Floating land mass

[fredreload]

So I am really interested in the idea of a floating land mass or land masses from anime and movie and I am generating if not drawing some ideas on how to make it a reality. Now keep in mind I want to keep this floating land mass perpetual, which I want it to stay floating for as long as possible, therefore I'm not completely rejecting but I think the idea of a hot air balloon might not work here since you would be ascending and descending based on the temperature. The helium balloon has a chance of breaking but if you manage to contain it as a permanent source let me know. My idea is on vacuum, with every liter of vaccum you can sustain a weight of 1.28 g according to Wikipedia here. With this idea in mind and I recently took an interest in the carbon fiber, why not weave a huge vacuum balloon capable of staying in the sky forever. Well the problem with carbon fiber is there is no way to expand this net by itself. It might need to be built in space, since space is vacuum, but it depends. It has the strength of steel and it is light weight. The rest is to have it stay floating like a cloud. Let me know what you think or if you have any other floating mechanisms, I'll gladly hear it

[Sensei]

In this thread, I explained how to calculate altitude of something lighter than air that will fly in air:
http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/101460-has-the-double-slit-experiment-ever-been-conducted-in-zero-gravity/?p=960016

Basically your "mass land" has to have smaller density than air density (it's variable and depends on altitude).

So I am really interested in the idea of a floating land mass or land masses (...) The rest is to have it stay floating like a cloud. (....)

You need purpose for it in the first place..

Edited December 7, 2016 by Sensei

[fredreload]

In this thread, I explained how to calculate altitude of something lighter than air that will fly in air:

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/101460-has-the-double-slit-experiment-ever-been-conducted-in-zero-gravity/?p=960016

 

Basically your "mass land" has to have smaller density than air density (it's variable and depends on altitude).

 

 

You need purpose for it in the first place..

I think I found my answer here. As for purpose, my own personal vacation floating island with pool and fish that is self sustainable , never rains, perfect sunshine, and a fantasy setting

Edited December 7, 2016 by fredreload

[Mordred]

Lol for the amount of money to desigm that you could buy a small island.

 

Just a side note lol

 

Either way it will be interesting to see what ideas come out of this thread. Particularly the theoretical plausibility vs practicality.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Mordred

[fredreload]

Lol for the amount of money to desigm that you could buy a small island.

 

Just a side note lol

 

Either way it will be interesting to see what ideas come out of this thread. Particularly the theoretical plausibility vs practicality.

Right, didn't consider the cost lol, maybe I'll open an air transport or air McDonald

 

 

P.S I hope Swansnot doesn't get mad at me, I thought these are pretty good ideas

Edited December 7, 2016 by fredreload

[Mordred]

There can be a decent science discussion behind the idea. So I doubt it, provided the thread stays within mainstream science. ie no pink unicorns for a propulsion system.

 

I would start by establishing a size and maximum weight for the application.

 

Sensei has provided a good direction on buoyancy calcs. Some of the materials you suggested has merit.

 

If the thread runs properly everyone can potentially learn a few things. Nothing wrong with that. Particularly examining plausibility vs practicality.

 

Something like this material will help reduce the weight of your structures.

 

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/one-of-the-strongest-lightest-metals-ever-made-is-less-dense-than-water

 

Best part is from the link it looks like its reasonably inexpensive and producable on numerous factories. For practical reasons due to pressure I would stick to helium.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Mordred

[fredreload]

There can be a decent science discussion behind the idea. So I doubt it, provided the thread stays within mainstream science. ie no pink unicorns for a propulsion system.

 

I would start by establishing a size and maximum weight for the application.

 

Sensei has provided a good direction on buoyancy calcs. Some of the materials you suggested has merit.

 

If the thread runs properly everyone can potentially learn a few things. Nothing wrong with that. Particularly examining plausibility vs practicality.

 

Something like this material will help reduce the weight of your structures.

 

http://motherboard.vice.com/read/one-of-the-strongest-lightest-metals-ever-made-is-less-dense-than-water

 

Best part is from the link it looks like its reasonably inexpensive and producable on numerous factories. For practical reasons due to pressure I would stick to helium.

