Trump protestors

[Sensei]

Civil unrest, assault, burning private property, because some of the electorate didn't like the results of a democratic election.

The majority of tyrants and dictators were chosen in democratic election,

and then they destroyed democracy,

changed or dismissed constitution,

and gained full power over some nation.

 

There is plentiful examples of this in modern history.

 

You should use "democratic election" sentence more wisely.

It's way more important who is chosen.

Whether that person is good, or evil, or scum.

 

Voters don't know what intentions and plans have their chosen one member of parliament, prime minister, president, etc. etc.

And when it's clear what are his/her intentions, it's way too late for any peaceful reaction..

Saw Star Wars? Emperor was chosen in democratic voting..

The same with hitler.. The same with putin.. The same with erdoğan.. The same with orban..

Now they are saying "obey our rules, as we were chosen in democratic election!"...

 

Not saying that Trump has any chance to become somebody from their league. That's what we will see in the future.

But certainly he would like to. He is seeking for power and money..

Certainly not bothering about poor white people who unexplainably voted on him.

[Ten oz]

I find your incredulity misplaced. This was an election stolen, perhaps by the Russians, perhaps by the FBI, perhaps by the electoral system, but stolen nonetheless. Clinton won the popular vote, and may have won cleanly without Comey and Putin's interference. While I don't condone the violence, I approve the fact that Americans are protesting something that matters, rather than just sitting back and taking it in the keister yet again.

 

There are a lot of People who feel a need for change who were smart enough to know Trump wasn't the person to bring it. You're seeing a lot of Sanders folks who saw some very bright social promise turn into more conservative selfishness.

Thank you!!!

 

 

"For Immediate Release

DHS Press Office

Contact: 202-282-8010

The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts."

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national

 

"Shelby County v. Holder, 570 U.S. ___ (2013), is a landmark^[1]United States Supreme Court case regarding the constitutionality of two provisions of the Voting Rights Act of 1965: Section 5, which requires certain states and local governments to obtain federal preclearance before implementing any changes to their voting laws or practices; and Section 4(b), which contains the coverage formula that determines which jurisdictions are subjected to preclearance based on their histories of discrimination in voting.["

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_County_v._Holder

 

We know Russian entities waged cyber warfare during the election against the Clinton campaign. We also know there was a massive voter supression campaign. The NAACP file a lawsuit in 5 states cited changes to voting lawsuit designed to supress voter turnout. Trump won the Election with less total votes than were received by the last 3 presidential losers. Romney in 12', McCain in 08', and John Kerry in 04' all received more votes than Trump. Only 53% of eligible voters voted compared to 58% in 12' and 62% in 08'. Turnout was dramatically down.

 

It is absolutely terrifying! In the media I just see story after story about rust belt voters and Hillary inability to connect with average working class americans. Stories about the genius of Trump's messeging and framing of the issues. As if this was just a standard election and the candidate with better slogans won fair and square. Hillary Clinton won the popular vote and lost the electoral college in keys states by margins of a single percentage point or two. If voter supression effectively impacted even a hand full of votes per community; this election was stolen. Then there is the issue of Russian cyber attacks. Emails, emails, and emails were a consistent story all election. The server scandal bled into wikileaks, bled in to Weiner's emails, and etc. Much of that driven, illegally, by foriegn entities who clearly meant to influence the election and very well (almost certianly) may have. Yet everyone horrified by the prospect of President Trump is expect to just sit down and shut up. Trump won and everyone is just expect to respect that as the will of our democracy.It is not the will of our democracy when the vote was gerrymandered and the election narratives were hijack by forgien criminal attacks.

 

I largely agree with this sentiment, except for one caveat.

 

Trump and Pence are both climate science deniers and have said they will push back climate related legislation and maybe even the Paris agreement - which could have a domino effect on other world powers. It's already going to a rough ride even with such agreements in place - i'm not sure how much damage can be done in 4 years.

 

It's kind of like being in a car with a speeding drunk. I wouldn't care so much if i could i could get out of the car, but i'm stuck, so i just have to plead with the driver to be careful while they trump on about there being no evidence they will crash...

 

However, there might be a time and a place for violence but this isn't it.

