Trump's cabinet and inner circle

[CharonY]

It has been said by many (among them, Barack Obama) that Trump is not an ideologue, which is a rather hopeful statement, considering the things he said and declared to do since the start of his campaign. As such, it is interesting to take a look at those that he surrounds himself with, as they will most likely be extremely influential in the way his policies.

 

This is especially interesting as during the campaign he has allegedly promised Kasich significant influence on domestic and foreign policy as a VP. It can therefore be speculated that Pence may play a significant role. It is quite worrisome that Bannon has become the chief strategist as he has turned his media outlet into basically a white supremacist site (his personal stance is a bit more complicated, but he certainly does not denounce the movement he is catering for). Priebus is more mainstream conservative as chief of staff.

 

While he has run a campaign of anti-establishment and catering for the working class, his cabinet picks are anything but that. Former Goldman Sach banker Mnuchin will join the Treasury Department, for example. A complete list of current picks can be found here. So what do you make of it? There are some unusual picks, for sure (Bannon, potentially Carson) but for the most part how different do you think it would have been from a more mainstream conservative? Does this assuage your worries about a Trump presidency or worsen them?

[Ten oz]

Trump may not be an ideolog but he is a narcissist who lacks any moral compass. I think everyone is currently working very hard to give him a chance. Out of respect for our system of government everyone is working much harder than is he (Trump) to bridge divides.

 

Personally I think it is the wrong approach. His picks thus far are problematic. For example Sessions (an often accused bigot) in the DOJ during a time of racial struggle and protests regarding the treatment of minorities by law enforcement is a terrible choice. Tapping someone for intelligence like Flynn who engages in conspiracy theories is a terrible idea. Climate change denier at the EPA is a terrible idea. Meanwhile his recent provocations of China so either a dangerously low understanding of foriegn policy or a dangerously aggressive posture towards China.

 

To date, in my opinion, Trump's picks and choices as a President Elect have not provided me any comfort.

[rangerx]

To date, in my opinion, Trump's picks and choices as a President Elect have not provided me any comfort.

 

Rather than draining the swamp, he's adding alligators instead.

[iNow]

He put Ben Carson in charge of Housing and Urban Development (HUD) because he once lived in a city as a child. Satire's got nothin' on reality these days.

[TheBeardedDude]

He put a creationist in charge of the Department of Education. A person who wants to inject religion into our education system. He is filling his cabinet with the most unqualified people.

 

I sincerely think the reason he has picked most of the people he has is so that he can fire them later and do two things:

1) by hiring then firing establishment conservatives, he can say that he gave them one last chance and now he is "draining the swamp" by firing them

2) firing them allows him to pass blame for his inevitable failures

[CharonY]

I am also worried about Ben Carson in HUD. It is a major influence against poverty. Now Carson said himself that he lacks administrative experience (which he has in common with Trump) but also was critical to the mission of the department that he is now heading.

[Ten oz]

I am also worried about Ben Carson in HUD. It is a major influence against poverty. Now Carson said himself that he lacks administrative experience (which he has in common with Trump) but also was critical to the mission of the department that he is now heading.

Trump is chatting with Taiwan and angry tweeting about China. I don't like Carson at HUD but it is small fish. Conservatives don't like poor people and conflate all people in need with any gov't assistance with minorities . I don't like it but it is the reality. Whether is is Carson or anyone else HUD's future is bleak. I know that. It isn't the wild card threat a Trump Admin is bring into the White House. My concerns about international conflict, Soc Sec rading/reform, and a police state are currently more pressing.

 

Trump is starting friction with China and we have nurmerous questions about his conflicts of interest and nothing has even happened yet. Every POTUS faces terror attacks. What will Trump's team of "experts" do when face with an emergency? Flynn, Mattis, Sessions, Bannon, and etc are not the type of people I feel comfortable have whispering in the Presidents ear follong the next 9/11, Benghazi, Boston Bombing, Oklahoma City, or etc. I can live with Carson at HUD. Better Carson at HUD than at DHS, CIA, or so on.

[iNow]

That actually highlights part of the problem. He does such extreme and outlandish things and spouts such obvious nonsense that we're normalizing it and becoming desensitized to and far too accepting of the other stuff (like saying, "Ben Carson ain't so bad when considered relative to his other crazy stuff."

