Looking for scientists for serious project.

[DrKrettin]

You need to get 30 people willing to be in the study. You need them to perform some activity to a statistically valid baseline.

 

My guess is that 30 is way too low to get any meaningful result, given the subjective nature of what is being measured and the different ways people might react to the pep talks with and without "the message"

 

Given the prospect of winning a million dollars from Randi, a sponsor and a lot more volunteers should be easy to find

Edited December 5, 2016 by DrKrettin

[ἀγάπ]

 

 

Given the prospect of winning a million dollars from Randi, a sponsor and a lot more volunteers should be easy to find

 

This "contest" is about super-natural powers. I do not know how much about them nor I have them. I only realized there exists some energy which can gives us freedom from many struggles and uses can be not limited to health and well being.

[Phi for All]

 

My guess is that 30 is way too low to get any meaningful result, given the subjective nature of what is being measured and the different ways people might react to the pep talks with and without "the message"

 

I disagree, but only because the claim is so extraordinary. If even a few of the subjects were able to run 50-80% faster, or throw a ball 50-80% farther, it would signal that something seemingly supernatural was going on.

[Bignose]

My guess is that 30 is way too low ...

Hence why my full quote was 'the beginning of approaching this scientifically'

 

I agree that 30 alone is too small, but like Phi, the claim of such tremendous improvement should mean that the study group vs. the control group should show at least some differences. As I said, it is a beginning. It is enough to maybe consider further study.

 

On the other hand, if the OP can't show his claims with a small group, there will be no need to even go to a larger, better controlled and defined experiment.

 

30 people can be gotten from a teacher's class or a typical person's facebook group. 3,000 or so that would make for a much more thorough test (and better in terms of controlling for different levels of innate athletic ability and so on) takes a much larger effort and money.

 

For sure, we can all agree that his single anecdote on himself is utterly meaningless scientifically.

 

So, ἀγάπ, you asked for some suggestion -- you got it -- how soon are you going to be able to get together a group a people and try?

[AbstractDreamer]

 

... there exists some energy which can gives us freedom from many struggles and uses can be not limited to health and well being.

 

If you really believe in this yourself, you should focus on defining this statement. Otherwise it sounds like a reading from a fortune teller.

[Phi for All]

Hence why my full quote was 'the beginning of approaching this scientifically'

 

I agree that 30 alone is too small, but like Phi, the claim of such tremendous improvement should mean that the study group vs. the control group should show at least some differences. As I said, it is a beginning. It is enough to maybe consider further study.

 

It would be like a pre-experiment. You'd throw it out immediately if it yielded results like the OP claims, and finance a much more comprehensive study.

 

Similar to asking someone to name several playing cards that only you can see in order to test psychic abilities. If you guessed 80% of 30 cards correctly, I'd definitely say further testing was a sound investment, even if it's only to find out how you're cheating.

[Bignose]

It would be like a pre-experiment. You'd throw it out immediately if it yielded results like the OP claims, and finance a much more comprehensive study.

 

Similar to asking someone to name several playing cards that only you can see in order to test psychic abilities. If you guessed 80% of 30 cards correctly, I'd definitely say further testing was a sound investment, even if it's only to find out how you're cheating.

Exactly. We're on the same page here.

[iNow]

Some things that could be measured and potentially be associated with commonly accepted ideas of chi:

 

• Neural activation and how that differs with different mental focus (same with pulse and heart rate)
• Different areas of cortical activity and how it changes
• Muscle activation and coordination, and whether this can be amplified through practice and concentration (do fast witch fibers fire in coordination with slow twitch, do micro muscles associated with balance supplement bulkier muscles for work, etc.)
• The magnetic field around a body and how it radiates / whether it's associated with action potentials and neural cascades
• The voltage difference between head and toes and if that can be consciously controlled
• Body temperature and heat in the belly and how those can be altered through focus
• Galvanic skin response and how that alters based on focus, likewise will pupil dilation

My core point is really that chi is generally used as a rhetorical shorthand to describe many other things that themselves are very real. In much the same way, the term "spiritual" is often used to describe a sense of connection and awe of the numinous.

 

All of these things are very real, but you lose credibility when borrowing and misusing well defined words from physics or summarizing these concepts with words commonly adopted by those who are high or psychologically damaged.

 

You can measure those other things, even predict how they'll change across various circumstances and test those hypotheses in various contexts. Chi as commonly used, though, is largely nonsensical woo. Be careful focusing so heavily on that and try instead to focus on those more tangible ideas and how they can be controlled and tested like the examples I offered above.