When Bush came into office in 01' we (USA) had a surplus. By the end of Bush's first term we had a 600 billion dollar a year deficit and that was with 2 wars deing kept office the books. The actually annual debt was much higher.

 

Bush's first term: Dot com bubble recession which was intensified by 9/11 and led to things like an Airline bail out, we invaded Afghanistan, we invaded Iraq, Patriot Act (think wire taps), energy deregulation (think Enron), and 2 rounds of tax cuts that went directly to the rich.

 

Trump can do damage in single term. Bush's second term was such a distaster many forget that much of the damage was done in his first term. And Bush had been a Governor and was surrounded by experience people. Trump has zero government experience and is surrounded by misfists and outcasts. If Trump is able to pass even a third of his first 100 day "Contract with America" our nation will take decades to recover. https://www.donaldjtrump.com/contract/

[CharonY]

Ahhh Americans.

They're my neighbors and I love them, but they're not ones to pass up an opportunity to riot every chance they get.

 

But you guys gotta relax, and keep things in perspective. There are things that are way more important than this election. Family, health, your job, etc. all are way higher on the importance list. Life will go on, even with D. Trump as President.

 

And don't forget, in four years you have the opportunity for a do-over

 

There are actually at least two things with long-lasting effects: environment and SCOTUS.

[Ten oz]

 

There are actually at least two things with long-lasting effects: environment and SCOTUS.

Death is a long lasting effect. If Trump "bombs the sh*t out of them" as he campaign many will die. That has a long lasting effect too. If he repeals DACA and forces dreamers who have never known another country to leave that has a long lasting effect too. People (not you) are talking very casually about how much good or bad any POTUS can do. Lots of apathy.

[waitforufo]

"Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won." - President Obama

 

"“We’re not just going to be waiting for legislation in order to make sure that we’re providing Americans the kind of help they need. I’ve got a pen and I’ve got a phone,and I can use that pen to sign executive orders and take executive actions and administrative actions that move the ball forward..." - President Obama

 

They that sow the wind, shall reap the whirlwind. - Hosea 8/7

 

So why riots and protest? Its the same as it ever was.

 

[Arete]

So why riots and protest? Its the same as it ever was.

 

Trump is the most divisive political figure in contemporary American politics. He specifically targeted and vilified various minority groups during his campaign. There has been a spate of hate crimes against these minority groups since the election result was announced, so neither side of politics has a monopoly on antisocial behavior.

 

Are protests really that surprising, given the platform Trump ran on?

[dimreepr]

"Elections have consequences, and at the end of the day, I won." - President Obama

 

"“We’re not just going to be waiting for legislation in order to make sure that we’re providing Americans the kind of help they need. I’ve got a pen and I’ve got a phone,and I can use that pen to sign executive orders and take executive actions and administrative actions that move the ball forward..." - President Obama

 

 

 

Obama has been shown to be a benign force (some say for good), you're self interest may see it differently, but you can't prove otherwise even after 8 years.

 

All political thinking for years past has been vitiated in the same way. People can foresee the future only when it coincides with their own wishes, and the most grossly obvious facts can be ignored when they are unwelcome. - George Orwell

It is almost universally felt that when we call a country democratic we are praising it; consequently, the defenders of every kind of regime claim that it is a democracy, and fear that they might have to stop using the word if it were tied down to any one meaning. George Orwell

[Ten oz]

 

Trump is the most divisive political figure in contemporary American politics. He specifically targeted and vilified various minority groups during his campaign. There has been a spate of hate crimes against these minority groups since the election result was announced, so neither side of politics has a monopoly on antisocial behavior.

 

Are protests really that surprising, given the platform Trump ran on?

Conservatives wanted victory so bad they never stopped to think about the consequences that election have. We know Russian entities cyber attacked the Clinton campaign to influence the election. We can debate it is impacted the outcome but we do know it happened. Why would they do that? Why doesn't the answer to that question matter?

 

Yes, Trump won. Everyone was wrong and Trump supporters were right. In my opinion it is dangerously apathetic the way Trump supporters don't seem to care about any of the questionable things surrounding this election and just act as if this election was business as usual. It was not. We have have a President Elect who refused to show his taxes, had foriegn hackers helping him (not claiming he was plotted with with them but they worked to help him all the same), is caught up is a fraud case, has never worked in government a day in his life, has nurmerous international dealings and hundreds of millions in foriegn debt (he refuses to show), and etc. It is not equal to Obama's long form vs short form birth certificate or questions about if Obama secretly is Muslim.

