God be with us all...wherever(Amen)

[Chatha]

What I hate most is perhaps people making money by fabricating ridiculous ailments, manufacturing ridiculous products is no where near as ethically wrong. Examples of these somewhat ridiculous ailments proclaimed by the medical society are ADD (attention deficit disorder), CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome), depression, and dyslexia. To the medical society the universe is perfect and so should every human being, anytime a little thing is wrong with more than one person they call it a condition. These guys, these pretentious professionals declaring such flabbergasting ailments do not realize they are perhaps the least competitive and productive of all professionals. Engineers, dentists, lawyers, even sports athletes make a bigger difference in our society. Medical doctors are just there to sit down and collect their check when the time comes; they can't even cure the common cold after all these years. Pharmacists, a largely monopolized industry, are also just as inept to be honest. In all the times I have been to the doctors they have never known what's wrong with me and I usually recover myself. Howard Bloom, a sociologists, once wrote that the real reason why we go to the doctor's is psychologically satisfying, not on any medication premise. Fact, the food and drug industry is the most profitable industry in the U.S, largely because they manufacture and fabricate fallacious medications and ailments respectively, AFTER ALL ANYBODY CAN CREATE A HARMFUL VIRUS. To me the most unacceptable thing they do is making up conditions, It’s almost as if they invented humans, so the right as to what pertains to Humanity belongs to them. They can’t even provide affordable health care, but they can sure prescribe the conditions. Maybe there is an ailment afflicting the industry, maybe I should call it HB (Horseradish Bullemia). Rubbish Industry.

 

DOCTORS ARE HARD WORKING SORTS AND THERE IS NO FACT BEHIND THIS, AND IT IS WHOLY MY OWN OPINION. I AM BY NO MEANS FORCING ANYBODY TO SEE MY POINT OF VIEW

[blike]

Medical doctors are just there to sit down and collect their check when the time comes; they can't even cure the common cold after all these years.

Indeed. We spend 8 years in training twittling our thumbs and learning how to sign our name.

 

Enjoy your youth. Hopefully you never have to spend enough time in the hospital to see what physicians can do.

[swansont]

Indeed. We spend 8 years in training twittling our thumbs and learning how to sign our name.

 

I thought you were learning how to sign it illegibly.

[Dak]

Medical doctors are just there to sit down and collect their check when the time comes; they can't even cure the common cold after all these years.

no, they cant cure the common cold, or flu, or aids etc etc etc

 

but they can cure the plague, small pox, and a plethora of other bacteria and viruses.

[Chatha]

Enjoy your youth. Hopefully you never have to spend enough time in the hospital to see what physicians can do.

 

Give us a break will you, people have been living and passing on since the inception of civilization.

[Ophiolite]

I've tried and tried, but I have failed. I just can't see how Chatha is an anagram (or even an acronym) for Angry Young Man.

 

By the way Chatha, if it wasn't for the pharmacists and doctor's whom you decry, I would likely be dead. You correctly note that "people have been living and passing on since the inception of civilization", however I maintain a keen interest in remaining amongst the living for a while yet. So, feel free to rant away, just don't expect any agreement from me.

[Mokele]

Give us a break will you, people have been living and passing on since the inception of civilization.

 

Yes, except before modern medicine they passed on a lot more frequently, a lot sooner, and with *much* nastier aliments.

 

Your post is little more than an incohrent rant on a subject you clearly do not understand.

 

Mokele

[Chatha]

Your post is little more than an incohrent rant on a subject you clearly do not understand.

 

Mokele

 

Maybe I should give me my address because you are keen on discrediting me, you obviously know everything there is to know. Your pretentious statement doesn't change the fact that no doctor, and I mean none, has ever adequately diagnosed and cured me when I fall sick. Your other stament is an understaement in-line without proper insight. Years ago they had medical care in proportion to their time and need, agreed that millions died. Today we also have medical care in proportion to our time, but millions still die. Malaria, Aids, Cancer, Cholera, Haz mats, and fabricated ailments kill millions each year. The only thing I agree on is that todays medical workers work a tard harder than 1234 A.D, but then we didn't have so many synthetic and natural diseases. So my apprentice, its the same scenario. Same stuff different day

 

http://www.biblehelp.org/mortality.htm

[fuhrerkeebs]

Medical doctors are just there to sit down and collect their check when the time comes; they can't even cure the common cold after all these years.

 

Obviously you think they should be trying to cure the common cold instead of curing things like AIDS and cancer. Personally, I'm glad that there's no cure for the common cold yet, because it means that MDs are out there trying to cure things that actually harm people instead of something that makes you sneeze.

[Ophiolite]

Maybe I should give me my address

Curiously, this makes more sense than much of your writing.

