Would the world be a better place without religion?

[dimreepr]

The challenge with this position, of course, is that it's immediately and entirely undercut by the New Testament itself, the very book you're here suggesting we should all treat as gospel.

 

http://www.evilbible.com/do-not-ignore-the-old-testament/

Thou Shall Not Ignore the Old Testament: New Testament Verses Which Demand Following the Old Testament

 

I think it's an example of misinterpretation, for instance:

 

Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets.

 

 

Why would he need to say this if he wasn't accused of it?

 

I have come not to abolish but to fulfill.

 

 

If he understood what they were trying to teach,This could be interpreted to mean, we don't need to abolish their teachings if we can understand what they were.

 

One example of a similarity between the the books is the length of time Jesus spent in the wilderness and the time Noah spent on the boat; which coincides with the length of time it takes one to reset one's chemical rewards system, a necessary part of finding contentment.

 

The problem is, we no longer understand, the garbled teachings of the OT and so becomes a stick rather than the carrot of the NT.

the very book you're here suggesting we should all treat as gospel.

 

 

Not gospel, just a convenient path to follow.

Edited December 18, 2016 by dimreepr

[Itoero]

OK, so you object to the scientific method itself, at least i know where you stand.

 

Forget about religion for a minute, there is a far more fundamental point about confounding variables you are failing to grasp. You have basically just said 'yeah confounding variables might exist, but even if they do they will make no difference to my statistical inference'. Which means you don't know, at a very basic level, what a confounding variable actually is. Worse, you seem to making absolutely no attempt to learn. Even worse you are quite happy to nurture a hatred for a subset of the human population on the back of it.

I base myself on facts, you base yourself on personal beliefs.

 

One question about your idea concerning biased policing.

There is visually hardly any difference between natives from Italy/Spain/India and Muslim majority countries from North Africa and west Asia. So how do you explain the statistics from Italy, Spain and India?

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Population

 

"Only a tiny 3% of the world's Muslims live in "more-developed regions"."

[Prometheus]

I base myself on facts, you base yourself on personal beliefs.

 

One question about your idea concerning biased policing.

There is visually hardly any difference between natives from Italy/Spain/India and Muslim majority countries from North Africa and west Asia. So how do you explain the statistics from Italy, Spain and India?

http://wikiislam.net/wiki/Muslim_Statistics_-_Population

 

"Only a tiny 3% of the world's Muslims live in "more-developed regions"."

 

I said forget about religion. Your misunderstanding is far too fundamental to begin with a real example, you just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Lets's just deal with Xs, Ys and Zs so no one can accuse any one else of biases. Yes?

[Itoero]

I said forget about religion. Your misunderstanding is far too fundamental to begin with a real example, you just keep repeating the same mistakes over and over again. Lets's just deal with Xs, Ys and Zs so no one can accuse any one else of biases. Yes?

I know what confounding variables are. All variables are formed (indirect) by following the religion of Islam. Even the fact that people migrate is indirect caused by religion.

[dimreepr]

I know what confounding variables are. All variables are formed (indirect) by following the religion of Islam. Even the fact that people migrate is indirect caused by religion.

 

You're embarrassing yourself, a wise man knows when to stop digging.

Am I supposed to sit here in my little corner and say, "Oh yes, I just love all these wonderful and kind Christian people! I just love how they try to deprive me of rights, and try to deprive the rights of others. I just love how they think I'm going to burn for an eternity after I die, and that that's a positive and admirable belief to hold. They are so kind and so sweet and so wise. I just hate how bitter and intolerant of a person I am that I can't be just like them!"

 

Since you don't believe any of it, neither your right's nor your life is effected, in any way, other than just listening; why do you care so much what they believe?

[iNow]

Since you don't believe any of it, neither your right's nor your life is effected, in any way, other than just listening; why do you care so much what they believe?

 

Because they pass laws that affect and rather often restrict the freedoms of others. These beliefs don't exist in a vacuum. They alter the society we all share, sometimes to the point of war with those believing differently.

 

.

Edited December 18, 2016 by iNow

[dimreepr]

Because they pass laws that affect and rather often restrict the freedoms of others. These beliefs don't exist in a vacuum. They alter the society we all share, sometimes to the point of war with those believing differently.

 

.

 

Indeed and when one can affect their excess' one should, but since tantitump insists they're impossible to change, caring so much is very damaging, just not to them.

[Itoero]

You're embarrassing yourself, a wise man knows when to stop digging.

Seeing what kind of nonsense you believe in, I consider that comment to be a compliment.

[dimreepr]

Seeing what kind of nonsense you believe in, I consider that comment to be a compliment.