[StringJunky]

That actually highlights part of the problem. He does such extreme and outlandish things and spouts such obvious nonsense that we're normalizing it and becoming desensitized to and far too accepting of the other stuff (like saying, "Ben Carson ain't so bad when considered relative to his other crazy stuff."

This is going to be the new 'normal' for the next four years.

[Ten oz]

That actually highlights part of the problem. He does such extreme and outlandish things and spouts such obvious nonsense that we're normalizing it and becoming desensitized to and far too accepting of the other stuff (like saying, "Ben Carson ain't so bad when considered relative to his other crazy stuff."

I see it more as a pick ones battle sort of thing. Trump supports tolerate his behavior. They are dismissive of everything he does. Some out of spite and other out of a naive belief that who the President is doesn't really make much of a difference. Those who attempt to sound the alarm about Trump must do so precisely. If everthing is treated as important than nothing is important as the saying goes. While it is true that Trump does something egregious everyday pointing it out everyday just creates background noise for those who aren't paying close attention (majority of the country).

 

Carson at the HUD is terrible but not terrifying. Gen. Kelly at DHS is terrifying. DHS is a law enforcement agency. The Marines have no law enforcement authority over civilians in the U.S.. They are a combat agency and Kelly's experience is in dealing with enemy combatants Johnson, Napolitano, Chertoff, Ridge, all the previous DHS Sec. had experience as Federal prosecutors and U.S. Attorney's. DHS Sec. is a legal position. Appointing a General to DHS is just another display of Trump's authoritarian understanding of gov't. He sees himself as a dictator. He doesn't view law as something to be understand and protected but rather as something to be wielded. Law isn't a blind scale but rather something more akin to King's Author's sword and only he was able to pull it from the stone.

 

Carson at HUD is bad. I don't want to make light of that but the truth is, I believe, that the overwhelming majority of the country have no idea what HUD is and dont care who runs it. There are too many other battles to be had. People have sort attention spans.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Ten oz

[iNow]

I see it more as a pick ones battle sort of thing.

Understood, though this ultimately reinforces my core point. Without all of the extreme bullshit, we could pick the battle of getting someone more qualified at HUD (or any of the other positions, really, like the creationist at dept of education and the climate change denier as head of EPA, among other things). Since he's also talking about banning all muslims and taking away citizenship for lighting a piece of cloth on fire, we need to focus there instead. Our resources and time are not unlimited. It's zero sum, and he's ensuring stuff we'd normally focus upon is simply forgotten and brushed aside.

[Ten oz]

Understood, though this ultimately reinforces my core point. Without all of the extreme bullshit, we could pick the battle of getting someone more qualified at HUD (or any of the other positions, really, like the creationist at dept of education and the climate change denier as head of EPA, among other things). Since he's also talking about banning all muslims and taking away citizenship for lighting a piece of cloth on fire, we need to focus there instead. Our resources and time are not unlimited. It's zero sum, and he's ensuring stuff we'd normally focus upon is simply forgotten and brushed aside.

I am a registered Democrat. We lost. Being displeased with a Republicans cabinet picks is unfortunately par for the course. Regardless of which Republican were preparing to enter office I would be left unhappy by their picks. I thought John Ashcroft and Alberto Gonzales were terrible attorney general and I suspect Sessions will be too. Is Trump worse, I think so. However I don't feel Carson at HUD is any more egregious that Michael Brown as head of FEMA or Bolton at the U.N. was. With Bush we were all stuck picking our battle too.

 

Democrats believe in governement. A functioning gov't is required for the Democratic party's platform to stand a chance. They attempt to pratice gov't honestly. The GOP do not believe in governement beyond the influence it provides them in any situation. They view a function government as an impediment to the things which matter to them personally and as such practice it dishonstly. Democrats simply can't compete with the level of obstruction, denial, and subversion the right deals in. Trump is a manifestation of this and not it architect. The same hypocritical pool of bigotry and selfishness that spawned the Tea Party gave rise to Trump.

 

You are right that Trump is worse. However I believe we have been in this situation for some time. It is why Demorcats lost 900 seats during Obama's admin, still are left fighting climate change denial, evolution, and every other sort of basic fact from the employment rate to whether crime has been rising or falling. In my opinion the time for debating the right is over. They have proved time and time again debate is just a ploy to them. Someone to spin the wheels while they proceed to do whatever they alsways intended regardless of the debates outcome or facts revealed. Democrats need to focus on actionable things. Focus on what they can do rather than waste time discussing what is right and wrong. The right doesn't care what is right or wrong.