[swansont]

 

So why riots and protest? Its the same as it ever was.

 

People will express themselves in protest, in accordance with their first amendment rights. They are not required to explain why they are doing so.

 

Protests have effected change in the past. Insinuating that they are pointless is factually wrong.

[waitforufo]

People will express themselves in protest, in accordance with their first amendment rights. They are not required to explain why they are doing so.

 

Protests have effected change in the past. Insinuating that they are pointless is factually wrong.

I find the protest highly entertaining. January 20 should be a memorable spectacle. I can't wait.

[Ten oz]

I find the protest highly entertaining. January 20 should be a memorable spectacle. I can't wait.

Why is enterianing? What exactly can't you wait for?

[tar]

Phi,

 

I looked at the popular vote and as of a few hours ago Clinton won by 217,000.

 

Minus California though, Trump won the popular vote, as as of now Clinton won by 26 points in California with still 1 million uncounted absentee ballots.

 

With 55 electoral college votes, California often puts the democrat over the 270 mark, and when they don't they provide the democrat with the plurality of the popular vote.

 

So saying that Hillary won the popular vote is true, but misleading if you wish to prove that Trump was not wanted by the American people.

 

If California is taken out, Trump actually won the popular vote by more than 200,000. Probably closer to 800,000. So although America often goes as California and New York and Illinois goes, in this case it is obvious that America, other than California, voted, even just looking at popular vote, for Trump. So if you want to respect the popular vote, of people, respect the popular vote of the people that don't live in California, and respect their decision as to what direction they would like to see the country go in.

 

Others on this thread have blamed the Republicans for fear and hatred and division. The Zenophobia, Racist and Sexist labels were placed on Trump and his supporters by Hilary and Reid and Warren. The fear of Trump is in their hearts, and is fostered by them in the hearts and minds of their followers.

 

If people are to be respected, respect the people of the 49 states that voted for the man, who is now going to be our president, and support him, as he is now all of our leader, whether we like him or not.

 

Regards, TAR

Edited November 11, 2016 by tar

[iNow]

Why is enterianing? What exactly can't you wait for?

Likely the opportunity to feel smug and self-satisfied while looking down upon the "others" and dismissing them as whiners and crybabies.

 

[mp][/mp]

So saying that Hillary won the popular vote is true, but misleading if you wish to prove that the Trump was not wanted by the American people.

Half of eligible voters stayed home and didn't vote at all. Of the half that voted, half of those went to Trump, half to Clinton.

 

Only about 25% of eligible voters supported Trump as president. It's misleading to suggest that Trump was wanted by the American people.

Edited November 11, 2016 by iNow

[Ten oz]

Phi,

 

I looked at the popular vote and as of a few hours ago Clinton won by 217,000.

 

Minus California though, Trump won the popular vote, as as of now Clinton won by 26 points in California with still 1 million uncounted absentee ballots.

 

With 55 electoral college votes, California often puts the democrat over the 270 mark, and when they don't they provide the democrat with the plurality of the popular vote.

 

So saying that Hillary won the popular vote is true, but misleading if you wish to prove that the Trump was not wanted by the American people.

 

If California is taken out, Trump actually won the popular vote by more than 200,000. Probably closer to 800,000. So although America often goes as California and New York and Illinois goes, in this case it is obvious that America, other than California, voted, even just looking at popular vote, for Trump. So if you want to respect the popular vote, of people, respect the popular vote of the people that don't live in California, and respect their decision as to what direction they would like to see the country go.

 

Others on this thread have blamed the Republicans for fear and hatred and division. The Zenophobia, Racist and Sexist labels were placed on Trump and his supporters by Hilary and Reid and Warren. The fear of Trump is in their hearts, and is fostered by them in the hearts and minds of their followers.

 

If people are to be respected, respect the people of the 49 states that voted for the man, who is now our president, and support him, as he is now all of our leader, whether we like him or not.

 

Regards, TAR

Lets take out TX and the bible then too. I have heard the CA argument other places and find it absurd. CA is the largest state in the country. It is the largest producer of agriculture, technology, has the largest GDP, and pays the most most in taxes. Why should its voted be counted any less that the one in MS and AL? Also, it is up to 400k now.