 

You're welcome

[Itoero]

You're welcome

I do not have any friends, do you want to be the first one?

[dimreepr]

I'd be honoured.

[Itoero]

thanks!

[Moontanman]

 

Does it really? It seems to me that in this day and age, at least in the west, it teaches them expectation which often leads to disappointment. It teaches them to live for tomorrow instead of enjoying today. It teaches them that stuff is important and leads to fulfillment.

 

 

Seriously??? The real criminal act is to deny someone contentment because you don't believe what they do.

 

 

No and as I am sure you are already aware of, I think religion is horse feathers, a parasite on the mind of believers. But to say I would take away something from some because I disagree is a lot like saying I wouldn't let two consenting adults make love in a particular way because I think it's wrong to do so...

Wrong because the great invisible turtle comes to me every night and tells me I have to stop let people make live while standing on one foot on fridays. Such people must be convinced of the unnatural horror such behavior! And remember that Earth Quake that killed 250.000 last year on my birth day? Yes, that was me trying to communicate how much I hate for people to expose their boobies.

 

So are we clear on this? No making love standing on one foot and no bare boobs shaking! Other than that I am a forgiving god and quite reasonable to get along with unless you do the things I detest!

 

dimreeper, it's not because They do things I believe god doesn't want them to do, it's because they try to change the laws of my country to make sure everyone does what they think is right or make sure no one can do the things they think god doesn't want them to do!

[dimreepr]

dimreeper, it's not because They do things I believe god doesn't want them to do, it's because they try to change the laws of my country to make sure everyone does what they think is right or make sure no one can do the things they think god doesn't want them to do!

 

Then do something about it, rant in the street if you feel the need, or vote; whichever you're most comfortable with.

 

Denying a hidden truth just because you don't see it, doesn't help anyone.

[MonDie]

Itoero, I would like to see sources other than wiiislam.net, a site dedicated to criticizing Islam and muslims. If the articles include links to better sources, then please provide those sources.

 

https://www.mywot.com/en/scorecard/wikiislam.net

[Prometheus]

All variables are formed (indirect) by following the religion of Islam. Even the fact that people migrate is indirect caused by religion.

 

What does that even mean?

 

And what do you imagine i mean when i say forget about religion for a second to consider the general case?

[Tampitump]

Do you understand the repercussions I would face if I were to come out in my hometown? I'll give you a hint. My best friend since childhood severed our friendship overnight after I came out to him. To hell with tolerance. I'm only intolerant to intolerance. As soon as confidently declaring myself a proud atheist in my hometown without fear of paying a price in ostracism is a reality, I will continue to treat the silly cult known as Christianity with scorn, vitriol, mockery, and contempt. You're correct that there is burning hatred in my heart for this ideology, but its not hatred of the people, and it didn't originate on my side.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Tampitump

[dimreepr]

Do you understand the repercussions I would face if I were to come out in my hometown? I'll give you a hint. My best friend since childhood severed our friendship overnight after I came out to him.

 

OK then, you can do nothing about it.

 

To hell with tolerance. I'm only intolerant to intolerance.

 

 

The only way to stop intolerance is tolerance; you win friends with bread and a smile, not a scowl and a bullet.

[Itoero]

What does that even mean?

 

And what do you imagine i mean when i say forget about religion for a second to consider the general case?

You just think that I don't know what confounding variables are and that I need more understanding to interpret statistics correctly.

A confounding variable is basically a variable which causes two unrelated effects.

The unrelated effects are in your opinion islam and criminality...?

Can you give examples of confounding variables?

By your logic, Islam is not the cause for Islam terrorism.

[Prometheus]

You just think that I don't know what confounding variables are and that I need more understanding to interpret statistics correctly.

A confounding variable is basically a variable which causes two unrelated effects.

The unrelated effects are in your opinion islam and criminality...?

Can you give examples of confounding variables?

By your logic, Islam is not the cause for Islam terrorism.

 

You keep saying you understand it but then demonstrate you clearly don't.

 

Yes but the confounding variable might be having an effect on two variables which are related. The doctrines of Islam might be having an effect on levels of terrorism - i'm not saying they are or aren't yet. But we need to consider whether there are other factors that are exacerbate or ameliorate this effect this. We have lived with Islam for over a thousand years and in that time it has been no worse than Christianity. There have been significant Muslim populations in Europe for decades, why has terrorism become a problem all of a sudden - the Islamic doctrines certainly haven't changed in that time.

 

To explore this properly we need to first determine what variable we think might cause terrorism in general (unless you think even drug lord terrorism in South America is somehow Islamic too). Poverty, displaced populations, education levels, unemployment, etc... The we collect a data set of all these variables. Then we choose a statistical technique beforehand and analyse them ALL IN ONE GO. No cherry picking, and you are cherry picking whether you realise it or not, which variables best support our biases.