 

How does that apply to cabinet picks; Mattis needs a waiver and Democrats in Congress should do everything possible to stop him from getting one(GOP has already slipped it into a spending bill).

[iNow]

To be clear, I had no intention of limiting my point to cabinet picks. The point is, we're letting various behaviors and actions slide that we wouldn't otherwise let slide.

Edited December 8, 2016 by iNow

[Ten oz]

To be clear, I had no intention of limiting my point to cabinet picks. The point is, we're letting various behaviors and actions slide that we wouldn't otherwise let slide.

I agree, but this is not unusual as some (not you alone) are implying. Bush tortured. Had his AG write a memo saying it was okay. Bush opened Gitmo and just said that because the inmates didn't fight for a flag they had no rights. Bush wiretapped without warants and then after the fact went and got warrants. All of those actions are unconstitutional. Obama would have been impeached then any one of those types of things.

 

Then there is the whole matter of lying us into war. Making loose connections he and his cabinet knew weren't true between Iraq and Al Quada, claiming Iraq may have nuclear material, pressuring and or paying our allies to support us then domagoguing the ones that refused like France. Do you remember "freedom fries" to replace french fries? In the midst of that he pushed through a massive tax cut that mostly went to the rich and etc, etc, etc, etc.

 

What is happening is not novel. The GOP does this. They play be different rules. They push the scales so far over to their side that otherwise fringe behavior become standard. This has happened before Trump.This is all very reminiscent of what we saw during the Bush and Reagan administrations. Trump himself is more dangerous in my opinion but this "letting various behaviors and actions slide", welcome to having a Republican back in office. This is what happens.

Edited December 8, 2016 by Ten oz

[iNow]

Indeed, and Trump's not even President yet. Just wait until he's actually in office and has some true power.

[Ten oz]

Indeed, and Trump's not even President yet. Just wait until he's actually in office and has some true power.

Bingo, it keeps me up at night the way people keep insisting that once in office Trump will change for the better. Makes zero sense to me. Clintomn popular vote lead is up to 2.7 million and will probably finish at 3 million yet Trump is on a victory tour telling audiences who are still chatting "lock her up" how huge his victory was. Trump know no modesty. More power will not humble him.

[iNow]

Clinton popular vote lead is up to 2.7 million and will probably finish at 3 million yet Trump is on a victory tour telling audiences who are still chatting "lock her up" how huge his victory was. Trump know no modesty. More power will not humble him.

Worse still, he's claiming to have a mandate. Those who think he'll change are peddling in fantasy and wish thinking. I see more insomnia in your future.

[CharonY]

After a review of the latest appointments things look kinda bleak as even in cases where he appointed mainstream politicians he seems to put them into the wrong roles. Such as putting a climate change denier and anti-EPA activist Pruitt as director of the EPA...

So far it seems to me that Elaine Chao as Transportation Secretary is not at least somehow problematic (to my knowledge). Is there anyone else? It seems that that list is going to be considerably shorter.

[iNow]

Elaine Chao as Transportation Secretary...

You mean wife of Senate Majority Leader, Mitch McConnell, former Wells Fargo board member during the exact years they were opening scores of fake accounts, and former Director with Rupert Murdoch's News Corp? Yeah, nothin' to worry about there...

 

http://money.cnn.com/2016/12/07/investing/elaine-chao-trump-wells-fargo-transportation/

[CharonY]

Well, that takes care of that, I suppose. Mind you, being the wife of Mitch McConnell would probably not be a huge issue in itself, considering the latter is certainly GOP establishment (and it is kind of expected that the cabinet would be stocked with people with ties to the GOP. Wells Fargo is more of an issue and definitely runs counter to the drain the swamp narrative (and which I was not aware of). However, given the amount of conflict of interest in the other cases it still looks to me that it is one of the tamer choices (unless it becomes apparent that she actually encouraged the fake account thing). Unless of course, it turns out that she got her hands in companies that would potentially benefit from potential actions as transportation secretary.

Edited December 9, 2016 by CharonY

[iNow]

Yeah, in the grand scheme of things, she's not as bad as the others. See also: My exchange with Ten Oz above...

