to both inflation and the cosmological constant. More research is needed to confirm. Here is the paper on it.[url=https://arxiv.org/abs/1402.3738]https://arxiv.org/abs/1402.373

.

.

Thanks . Mordred , appreciate the comments and refs.

 

I am presuming your first sentence " There is some sort of modelling showing ......" That , You meant to put ' HIGGS ' in one of the ' cosmological constant slots ' ?

 

I would appreciate a confirmation there , otherwise it makes a nonsense of my comments ?

 

Mike

Edited November 12, 2016 by Mike Smith Cosmos

[Mordred]

Its a viable possibility that may explain the cosmological constant that requires further evidence. So your questions concerning the Higg's field is relevant. For making that connection +1

Edited November 12, 2016 by Mordred