 

Look at what the TheBeardedDude did in post 224. That's the best attempt anyone has made on this thread to actually provide evidence, even though PCA is a poor method in this context, especially to look for confounders, and the data itself is of questionable quality. I imagine the reason why he hasn't explored it further, and certainly the reason i haven't yet, is that even quick and rough attempts like this take time.

 

I'm planning on looking at the data soon, why don't you take the time and join us? We can begin by thinking about what variables may contribute to terrorism in general.

[dimreepr]

 

I'm planning on looking at the data soon, why don't you take the time and join us? We can begin by thinking about what variables may contribute to terrorism in general.

 

Inequality is most obvious, when a powerful community throwing it's weight around and meets an equal we get conventional war, if it's a weak community we get terrorism or, when we like them, guerrilla warfare or freedom fighters.

Edited December 19, 2016 by dimreepr

[Itoero]

You keep saying you understand it but then demonstrate you clearly don't.

 

Yes but the confounding variable might be having an effect on two variables which are related. The doctrines of Islam might be having an effect on levels of terrorism - i'm not saying they are or aren't yet. But we need to consider whether there are other factors that are exacerbate or ameliorate this effect this. We have lived with Islam for over a thousand years and in that time it has been no worse than Christianity. There have been significant Muslim populations in Europe for decades, why has terrorism become a problem all of a sudden - the Islamic doctrines certainly haven't changed in that time.

Because the terrorism/criminality caused by Muslims is on the rise. Those statistics are from before the European migrant crisis. Many millions of Muslims entered Europe, criminality will rise again. What happened in Germany is a 'nice' example of that.

 

To explore this properly we need to first determine what variable we think might cause terrorism in general (unless you think even drug lord terrorism in South America is somehow Islamic too). Poverty, displaced populations, education levels, unemployment, etc... The we collect a data set of all these variables. Then we choose a statistical technique beforehand and analyse them ALL IN ONE GO. No cherry picking, and you are cherry picking whether you realise it or not, which variables best support our biases.

In islam countries, religion is strongly related to socio-political issues. This creates imo people that are very susceptible for suggestion. It forms a breeding ground where criminality/terrorism are not as immoral like we think it is.

 

 

Look at what the TheBeardedDude did in post 224. That's the best attempt anyone has made on this thread to actually provide evidence, even though PCA is a poor method in this context, especially to look for confounders, and the data itself is of questionable quality. I imagine the reason why he hasn't explored it further, and certainly the reason i haven't yet, is that even quick and rough attempts like this take time.

 

I'm planning on looking at the data soon, why don't you take the time and join us? We can begin by thinking about what variables may contribute to terrorism in general.

I think wanting or proving your power or control can cause terrorism.

Terrorism might be considered to be an escalated form of 'hitting a person because he doesn't want to listen'.

[dimreepr]

Terrorism might be considered to be an escalated form of 'hitting a person because he doesn't want to listen'.

 

No... It's nothing like that, it's hatred, venting a frustration is fleeting even in the extreme, like riots; only deep seated hatred can inspire war.

Edited December 19, 2016 by dimreepr

[iNow]

This whole idiotic position being spouted by Itoero is a massive case of population/sample bias. He cherry-picks the handful of negative deeds and ignores the multitudes of positive deeds.

 

Muslims do good in these same countries being ravaged by a tiny handful of terrorists. The white helmets of Syria featured last night on 60 Minutes are a quick and obvious example (or, counter example, to be more specific).

 

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/60-minutes-syria-white-helmets-hope-in-a-hopeless-place/

[dimreepr]

One example of a similarity between the the books is the length of time Jesus spent in the wilderness and the time Noah spent on the boat; which coincides with the length of time it takes one to reset one's chemical rewards system, a necessary part of finding contentment.

 

 

A spoiled child suffers as much as an abused child: for instance Moses was raised by a rich family, much like Buddha, and much like Buddha he buggered off for a while, only to return with wisdom.

 

Ask yourselves this; given the miraculous and well celebrated birth, why did he disappear for 32ish years?

 

I suspect he was from a broken home, virgin birth be bolloxed, she got knocked up and lucked out because Joseph fancied her. So they buggered off because of the local gossip, or a roman census if you insist. Step dad Jo didn't like Jesus very much and mum needed him enough to turn a blind eye, Jesus spends the next twentyish years wallowing in self pity, then he happens to meet 'John the baptist' who said something that sparked his understanding, but only 40 days in the dessert sparked his enlightenment.