Compressing atoms

[geordief]

How does this work.?

 

Is it like squeezing an orange,with the protons and the neutrons as pips?

 

Thanks .(I really know very little about this)

 

[Ophiolite]

We can compress atoms? If so my ignorance is revealed as being ever deeper. No surprise there.

[swansont]

You can induce e.g. a dipole moment with an electric field, in which case a non-symmetric distribution of change can be inferred. You can also change electron capture rates a tiny amount, meaning you've squeezed the orbitals such that an electron spends more time in the nucleus.

 

For more you will have to be more specific in the question you ask. A link to what you read would be helpful.

[geordief]

You can induce e.g. a dipole moment with an electric field, in which case a non-symmetric distribution of change can be inferred. You can also change electron capture rates a tiny amount, meaning you've squeezed the orbitals such that an electron spends more time in the nucleus.

 

For more you will have to be more specific in the question you ask. A link to what you read would be helpful.

I was wondering if it was possible. I did a google search and came up with someone asking the same question

 

http://chemistry.stackexchange.com/questions/9645/is-it-possible-to-compress-an-atom-to-infinite-density

 

My lack of knowledge led me to think it might be possible from some of the content of that page.

 

The reason I was led to ask the question results from a thread I opened very recently

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/100967-physical-demonstration-of-the-curvature-of-spacetime/#entry957482

where I was wondering about how gravity would affect density as a function of distance to or from the centre.

 

Since it seemed to be the case that this did happen , I wondered how far along the chain of make up of matter this compression would prevail.

 

I was not expecting any large compression to be possible (well it was the first time I had even wondered about it as I have extremely little knowledge of the contents or behaviour of atoms) but wonder still if some small compression might be observed before atoms are destroyed ,as they are in stars-and if this compression might also take place at the centre of the Earth.

[swansont]

If you add enough energy, the combination of the electron and proton becomes energetically favorable, and you form a neutron.

 

On earth, mgh over the distance of twice the Bohr radius is of order 10^-30 kg*10 m/s^2/10^-10 m = 10^-29 J, or 6.25 x 10^-11 eV. More than 11 orders of magnitude smaller than the ground state Hydrogen electron orbital energy. Gravity has a negligible effect on atoms.

[geordief]

If you add enough energy, the combination of the electron and proton becomes energetically favorable, and you form a neutron.

 

On earth, mgh over the distance of twice the Bohr radius is of order 10^-30 kg*10 m/s^2/10^-10 m = 10^-29 J, or 6.25 x 10^-11 eV. More than 11 orders of magnitude smaller than the ground state Hydrogen electron orbital energy. Gravity has a negligible effect on atoms.

From the other thread I mentioned I think the curvature of the space was perhaps of the order of -17 orders of magnitude (maths is not my strong point)

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/100967-physical-demonstration-of-the-curvature-of-spacetime/

 

"r_excess = G/c^2 M

ie r_excess = 10^-11 / 10¹⁷ M = 10^-28 M

 

The real imperfections of the earth would overwhelm such a tiny fraction - the difference is around one part in ten million million million" post#7

 

Would this degree of insignificance be in the same ball park to the degree gravity might compress an atom?

Edited November 21, 2016 by geordief

[swansont]

You aren't measuring the same effect, so the numbers would not have to agree. The GR effect is purely relativity— how much Newtonian gravity is in error on the scale of earth's size and gravity. The "squashing" of an atom is the effect of gravity in an electromagnetic system.

[sethoflagos]

 

 

Since it seemed to be the case that this did happen , I wondered how far along the chain of make up of matter this compression would prevail.

 

I was not expecting any large compression to be possible (well it was the first time I had even wondered about it as I have extremely little knowledge of the contents or behaviour of atoms) but wonder still if some small compression might be observed before atoms are destroyed ,as they are in stars-and if this compression might also take place at the centre of the Earth.

 

On the less extreme scales, maybe we can see the density of a standard crustal mineral like alpha-quartz (2.648 g/cm3) being fixed by a balance between inward compressive forces like electrostatic attraction and pressure, and outward expansive forces like thermal vibration and electron degeneracy pressure.

 

If we increase the forces of expansion by heating, we eventually find new equilibrium crystal structures with lower density: beta-quartz (2.533 g/cm3) ; alpha-tridymite (2.265 g/cm3).

 

But increase the pressure substantially and (with no nett change in chemical composition) we get stuff like coesite (2.911 g/cm3) and above 40 GPa, seifertite (4.294 g/cm3).

 

Each subtle change of crystal geometry asking more questions of the constrained electrons to maintain their unique quantum

states.

 

40 GPa is comfortably achieved in the earth's interior, so there is, here and there, geological evidence for their natural occurrence. Presumably the process continues at astronomical pressures until all electron quantum states are fully occupied

and it's next stop, neutronium.

 

Btw, this was a question. I don't actually know any of this stuff

[swansont]

 

40 GPa is comfortably achieved in the earth's interior, so there is, here and there, geological evidence for their natural occurrence. Presumably the process continues at astronomical pressures until all electron quantum states are fully occupied

and it's next stop, neutronium.

 

 

The degeneracy pressure for atom collapse to neutronium is at the Chandrasekhar limit, which is ~1.39 solar masses. So the pressure at the core of the sun, ~2.5 x 10^17 Pa (25 PPa), is below this limit