 

Prior to 2000 (Bush vs Gore) the popular vote and the electoral college hadn't been split since 1888 and now it has been split twice for consecutive Republican Presidents. Not impossible but a little suspicious and worth discussion.

 

How do you feel about Russian hackers cyber attacking one U.S. Presidential candidate in an attempt to influence our election system? How do you feel about the other candiated seizing on those attacks and incorporating them into their campaign. It is unprecented.

[waitforufo]

^ Likely the opportunity to feel smug and self-satisfied while looking down upon the "others" and dismissing them as whiners and crybabies.

.

Bingo!

 

Leaders of the Democratic party, Obama and Hillary, accept the outcome of the election. They are supporting the transition of power. They are acting like responsible adults. The cry babes and whiners are throwing temper tantrums. Wondering how blue they will get from holding their breath is hysterically funny.

 

Why can't I wait for the inauguration? It should be like a Roman spectacle. The triumphant trump parading past his vanquished foes who are holding a national cry in. What could be better. Real history before our very eyes.

[Ten oz]

Bingo!

 

Leaders of the Democratic party, Obama and Hillary, accept the outcome of the election. They are supporting the transition of power. They are acting like responsible adults. The cry babes and whiners are throwing temper tantrums. Wondering how blue they will get from holding their breath is hysterically funny.

 

Why can't I wait for the inauguration? It should be like a Roman spectacle. The triumphant trump parading past his vanquished foes who are holding a national cry in. What could be better. Real history before our very eyes.

"As a matter of fact our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down." —Paul Weyrich

 

Paul Weyrich was a Conservative Political Activist and co-founder of the Republican think think tanks Heritage Foundation, Christian Vioce, and Council for Nation Policy.

 

As in 00' low turnout, losing the popular vote, yet triumphant and gloating all the same. It is a matter of record that Republican work to restrict voting and supress turnout. It is understandable for the Majority to be a little upset when they lose this way.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Ten oz

[Delta1212]

I'm not going to pitch a fit about the fact that he won, but my eyes can't roll back far enough to express my feelings about Paul Ryan talking about Trump's "mandate."

 

If winning with fewer votes than your opponent is all that is required to have a mandate, the word has lost all meaning in a political context and now just means "win."

[tar]

Phi,

 

I have spoken to many who did not want either one. Including me. However I voted, non-the-less. If people stayed home, that does not mean they wanted Hilary. It probably means we had no good choice this cycle.

 

The electoral college gives power to the little states, so just a few people still get 2 senators. Arguments against the electoral college would be arguments against the senate, and arguments that we should just go by the house of reps or maybe just go by popular vote on each issue and bill, as we now have electronics that could quickly tally such, would be in play. But there are reasons why we have the senate, or England has the house of Lourdes.

 

Trump won the electoral college, and such will only become official on December 19th. Some electoral college votes could still be cast for Hillary, regardless of the obligation to vote as the state voted. Nebraska and Maine split their votes according to the results of particular legislative districts, every other state does not. I am a registered Republican in a state that nearly always goes democrat in presidential elections and did in this one. If I voted Trump, my vote did not matter.

 

I saw that news that Trump campaign had talked to Russia, but I also saw the same report said that Hilary people had as well. I am not believing that Trump is working with the Russians, and believe the Russians are just interested in getting the sanctions lifted and there is more of a chance that Putin will use Trump as a pawn, than that Trump is using Putin as an ally.

 

Regards, TAR

[Ten oz]

I saw that news that Trump campaign had talked to Russia, but I also saw the same report said that Hilary people had as well. I am not believing that Trump is working with the Russians, and believe the Russians are just interested in getting the sanctions lifted and there is more of a chance that Putin will use Trump as a pawn, than that Trump is using Putin as an ally.