[EdEarl]

A problem with this kind of study is there may be alternate explanations of chi a phenomenon, such as hypnosis. Unless chi can be measured directly, like volts, it seems to me the experiments will be futile.

[Phi for All]

Unless chi can be measured directly, like volts, it seems to me the experiments will be futile.

 

And now I want a chi car. Something I can charge up myself and drive.

 

Or a chi-powered unicycle Segway. The One Wheel.

[ἀγάπ]

 

And now I want a chi car. Something I can charge up myself and drive.

 

Or a chi-powered unicycle Segway. The One Wheel.

 

 

I think that's possibile that we can use Qi as current. We can restore crashed bones, paralyzed people back and their nervous system. There is vast use of Qi but I would like to use word energy. Why I name this energy? Because energy is related to heat. Yesterday I was doing experiment with one skeptical person that I will make his hand hot. I take off my clothes (mostly) that there is no wires or anything like that which can generate the heat or any tricks or cheating used. In next 1-2 minutes his hand was pretty hot which can not be done with placebo effect because the effect was physical but the source is not measurable. It's like you can measure physical effect of chi but the source or where it comes from, how to measure it itself is not in grasp of science now so I think we will need to wait a bit more for such things.

 

Thank you for all inputs to this thread and open mind

[DrKrettin]

 

 

We can restore crashed bones, paralyzed people back and their nervous system. .....

 

Why I name this energy? Because energy is related to heat.

 

We need some evidence to take that seriously, and as I said before, if you continue to call it energy, nobody will ever take it seriously. You can't call it energy just because you like to (well, you can, but it is nonsense in a scientific environment)

[Phi for All]

I think that's possibile that we can use Qi as current.

There are many ways you could arrange an experiment to test this. I'm excited about my new Chiunicyle.

 

We can restore crashed bones, paralyzed people back and their nervous system.

These are the types of claims you need to support with evidence. You can't just claim you can do this. We need evidence.

 

There is vast use of Qi but I would like to use word energy. Why I name this energy? Because energy is related to heat. Yesterday I was doing experiment with one skeptical person that I will make his hand hot. I take off my clothes (mostly) that there is no wires or anything like that which can generate the heat or any tricks or cheating used. In next 1-2 minutes his hand was pretty hot which can not be done with placebo effect because the effect was physical but the source is not measurable. It's like you can measure physical effect of chi but the source or where it comes from, how to measure it itself is not in grasp of science now so I think we will need to wait a bit more for such things.

Pretty hot? Not scientific. We can measure the heat from energy, so why can't you? Are you saying that if you focus chi on this person's hand, a thermometer that had been calibrated from normal would show an increase? That's something you should be able to measure fairly easily.

[Strange]

Yesterday I was doing experiment with one skeptical person that I will make his hand hot. I take off my clothes (mostly) that there is no wires or anything like that which can generate the heat or any tricks or cheating used. In next 1-2 minutes his hand was pretty hot which can not be done with placebo effect because the effect was physical but the source is not measurable.

 

 

I have experienced this, when doing tai chi and qi gong. However, I am convinced that there are entirely mundane reasons (e.g. to do with improved blood flow, etc) that do not require any magical and undetectable "energy". Similarly, I have been knocked across the room by my teacher apparently moving his hand less than an inch. No magic "energy" required, just precise control of forces.

[ἀγάπ]

 

 

I have experienced this, when doing tai chi and qi gong. However, I am convinced that there are entirely mundane reasons (e.g. to do with improved blood flow, etc) that do not require any magical and undetectable "energy". Similarly, I have been knocked across the room by my teacher apparently moving his hand less than an inch. No magic "energy" required, just precise control of forces.

 

 

yes, but how do you explain that the person did not do anything but was sitting without any active movement to promote that heat related from blood circulation? Energy affects physical matters but the heat needed to have it source which was not related to the physical movement but to thing which I will call "energy".

 

to the others I will try to bring evidence as I will be sending mails and letters to all people in universities and stuff like this to see if anybody catch interest. I know this 100% there is such thing, if we can tap into that then Chibikes and Chicars and health and everything will be better at least to the extent of the research and results and scientific use of this energy which at first would be limited I guess.

[Phi for All]

Energy affects physical matters but the heat needed to have it source which was not related to the physical movement but to thing which I will call "energy".

 

Forget about sources for now. If you can affect the temperature of something with this "energy", you can measure that effect with a thermometer.

