Refaat.aitta Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) Recently scientists have been performing experiments on people to test whether the heart plays a role in human thinking and cognition http://us.blastingnews.com/world/2016/12/we-could-be-knowing-by-heart-scientists-say-001305773.html Edited December 8, 2016 by Phi for All Overrode link restriction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 We had a thread on this recently - there is no thinking done by the heart. The link doesn't give any evidence for it, it just says that some experiments were done (without explaining them) and then concludes that their 'might' or 'could' be something to the expression.... which probably means there isn't. The heart is a pump for blood. The thinking is done with the brain. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refaat.aitta Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 you didnot read carefully,details about experiments were given, ''This year a study published in Journal of Experimental Psychology titled ‘’ Knowing by heart: Visceral feedback shapes recognition memory judgments.’’ In the study the scientists showed the participants arbitrary pictures of people and they used to repeat some pictures from time to time and being asked whether they have seen such faces before or no. The interesting part is the participants used to decide whether the face was repeated or not based on their heartbeat. In other words, the participants could say that a face is familiar just because their heart is beating in a certain way although the picture is shown for the first time, and they could also say that the face is not familiar although it has been repeated based on their heart beat.'' In addition, here is an article in scientific american discussing human psychology beyond the brain https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-neuroscience-of-heart/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrKrettin Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 We had a thread on this recently - there is no thinking done by the heart. The link doesn't give any evidence for it, it just says that some experiments were done (without explaining them) and then concludes that their 'might' or 'could' be something to the expression.... which probably means there isn't. The heart is a pump for blood. The thinking is done with the brain. What do you think? My heart tells me you are right 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Refaat - I did read it. I read that paragraph you quoted and still hold the same view. Just because people reacted differently to seeing pics of people whose hearts are beating similarly or differently is no indication that the heart thinks.... maybe we do pick up on things that others are feeling... but the info processed to make that decision is made in the brain. As for 'feelings' in other parts of the body - well, these feelings are caused by messages sent to those body parts from.... guess where.... the brain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refaat.aitta Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 sorry.the.space.button.is.broken the.brain.tells.me.where.to.feel.pain,,but.the.experience.of.pain.itself.clearly.doesn't.lie.in.the.brain the.brain.just.pushes.the.button Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrP Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) PS - just a further thought - I think people are caught up with semantics here. There is also 'muscular memory'. This doesn't mean that muscles remember or think - it means the neural pathways from repeating a singular or a combined muscular movement over and over and over again have been burned into place by being written over and reformed so many times it becomes 'second nature' or 'instinct'. I think this is the same and is what is meant by 'knowing by heart'. So: by 'knowing by heart' a poem or a book or a speech - it just means that you have gone over it so many times that the neural pathways in the BRAIN have been so well trodden that you don't really have to work very hard to recite it. The info isn't actually stored in the heart. RE Pain: You are right, the brain doesn't 'feel' the pain, my hand does (if my hand is injured). This is not my hand thinking though is it. It is the nerve endings in my hand sending a message to my brain, where all the info is processed and sorted. The actual thinking is done in the brain. Edited December 8, 2016 by DrP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refaat.aitta Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 in my view consciousness is not just about calculation neurons only process information but there are other features of consciousness that don't just depend on calculation. Roger Penrose wrote two huge books arguing for quantum nature of consciousness based on this noncomputable side of consciousness, arguing mainly from the undecidable problems like the incompleteness theorems of Godel, even Ed witten recently claimed that science can never crack consciousness Pain is not a thought, pain is some sort of a physical phenomena and of course it is a feature of consciousness, our awareness is not just a calculation in the brain, when we are aware of something or feel something we don't just calculate like a computer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 The experiment shows that the response can be measure from the heartbeat. People can have sexual responses to visual cues, too. Does that mean that thinking is done with one's naughty bits? Or is it possible that one's response to visual cues includes signals sent to various parts of the body? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrKrettin Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 Does that mean that thinking is done with one's naughty bits? It's a well-known fact that a male naughty bit has a mind of its own, often disagreeing strongly with any other centre of intelligence, if there is one. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) The form of a heart is based on the buttocks of a female bending over Edited December 8, 2016 by Itoero 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refaat.aitta Posted December 8, 2016 Author Share Posted December 8, 2016 The experiment shows that the response can be measure from the heartbeat. People can have sexual responses to visual cues, too. Does that mean that thinking is done with one's naughty bits? No that is not the idea, the participants decided whether or not they remember a face based on their heartbeat not their memory. the information ''originally'' arose from the heart not the brain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endy0816 Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 So how do you account for people living, thinking and feeling without a biological heart? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzwood Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 You do realize heart rate is influenced by things like adrenaline and other chemicals, right? Recognition -> emotional response from the BRAIN -> heart rate is influenced. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrmDoc Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 (edited) I agree with Fuzzwood, this article appears to reference essentially a physical response or reaction to a perceptual experience that originates from visual stimuli. Empirically, visual stimuli enters the brain via the optic nerve through a direct neural connection that does not include the heart. The heart does not directly or indirectly receive visual sensory; therefore, the "visceral feedback" or heartrate response to visual stimuli can only originate from brain function. Increases and decreases in heartrate responses to visual stimuli are indicative of what is happening in the brain rather than some thought or perceptual process of the heart. However, "visceral feedback" may also have another source that actually involves the viscera. It's called the enteric nervous system and is sometimes called the "second brain" as this more recent "Do Gut Feelings Actually Exist?" DNews video also discusses. Edited December 8, 2016 by DrmDoc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted December 8, 2016 Share Posted December 8, 2016 No that is not the idea, the participants decided whether or not they remember a face based on their heartbeat not their memory. the information ''originally'' arose from the heart not the brain. You can't conclude that the information came from the heart, since you haven't eliminated the pathway whereby the brain is sending signals to the heart. So vision—recognition—subconscious/involuntary impulse—changed heartbeat hasn't been excluded. The heartbeat is a proxy for the memory, not independent of it. It's still the same as recognition of attractiveness by whether or not a man gets an erection. The brain hasn't been bypassed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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