 

Regards, TAR

DHS Press Office

Contact: 202-282-8010 The U.S. Intelligence Community (USIC) is confident that the Russian Government directed the recent compromises of e-mails from US persons and institutions, including from US political organizations. The recent disclosures of alleged hacked e-mails on sites like DCLeaks.com and WikiLeaks and by the Guccifer 2.0 online persona are consistent with the methods and motivations of Russian-directed efforts. These thefts and disclosures are intended to interfere with the US election process.

https://www.dhs.gov/news/2016/10/07/joint-statement-department-homeland-security-and-office-director-national

 

You can say that Trump did not work in collusion with Russia but you cannot deny that Russian entities cyber attacked Hillary with the purpose of influencing the election. Trump seized on it and promoted the attacks. That in and of itself extremely troubling and unprecedented.

[tar]

But still, in general about 50 million folks voted Trump and 50 million voted Hilary. Neither gives a mandate as to the direction Sanders supporters or Kasich supporters or people that stayed home, want to see the country go.

Ten Oz,

 

That Russia would want to disrupt our election is both disturbing and understandable.

 

That Trump seized upon the Wikileak stuff that embarrassed Clinton is politics.

 

His joke about Russia maybe having the 33,000 e-mails, was meant to point out that we might be able to find out what was in the e-mails she deleted, not that he wanted Russia to hack us.

 

Regards, TAR

protesters are good...burnings and breaking stuff and beating people up is bad

[EdEarl]

Trump and Pence are both climate science deniers and have said they will push back climate related legislation and maybe even the Paris agreement - which could have a domino effect on other world powers. It's already going to a rough ride even with such agreements in place - i'm not sure how much damage can be done in 4 years.

IMO, China will continue to increase its use of renewable energy and eventually eliminate coal power plants. I think India will continue as well. Since power from solar PV is now less than power from coal, most of the world will continue to install PV. However, the Republicans will slow conversion in the US as much as possible. If they put a high tax on solar PV from other countries, Tesla will sell solar roofs. If the republicans put a tax on all solar PV, they could stop the conversion. I expect businesses to lobby for tax breaks on solar and wind farms. They may make it too expensive for individual home owners to own their own.

 

 

There are actually at least two things with long-lasting effects: environment and SCOTUS.

I expect an assault on education to allow creationism, perhaps a constitutional amendment, and similar action on abortion.

 

Protests are an important exercise of political will, but the violence and property destruction is tragic and premature. At this time Trump hasn't done anything to warrant a revolution or any kind of violence. I hope the situation doesn't degrade that much.

Edited November 11, 2016 by EdEarl

[waitforufo]

IMO, China will continue to increase its use of renewable energy and eventually eliminate coal power plants.

Then why is China planning to expand coal power production by 20%.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-11-07/china-coal-power-generation-capacity-may-rise-19-in-5-year-plan

Democrats running a red scare. You people crack me up.

[CharonY]

The overall energy production is set to increase. But non-fossil production is going to rise by 48%.

[Ten oz]

But still, in general about 50 million folks voted Trump and 50 million voted Hilary. Neither gives a mandate as to the direction Sanders supporters or Kasich supporters or people that stayed home, want to see the country go.

Ten Oz,

 

That Russia would want to disrupt our election is both disturbing and understandable.

 

That Trump seized upon the Wikileak stuff that embarrassed Clinton is politics.

 

His joke about Russia maybe having the 33,000 e-mails, was meant to point out that we might be able to find out what was in the e-mails she deleted, not that he wanted Russia to hack us.

 

Regards, TAR

protesters are good...burnings and breaking stuff and beating people up is bad

Yes it is disturbing and undersatndable. It was also directed at helping Trump and rather than rejecting the help (Bush and Obama have rejected Jullian Assange) Trump embraced. That is very disturbing and not politics as normal. It is wrong to imply that.

[MigL]

Getting back to the topic, which is the protests, not the legitimacy of the election.

( if there is a problem with the Electoral College system, why does it only get brought up when Democrats lose ? And why was there no talk of changing it during the last 8 yrs ? It does seem a rather archaic system and maybe change is in order )

 

Most of the videos I've seen show a lot of younger protesters, a lot of high school age as a matter of fact. Given the fact that historically that is the demographic that is least likely to vote, Why do they feel they have the right to complain about the results ?

Instead of blaming our apathy at the results, why not blame the apathy of those who didn't bother to vote and caused this in the first place ?

If people were worried about a D Trump win, why such a low voter turnout ( lowest since '96 ) ???

 

It wasn't important enough for people to get off their butts and go vote, why is it, all of a sudden, important now ???