Mokele, maybe I should give you(?)my address because you are keen on discrediting me,

No. He is keen on discrediting your the emotive, unsubstantiated tirade, that you seek to pass off as an argument.

no doctor, and I mean none, has ever adequately diagnosed and cured me when I fall sick.

And I have a ruined castle on the edge of my property. Does that mean everyone has the same? Clearly not. Your personal, anecdotal experience is not relevant to a scientific argument. I see three possibilities:

a) You do not understand the character of science.

b) You are being deliberately trite.

c) Self censored for libellous connotations

Years ago they had medical care in proportion to their time and need, agreed that millions dies. Today we also have medicla care in proportion to our time, but millions still die.

Millions die unecessarily not because of the failure of medicine, but the failure of the political will to implement known solutions for some of the illnesses you mention.

Medical care is proportionate to our need! Tell that to the those in the third world. Tell that to those in the US with no medical insurance and no assets.

[Chatha]

Obviously you think they should be trying to cure the common cold instead of curing things like AIDS and cancer. Personally, I'm glad that there's no cure for the common cold yet, because it means that MDs are out there trying to cure things that actually harm people instead of something that makes you sneeze.

 

Well I didn't know you read minds, fascinating nonetheless.

[Chatha]

“Curiously, this makes more sense than much of your writing”

 

We see things as we please, thank you

 

“No. He is keen on discrediting your the emotive, unsubstantiated tirade, that you seek to pass off as an argument”

 

Have I lied about anything? I do not chase my tail as in a dog so why do you crucify me when I try to forge a point. By the way an argument without emotion is a riot without a cause

 

“And I have a ruined castle on the edge of my property. Does that mean everyone has the same? Clearly not. Your personal, anecdotal experience is not relevant to a scientific argument. I see three possibilities:

a) You do not understand the character of science.

b) You are being deliberately trite.

c) Self censored for libellous connotations”

 

What is all this accusation, shouldn’t people be entitled to their opinion? I thought this was a forum. I am sure l am not the only one with this idea, best you make a public announcement on TV to the people of America reestablishing the medical profession’s credit, you are barking at the wrong end of the tunnel. I am not against science, in fact I study chemistry for a living ata a reputable institute.

 

“Millions die unecessarily not because of the failure of medicine, but the failure of the political will to implement known solutions for some of the illnesses you mention.

Medical care is proportionate to our need! Tell that to the those in the third world. Tell that to those in the US with no medical insurance and no assets”

 

So the cure to common cold is a function of political laws, so we may already have a cure as we speak? I am here to learn, not to argue, what exactly are you saying my friend? And obviously I am speaking for those people that don’t have too much stuff in their living room, the rich have adequate everything much less health care. Maybe you need the phone number of the doctor that wasted my time and money, You guys may actually have something going on! Cheers

[Dak]

Malaria, Aids, Cancer, Cholera, Haz mats, and fabricated ailments kill millions each year.

speaking just of aids (as its the disease i know most about), yes aids kills millions a year, but with modern anti-retroviral drugs ('nuces', protease inhibitors etc) an aids sufferers life-expectancy can be increased significantly, and, whilst we dont have the cure yet, progress is being made all of the time into understanding how the virus functions, and in developing ways to fully inhibit/cure it.

 

by-the-by, what is a 'fabricated ailment'?

[Ophiolite]

Have I lied about anything?

You present opinions as though they were facts, then berate others for not 'accepting' them. Yes, this is lying of the worst kind, for it is not distortion of the facts, but the dressing of opinions in a raiment they are unworthy to don.

[swansont]

What is all this accusation, shouldn’t people be entitled to their opinion?

 

You are entitled to your own opinion. You are not, however, entitled to your own facts.

 

You being dissatisfied with doctors does not mean that all (or even most) doctors are incompetent.

[Chatha]

You present opinions as though they were facts, then berate others for not 'accepting' them. Yes, this is lying of the worst kind, for it is not distortion of the facts, but the dressing of opinions in a raiment they are unworthy to don

 

I never asserted they are facts, just many of my experiences, the rest is obviously left to you. I berate those that berate me and call me names if you read the thread carefully. There are some things on this board that I do not agree on, but hardly do I label people and read their minds.

[Chatha]

The intelligent person hesitates, ponders, and wavers. The unintelligent never wavers, never hesitates. Where the wise will whisper, the fool simply declares from the housetops.

...osho

[Chatha]

Well ever since I was born; a family of 6, nobody in my family has ever been successfuly treated of any ailment, We pretty much wait for our immune system to kick in. Mnay of my friends too have the same cases, one in particular has sickle cell, who is so fond of being sick that we created a nick name for him, he was only 16 years old when we really interacted. My Aunt died of cancer (God rest her soul), my brother and sister of anemia or something like that. Don't worry I still have plenty of siblings. Anyway, why shouldn't I forge such a point, at least from my own point of view? So far no one in my family has passed on of any engineering miscalculations.Its a free country.

