The Bobster Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) Are Whites privileged in academia? Is there any indication of nepotism in college admissions? Does ethnic bias ever influence science? How do we establish ethnic bias in science? Finding cases of academic fraud and correlating them to ethnicity would be one way. Are there any examples of Whites doing this? If so, is it a conspiracy? Some data to get the ball rolling. Edited December 20, 2016 by The Bobster
_Rick_ Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Are Whites privileged in academia? Is there any indication of nepotism in college admissions? Does ethnic bias ever influence science? How do we establish ethnic bias in science? Finding cases of academic fraud and correlating them to ethnicity would be one way. Are there any examples of Whites doing this? If so, is it a conspiracy? Some data to get the ball rolling. I don't know about in the states but during the enrolment stages in the UK universities make an effort to be proportional so they don't get called out. There's still a gap though and I think that's almost entirely down to factors earlier on in their life, if you want to get into who is really under-represented in the states its American Indians.
The Bobster Posted December 20, 2016 Author Posted December 20, 2016 I don't know about in the states but during the enrolment stages in the UK universities make an effort to be proportional so they don't get called out. There's still a gap though and I think that's almost entirely down to factors earlier on in their life, if you want to get into who is really under-represented in the states its American Indians. Interesting. You think heritability is set in childhood, and not that it increases over time. Any reason you think that? Which ethnicities are most privileged in the States?
DrP Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 RE: American Indians - No one cares about the natives though do they? They are just an embarrassment to the country that claims to be built on Christian values.. More like Old Testament genocide - zero Christian values of love and respect in the early days, just theft and murder. It is easy to love your lover, father mother and friends... you are supposed to love your enemy (in this case the people who's lands you are invading and food supplies you are destroying). Being fair though - it wasn't just the states that has been built this way - the history of the whole world is rife with it. I reckon the best way to get over/past all this racism is to stop making a thing about it - it is well known why some social groups do not get the same chances in life than others - this is changing for the better but it is a slow process. I do not believe it should be fixed with positive discrimination - that just breeds more resentment from the types that vote brexit, Trump and the racists. Hopefully time will smooth it all over.... as it seems to be doing slowly.
_Rick_ Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Interesting. You think heritability is set in childhood, and not that it increases over time. Any reason you think that? Which ethnicities are most privileged in the States? I just think about it in the same way I think about women in STEM and the disproportions there. It's not that women are inherently worse at things, just like ethnic minorities aren't, its just that through upbringing (on average) they're slightly more discouraged to get into STEM or university as a whole. I tried to find some data on the % accepted for specific ethnicities. I know that over here for example you're a fair bit more likely to be accepted if you're a woman into a STEM field due to positive discrimination quotas.
The Bobster Posted December 20, 2016 Author Posted December 20, 2016 it is well known why some social groups do not get the same chances in life than others Really? And why is that? It's kind of the point of the thread. I do not believe it should be fixed with positive discrimination - that just breeds more resentment from the types that vote brexit, Trump and the racists. Hopefully time will smooth it all over.... as it seems to be doing slowly. Do these people, White people who vote in their ethnic interest, have any justification to do so? Do other ethnicities ever act in their interest? I just think about it in the same way I think about women in STEM and the disproportions there. It's not that women are inherently worse at things, just like ethnic minorities aren't, its just that through upbringing (on average) they're slightly more discouraged to get into STEM or university as a whole. I tried to find some data on the % accepted for specific ethnicities. I know that over here for example you're a fair bit more likely to be accepted if you're a woman into a STEM field due to positive discrimination quotas. I see. So you imagine behavior genetic findings. Which ethnicities are most privileged in the USA? There is some data in the OP.
DrP Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 QUOTE: "it's kind of the point of the thread".. Really? Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought the point of the thread was to get a discussion going about race and education and then later switch to a discussion about the capability of blacks compared to that of whites... I kinda thought you might be that mikemike guy again.. Again - sorry I may be wrong - it was just all that moaning about threads being closed for discussing ethnic bias made you look like that same guy again under a different name. 1
The Bobster Posted December 20, 2016 Author Posted December 20, 2016 QUOTE: "it's kind of the point of the thread".. Really? Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought the point of the thread was to get a discussion going about race and education and then later switch to a discussion about the capability of blacks compared to that of whites... I kinda thought you might be that mikemike guy again.. Again - sorry I may be wrong - it was just all that moaning about threads being closed for discussing ethnic bias made you look like that same guy again under a different name. You wrote: "it is well known why some social groups do not get the same chances in life than others". Sounds pretty relevant to ethnic privilege in education. So tell us.
DrP Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Regarding voting in your own interest rather than for the common good - well - we have seen it recently in the US and in the UK. The world is changing for the better - it is just happening slowly due the fact that most of us are pretty selfish. Maybe being selfish and xenophobic was a positive evolutionary trait long ago that is taking time to get over.
_Rick_ Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 I see. So you imagine behavior genetic findings. I mean I guess you could say its imagined, I haven't done any independent research it's just based off of anecdotal evidence and shit I've read. Like I said I can't talk about the states but I think there's certainly evidence to point that way. You should stop bumping your thread like that by the way, an interview thread isn't good content, talk about your own opinions too.