 

Put the thermometer on a table in a room and remove anything like fans or open flames (a light source is OK, as long as the amount of light stays the same). Now sit in front of it and wait for 5 minutes to let air currents settle down. Then mark down the temperature, and repeat this each minute for five minutes, to get a baseline temperature.

 

Then apply your chi. Focus on the thermometer itself, making it rise in temperature. Record the temperature every minute as before. Do it for ten or fifteen minutes. Now you have some data, which you can use to put together meaningful information about how chi affects temperature. This is what scientists will be looking for, testable, repeatable results that suggest strongly there is energy present that is unexplained by anything but chi.

 

And instead of saying "pretty hot", you get to say something much more accurate like, "+8.3 degrees C over 11 minutes".

[ἀγάπ]

thank you for that tip. I will try with thermometer but i think it's need to be in person hand as energy affect mostly organic matter, maybe if I can stick it into pulp of something organic. Chi should be condensed to more physical matter to be that conductive and this is beyond my actual possibilities. What I actually aim in sense of researching thins in science that we learn how to condense it into physical usefulness.

[Phi for All]

I will try with thermometer but i think it's need to be in person hand

 

If you use a person, try to remove all influence the person might have on the experiment. The person shouldn't know when you are using your chi or not. The person should be blindfolded. The person's mouth shouldn't be facing the thermometer so breathing affects temperature. The person should not talk during the experiment.

 

The goal is to show that, if there is an increase in temperature recorded by the thermometer, it can only be the affects of chi. Do as much as you can to limit anything that might interfere or influence the experiment.

[ἀγάπ]

Thank you

[Bignose]

If you use a person, try to remove all influence the person might have on the experiment. The person shouldn't know when you are using your chi or not. The person should be blindfolded. The person's mouth shouldn't be facing the thermometer so breathing affects temperature. The person should not talk during the experiment.

 

The goal is to show that, if there is an increase in temperature recorded by the thermometer, it can only be the affects of chi. Do as much as you can to limit anything that might interfere or influence the experiment.

And you need to repeat this multiple times, preferably in a random fashion. And you need to have an independent party record the temperature change. As Phi said, you have to do as little that might interfere as possible.

 

If you want other people to critique it for you, you should film the entire experiment uninterrupted, too.

[Phi for All]

And you need to repeat this multiple times, preferably in a random fashion. And you need to have an independent party record the temperature change. As Phi said, you have to do as little that might interfere as possible.

 

If you want other people to critique it for you, you should film the entire experiment uninterrupted, too.

 

And like the 50-80% improvement experiment, this is only to raise more interest, for more properly designed experiments. The goal here is to be able to show that there was a significant temperature increase when chi was demonstrated after all reasonable efforts to isolate the experiment from outside influences. If one were to run this test and find that "pretty hot" is actually an 8 degree increase, then you'd have the attention of the folks with the checkbook.

[ἀγάπ]

And you need to repeat this multiple times, preferably in a random fashion. And you need to have an independent party record the temperature change. As Phi said, you have to do as little that might interfere as possible.

 

If you want other people to critique it for you, you should film the entire experiment uninterrupted, too.

 

I would film it but most people will think it's fake or I have some kind of conductor or it's photoshopped so I would try go straight to the scientist in my area to do such things.

[AbstractDreamer]

I think most people agree:

• There's no doubt exercise relating to chi heats you up.
• Neither is there doubt exercise not-relating to chi heats you up.
• There's no doubt you can transfer thermal energy via conduction.

 

Its not impossible that you can control blood flow, metabolic rate, and even maybe electric charge in the body using conscious thought.

 

The question is there something else to chi beyond heat and charge that we don't know yet. Or is there something about heat and charge that medicine hasn't yet discovered?

 

Seeing something you don't understand is not proof that "special physics" exists.

Edited December 8, 2016 by AbstractDreamer

[Bignose]

I would film it but most people will think it's fake or I have some kind of conductor or it's photoshopped so I would try go straight to the scientist in my area to do such things.

Sure. But you have to start somewhere. That's what you came to this forum to ask. We're trying to show you good ideas of where to start. Which is more valuable? Taking a video and letting people look at it and some will call it fake, but others will point out possible other sources of error, or not having any video and leaving us to wonder what other sources of error you might have had? In my opinion, video that could possibly be faked is better than no video at all.

[iNow]

Its not impossible that you can control blood flow, metabolic rate, and even maybe electric charge in the body using conscious thought.

...to an extent.

 

The autonomous nervous system will still have primary control, even though you can influence those things slightly with conscious thought and practice. Agree with your broader point, though.