[Ophiolite]

I never asserted they are facts, ......

Get a f****ing grip, Chatha. Your opening post is laid out as a series of clear statements, as though you wish us to consider them as factual. Nowhere do we see phrases such as 'it seems to me', 'in my opinion', 'based only on my experience'.

You have deliberately presented a suite of provocative views as absolute truths. This is what has brought the reactions you have seen - not the views themselves. If you had said 'I haven't had much success at getting cured of anything by a doctor, how about you?' it may have initiated an interesting discussion. Instead you malign several professions with unsubstantiated opinions. Again, Get a f****ing grip, please.

[Chatha]

Get a f****ing grip, Chatha. Your opening post is laid out as a series of clear statements, as though you wish us to consider them as factual. Nowhere do we see phrases such as 'it seems to me', 'in my opinion', 'based only on my experience'.

You have deliberately presented a suite of provocative views as absolute truths. This is what has brought the reactions you have seen - not the views themselves. If you had said 'I haven't had much success at getting cured of anything by a doctor, how about you?' it may have initiated an interesting discussion. Instead you malign several professions with unsubstantiated opinions. Again, Get a f****ing grip, please.

 

Have you ever told your boss at work to get that grip? Better still go up to someone in real life and tell them that. You believeing me has nothing to do with my opinion and this is hardly the way to convince me otherwise.

[Chatha]

Instead of wasting your time on me and those who believe me, why not come up with defenses?Okay I assert, I have written Jargon and most of it makes little sense. But any defenses? If you cannot defend any accusations that does not make sense then there is a problem

[Dak]

keep it plesant you two.

 

Addressing your OPs (all quotes from chatha):

 

Examples of these somewhat ridiculous ailments proclaimed by the medical society are ADD (attention deficit disorder), CFS (chronic fatigue syndrome), depression, and dyslexia.

ADD is more than a bit of trouble paying attention; CFS is more than just being a bit tired; and depression is more than being a bit upset. for example, if someone went to the doctors and said they were a bit upset, they would get a medical version of 'there-there, cheer up'. if, however, they go to the doctors with clinical depression -- which has phisiological effects (loss of apetite, insomnia, immune collapse etc), associated psycological effects (memory loss, nihalism, overt and false shows of happyness etc) and is usually self-perpetuating, then they will be treated.

 

dyslexia, i have myself (albeit mildly). i do savvy what you mean. some people are bad at spelling, some people are bad at spelling and math, i am bad at spelling and speaking and everynow and then my ability to count or read will spontaniously disolve, and some people just cant read/right/whatever atall. so yes, down the lower end of the scale it is not a 'condition', other than the condition of not being able to read/spell/whatever very well, but at the upper end (more dyslexic than i am) it is a seriouse condition.

 

 

Engineers, dentists, lawyers, even sports athletes make a bigger difference in our society.

dentists are a kind of mini-doctor. most of them didnt do well enough in med-school to become doctors, so elating them to be above doctors is kinda erroniouse.

 

Pharmacists, a largely monopolized industry, are also just as inept to be honest.

there are many pharmasuitical jiants, glaxosmith-klein possibly being the biggest but by no means the only big pharm-company. the R&D sector is also far, far from being monopolised.

In all the times I have been to the doctors they have never known what's wrong with me and I usually recover myself.

maybe your local doctor is cack. this doesnt mean that they all are.

 

actually, every time iv been to the local hospital reguarding my guts, they have failed to work out whats wrong, diagnosing me with irratable bowel syndrome, which im well aware is med-speak for 'we dont have a clue', but this by no means indicates that doctors are worthless. by and large, they are very adept at what they do, though they do get stumped sometimes

 

To me the most unacceptable thing they do is making up conditions,

can you name a condition that the medical profession has 'made up'?

[Dak]

If you cannot defend any accusations that does not make sense then there is a problem

yes, and that problem lies with you. it is your responsibility to ensure that your arguments are clear and understandable.

 

i dont mean to be rude, but is english your first language?

[Chatha]

Obviously English is not my first language

[Chatha]

Dak

 

Thanks for your opinion, you have just stated that we have good and bad doctors, and some in between. I just happen to be one of those who believe that all medicine, both othodox and modern is inadequate for this reason. A more significant number of people passing away each year can be attributed to failing medical professions if you compare with all other professions. This alone is enough fact for my opinion. Also if you generate a progressive rate ratio of time/progress you find out that the medicals are far behind compared to Engineers.