[CharonY]

Yeh, seems to be a re-occurring theme.

[Ten oz]

After a review of the latest appointments things look kinda bleak as even in cases where he appointed mainstream politicians he seems to put them into the wrong roles. Such as putting a climate change denier and anti-EPA activist Pruitt as director of the EPA...

So far it seems to me that Elaine Chao as Transportation Secretary is not at least somehow problematic (to my knowledge). Is there anyone else? It seems that that list is going to be considerably shorter.

Wrong roles to you and I but not to a conservative:

 

"Approximately 80 percent of our air pollution stems from hydrocarbons released by vegetation. So let's not go overboard in setting and enforcing tough emission standards for man-made sources". Ronald Reagan, Sierra (10 September 1980

 

"I have flown twice over Mount ST. Helen's. I'm not a scientist and I don't know the figures, but I have a suspicion that one little mountain out there, in these last several months, has probably released more sulfur dioxide into the atmosphere than has been released in the last ten years of automobile driving or things of that kind".Ronald Reagan, Time magazine (20 October 1980

 

"Evolution has in recent years been challenged in the world of science and is not yet believed in the scientific community to be as infallible as it once was believed. But if it was going to be taught in the schools, then I think that also the biblical theory of creation, which is not a theory but the biblical story of creation, should also be taught". Ronald Reagan Dallas, Texas. (22 August 1980)

 

"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." January 20, 1981

 

 

Ronald Reagan is viewed as a one of our better Presidents in history (no by me). Ronald Reagan is not considered a partisan figure. Reagan won 51% and 59%of the popular vote in 80' and 84', He was well liked. He didn't believe in evolution, climate change, felt the govt was a burden on people rather than a system of support and etc. His model is the model Republicans continue to follow today. They think the EPA is a burden. Of course Trump's EPA pick is one who has campaigned against the EPA. They think Jesus and not science belongs in classrooms and that their children shouldn't be force to attend school with kids from poor families or families of color. Of course Trump's pick for education is a religious fundamentalist that pushes private religious education.

 

If we look back at our last Republican President, George W Bush, we see a similar trend. No child left behind was his signature policy. It encouraged vochers for kids to attend private schools and defunded schools that had low test test score. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Child_Left_Behind_Act

Then there was the "Spellings commission" which sought to revamp higher education. The focus was for Universities to focus on skills industries wanted and standardize the process. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commission_on_the_Future_of_Higher_Education

 

Meanwhile Bush sought to open the Artic Refuge for drilling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arctic_Refuge_drilling_controversy

He also lift his father's ban of offshore drilling https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_offshore_drilling_debate

 

This is what Republicans do when in office. The undermine the EPA, undermine education, undermine nearly everthing because they do not want government (the people) empowered to make decisions or the function successfully enough as to appear useful. Eight years of Obama legitimately striving to make government work has made many forget that a working gov't is not a goal Republicans are interested is.

 

Yes, Trumps picks are terrible. Trump himself as a pick to be POTUS is terrible. This is what Republican leadership looks likes. Drink it in.

[iNow]

Former Texas Governor, Rick Perry, was just picked to lead the Department of Energy.

 

This department is interestingly one of the 3 that Perry vowed to eliminate during a 2011 presidential debate. It was the one he couldn't remember. Oops...

 

http://www.vox.com/energy-and-environment/2016/12/13/13936210/rick-perry-energy-department-trump

“And I will tell you,” Perry said, “it is three agencies of government when I get there that are gone. Commerce, Education, and the … what's the third one there? Let's see."

 

Then he stumbled. He couldn’t remember the third. When coaxed by other candidates and the moderator — did he mean the EPA, maybe? — he drew a blank. “Sorry,” he said as he grinned sheepishly at the cameras. “Oops.”

 

A few minutes later, Perry remembered — it was the Department of Energy he wanted to get rid of! That was it.

 

That brain fart ended Perry’s presidential aspirations in 2012. But it wasn’t the end of the story: On Tuesday, Donald Trump picked Rick Perry to lead the Energy Department, the very agency he once kinda sorta wanted to get rid of. And, while it’s not clear that Perry still wants to abolish the DOE, the climate-denying, fossil-fuel loving governor from Texas is likely to usher in major changes to this key agency.