Metal heh, I want to float on air not water lol, the material still has a selective few options, and the lifting air, helium versus hydrogen. I dunno if graphene can be produced at such a scale, but cool I'll look into it

P.S Further study shows that building several smaller balloons would be a good idea

Edited December 7, 2016 by fredreload

[Mordred]

You might be interested in The Heaven and Earth design by Wei Zhao Winner of the 2012 eVolo Skyscraper competition. The design uses massive maglev's to counter Earths magnetic field.

 

 

http://earthtechling.com/2012/03/floating-city-rises-above-it-all-to-green-future/

 

I wouldn't call this a practical idea though. I seriously doubt this could work.

 

Another proposed idea was geodesic domes using temperature.

 

http://www.geniusstuff.com/blogs/flying-cities-buckminster-fuller.htm

 

As you can see some have tried to come up with reasonably seeming designs. The real question is

 

"can they theoretically work" ?

 

Should help though in presenting previous conceptual ideas. Keep in mind these are conceptual ideas.

Edited December 7, 2016 by Mordred

[fredreload]

You might be interested in The Heaven and Earth design by Wei Zhao Winner of the 2012 eVolo Skyscraper competition. The design uses massive maglev's to counter Earths magnetic field.

 

 

http://earthtechling.com/2012/03/floating-city-rises-above-it-all-to-green-future/

 

I wouldn't call this a practical idea though. I seriously doubt this could work.

 

Another proposed idea was geodesic domes using temperature.

 

http://www.geniusstuff.com/blogs/flying-cities-buckminster-fuller.htm

 

As you can see some have tried to come up with reasonably seeming designs. The real question is

 

"can they theoretically work" ?

 

Should help though in presenting previous conceptual ideas. Keep in mind these are conceptual ideas.

Heaven and earth design is really cool. It probably wouldn't go high up, but moving around is sufficient. Another thing is magnetic field and health concern, but that probably isn't that bad of an issue. How much force can it generates based on earth's magnetic field? What about the electric field design? Being on a higher ground would definitely have a better advantage

 

I wouldn't use temperature design since temperature changes all the time, rises and falls, I prefer something perpetual, that's why I didn't consider the hot air balloon method. I want something that stays stationary in the air, but only moves if there is wind or if you intend to move it.

 

My idea is more like the UP Pixar animation lol, the site I checked was able to trap helium in a one atom thick graphene balloon. You also need to worry about atmospheric pressure, without atmospheric pressure it won't float. Then it should be easily adjustable from there.

 

I think the heaven and earth design is cool, as long as it doesn't pose a health concern I would be in for it

[Mordred]

I haven't done the calcs but I doubt the Earths magnetic field would be strong enough. Good that you noticed two of the main concerns on the maglev idea. As well as one of the problems on the temperature idea.

 

Well done and thought out.+1

[Sensei]

Yet another thing to consider.
Center of mass.
Suppose so somebody make really large ballon, zeppelin.
It has to have gondola attached to bottom of it.
If you would have something on top of this "island" (where is the best access to the Sun), it would flip over!

 

Boats have the most massive devices on the bottom. It reduce chance to flip over during wind storm..

Edited December 7, 2016 by Sensei

[Mordred]

Oh man its been over 30 years since I last did effective centre of mass calcs lol. Good call +1

Edited December 7, 2016 by Mordred

[Moontanman]

Maybe you should consider Venus for floating cities, normal Earth air is lighter than the CO2 atmosphere of Venus, you get more sunlight and no worries about needing a huge support structure that contains useless gas...

[fredreload]

Maybe you should consider Venus for floating cities, normal Earth air is lighter than the CO2 atmosphere of Venus, you get more sunlight and no worries about needing a huge support structure that contains useless gas...

Hmm, is there enough oxygen at above the cloud level? I'll keep that in mind

[AbstractDreamer]

Before you starting building anything , just a few thoughts:

• What is your optimal float altitude? Too high you get less protection vs UV rays and yes less oxygen, too low you get weather and storms. Tempertaure variations with altitude too.
• Earth magnetic field is constantly shifting. It might even flip soon (1- few million years). http://www.esa.int/Our_Activities/Observing_the_Earth/Swarm/Earth_s_magnetic_heartbeat

 

 

http://www.windows2universe.org/earth/Atmosphere/layers_activity_print.html

Edited December 8, 2016 by AbstractDreamer