The Bobster Posted December 20, 2016 Author Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) Regarding voting in your own interest rather than for the common good - well - we have seen it recently in the US and in the UK. The world is changing for the better - it is just happening slowly due the fact that most of us are pretty selfish. Maybe being selfish and xenophobic was a positive evolutionary trait long ago that is taking time to get over. Do you imagine that people in Saudi Arabia and China "vote for the common good"? Do they even vote? What is your view of "the common good". Sounds subjective. Would one way mass immigration to only White nations be a "common good"? Edited December 20, 2016 by The Bobster
DrP Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 QUOTE: "so tell us".. We have known about ethnic privilege for decades and decades though... it is improving very slowly. What is it you want to know about it or discuss? Or do you want to swing it round to comparing the competence of ethnic backgrounds again? Is that your agenda again? QUOTE:"....Do they even vote.." How is the rest of the world relevant? Are you saying that they aren't voting for the common good so why should we? It's about doing what is right, you can't say "everyone else is being bad so why should I be good" - that makes you part of the problem rather than the solution. We can only hope that countries like Saudi will eventually open up to the ways of freedom and love for the people rather than forcing religion and oppression on them.
StringJunky Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 I do not believe it should be fixed with positive discrimination... Sometimes social engineering is necessary or else it won't happen; it's worked here. Yes, it causes some resentment to the generation it negatively affects but long term it positively shifts the direction and benefits the country eventually.
The Bobster Posted December 20, 2016 Author Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) QUOTE: "so tell us".. We have known about ethnic privilege for decades and decades though... it is improving very slowly. What is it you want to know about it or discuss? Or do you want to swing it round to comparing the competence of ethnic backgrounds again? Is that your agenda again This thread is about White privilege in academia. You said you knew why "certain groups", it was "well known", got "life chances". In the context this can be taken to mean you know why some groups are privileged in academia. Is that not what you meant? If it is, why? Nepotism? Genetic IQ? Culture? If it isn't, you are being irrelevant. Which groups are most privileged? You claim to see a problem, what is the problem exactly in your view? QUOTE:"....Do they even vote.." How is the rest of the world relevant? Are you saying that they aren't voting for the common good so why should we? It's about doing what is right, you can't say "everyone else is being bad so why should I be good" - that makes you part of the problem rather than the solution. We can only hope that countries like Saudi will eventually open up to the ways of freedom and love for the people rather than forcing religion and oppression on them. You consider unilaterally opening your borders to the point where your people no longer exist to be "good"? I guess you're entitled to your opinion. Sometimes social engineering is necessary or else it won't happen; it's worked here. Yes, it causes some resentment to the generation it negatively affects but long term it positively shifts the direction and benefits the country eventually. Do you think Jewish and Asian enrollment should be capped? Maybe replacing half of them with native Mexicans would sort things out, or at least be a step in the right direction? Edited December 20, 2016 by The Bobster
swansont Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 This thread is about White privilege in academia. ! Moderator Note Indeed. Politics and immigration are not academia, so people should not post examples of those, and you should not respond to such posts. Further, you have used heritability and genetics in response to posts that made no claim about them. I will further caution you against straw-man arguments (and about responding to this modnote in the thread)
DrP Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Well - if you are going to put words in my mouth with reasonless extrapolation of what I have said then I'm out Mike. How you jump from me talking about doing things for the common good to uncontrollably opening borders I do not know. It's obvious where you are going with it.... forget it. I used to be pretty nationalist myself... it is taught behaviour - your dad or a close friend who has strong views about it has brain washed you into their way of thinking or has fooled you with some half truth data or just plain lies and propaganda. However you got into it, drop it - you're better off without it.
StringJunky Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Do you think Jewish and Asian enrollment should be capped? Maybe replacing half of them with native Mexicans would sort things out, or at least be a step in the right direction? If the allocation is limited and any excluded/disadvantaged group needs benefit of such a policy. yes.
The Bobster Posted December 20, 2016 Author Posted December 20, 2016 ! Moderator Note Indeed. Politics and immigration are not academia, so people should not post examples of those, and you should not respond to such posts. Further, you have used heritability and genetics in response to posts that made no claim about them. I will further caution you against straw-man arguments (and about responding to this modnote in the thread) Academic enrollment is affected by politics and immigration. "There's still a gap though and I think that's almost entirely down to factors earlier on in their life" is a claim about heritability, ie. genetic portion of variance. If you stop slandering me I won't need to respond. -1
Strange Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 "There's still a gap though and I think that's almost entirely down to factors earlier on in their life" is a claim about heritability, ie. genetic portion of variance. Or cultural/societal effects.
The Bobster Posted December 20, 2016 Author Posted December 20, 2016 (edited) Or cultural/societal effects. Heritability is the genetic portion of variance. By definition cultural/societal effects contribute to the environmental portion, for those non-genetic cultural effects. Well - if you are going to put words in my mouth with reasonless extrapolation of what I have said then I'm out Mike. How you jump from me talking about doing things for the common good to uncontrollably opening borders I do not know. It's obvious where you are going with it.... forget it. I used to be pretty nationalist myself... it is taught behaviour - your dad or a close friend who has strong views about it has brain washed you into their way of thinking or has fooled you with some half truth data or just plain lies and propaganda. However you got into it, drop it - you're better off without it. I'm really not sure what relevance your posts have. You oppose Trump and Brexit apparently, because "good" and "freedom". I tried to steer you back to the OP question. Doesn't seem like you have anything relevant to say. And thanks for the pop-psychoanalysis. I'm "brainwashed" because I disagree with your half baked irrelevance. Forgive me for lol'ing. Hint: you're supposed to counter data before calling it lies. Edited December 20, 2016 by The Bobster -1
Delta1212 Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Isn't "non-genetic cultural effect" redundant?
swansont Posted December 20, 2016 Posted December 20, 2016 Academic enrollment is affected by politics and immigration. "There's still a gap though and I think that's almost entirely down to factors earlier on in their life" is a claim about heritability, ie. genetic portion of variance. So kids can't be poor early in life. That's a new one to me. If you stop slandering me I won't need to respond. If you stop breaking the rules, I won't need to lock your threads.
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