conspiracy theory and God

[paragaster]

Is belief in God without proving its existence a conspiracy theory? Nearly all believe in God. People have denied the existence of God by arguments that are flimsy. Should I continue believing in God though I have reached a stage of no return?

[iNow]

Do you believe in Santa Claus? Could you force yourself to? Answer those and you've answered the original.

[Tampitump]

Is belief in God without proving its existence a conspiracy theory? Nearly all believe in God. People have denied the existence of God by arguments that are flimsy. Should I continue believing in God though I have reached a stage of no return?

I don't think beliefs are something you choose. You're either convinced of something, or you're not. I think there is far too much importance put on the God claim, as if if mattered any more than bigfoot or fairies. People do not find it difficult or uncomfortable to disbelieve in these things because, unlike God, they weren't raised with emotional attachments to them. I think this is why people can't let the God concept go, despite how unlikely and antiquated the concept is. They simply have a need to believe that supersedes straining credulity.

[Ophiolite]

Is belief in God without proving its existence a conspiracy theory? Nearly all believe in God. People have denied the existence of God by arguments that are flimsy. Should I continue believing in God though I have reached a stage of no return?

You do not appear to understand what a conspiracy theory is.

[Memammal]

Is belief in God without proving its existence a conspiracy theory?

It is a superstition, something that our species acquired somewhere along the line. At this stage in our evolutionary development most people seem prone to have such a superstitious inclination. Some have argued that it must be in the genes, even referring to it as the god gene, but so far no luck in finding it. Probably a bit of nature, but I suspect more nurture. Perhaps an evolutionary spandrel making us susceptible for the spreading of a god meme..?

 

This is a useful article to read...it starts off like this: The scientific idea that a trait or characteristic of an organism that is hard-wire means that it is a permanent feature should be retired. Case in point: God and religion.

[Prometheus]

Probably a bit of nature, but I suspect more nurture. Perhaps an evolutionary spandrel making us susceptible for the spreading of a god meme..?

 

I imagine it's related to the pattern seeking behaviour of humans: a kind of celestial pareidolia.

 

Maybe we can do an experiment where that part of the brain responsible for pareidolia is inhibited, then some measure of 'godness' is taken to test this.

 

But the idea that something causes the river to flood and the seasons to turn must be an important development in a species. If something causes it, maybe we can influence it somehow. So the journey begins with the 'fall' of man.

[Memammal]

But the idea that something causes the river to flood and the seasons to turn must be an important development in a species. If something causes it, maybe we can influence it somehow. So the journey begins with the 'fall' of man.

I watched an interesting program called Human Journey, Apeman - Spaceman (Ep.1), presented by Prof Brian Cox that was broadcasted on BBC Earth recently. In it he argues that there seems to be compelling evidence in the form of the skull sizes of our early ancestors to suggest that the violent climatic changes that coincided with the cyclical changes in Earth's orbital inclination might have impacted immensely on the development of hominids living during each such period. He showed that brain (skull) sizes increased dramatically and that it happened to coincide with periods during which Earth's eco system was affected.

 

As for the 'fall' of man...if you are superstitious you would probably fall for talking snakes and forbidden fruits of knowledge..?

Edited December 22, 2016 by Memammal

[Prometheus]

I watched an interesting program called Human Journey, Apeman - Spaceman (Ep.1), presented by Prof Brian Cox that was broadcasted on BBC Earth recently. In it he argues that there seems to be compelling evidence in the form of the skull sizes of our early ancestors to suggest that the violent climatic changes that coincided with the cyclical changes in Earth's orbital inclination might have impacted immensely on the development of hominids living during each such period. He showed that brain (skull) sizes increased dramatically and that it happened to coincide with periods during which Earth's eco system was affected.

 

Perhaps. It would be interesting to see if the 'god' meme develops in other species as they develop intellectually, but we'd be lucky to see that.

 

As for the 'fall' of man...if you are superstitious you would probably fall for talking snakes and forbidden fruits of knowledge..?

 

It's allegory.

[swansont]

Is belief in God without proving its existence a conspiracy theory?

 

 

I can't think of an argument that would rebut this.

 

God caused the the WTC collapse, because jet fuel can't melt steel beams. God killed JFK, because an amateur couldn't accurately fire three shots in six seconds.

 

I'd say the arguments are just as (un)sound as the existing conspiracy theory ones. Though I imagine trumpeting this around will piss off both the religious people and the conspiracy advocates, because conspiracies generally revolve around bad things happening, and those are not typically associated with divine interaction.

[Strange]

Is belief in God without proving its existence a conspiracy theory?

 

 

Who is in this conspiracy apart from God? If it is just him, then it isn't a conspiracy.

[swansont]

 

 

Who is in this conspiracy apart from God? If it is just him, then it isn't a conspiracy.

 

 

The people trying to get other people to believe in her, I am assuming.

[Strange]

 

 

The people trying to get other people to believe in her, I am assuming.

 

 

Ah, I see. I wasn't looking at it from that perspective.

 

Isn't another requirement of a conspiracy that it be secret or hidden in some way? But there seems little secrecy about the fact there are organizations committed to encouraging people to believe in one god or another.

Should I continue believing in God though I have reached a stage of no return?

 

What is the stage of no return?

[dimreepr]

As for the 'fall' of man...if you are superstitious you would probably fall for talking snakes and forbidden fruits of knowledge..?

 

Guess what happened to Nietzsche's thinking.

[swansont]

Ah, I see. I wasn't looking at it from that perspective.

 

Isn't another requirement of a conspiracy that it be secret or hidden in some way? But there seems little secrecy about the fact there are organizations committed to encouraging people to believe in one god or another.

 

 

take 9/11. The result wasn't hidden. The conspiracy is who (allegedly) really carried out the attacks, claiming some kind of inside job. I think invoking God, working in mysterious ways, fits. The conspiracy would be that God is doing all these things the religious attribute to their deity but there's no actual evidence. Bill O'Reilly saying the tides are caused by God - doesn't that sound like a conspiracy?

[Delta1212]

take 9/11. The result wasn't hidden. The conspiracy is who (allegedly) really carried out the attacks, claiming some kind of inside job. I think invoking God, working in mysterious ways, fits. The conspiracy would be that God is doing all these things the religious attribute to their deity but there's no actual evidence. Bill O'Reilly saying the tides are caused by God - doesn't that sound like a conspiracy?

But isn't the point of a conspiracy theory that the theory is that there is a conspiracy?

 

There's no doubt that the groups exist in this case. Just doubt about what they are promoting.

 

It's be like everyone knowing there was an organization devoted to framing terrorists for bringing down the World Trade Center but nobody could agree on whether the Towers actually fell at all.

 

It's sort of an inverted conspiracy theory in that sense. Instead of a publically visible result with a hidden organization that most people don't believe exists representing the "real" explanation of what happened, you have very public organizations purporting to hold the truth about something that most people can't agree on the existence of.

 

You can certainly use God as an explanation for things in the same way that a conspiracy theory is used as an explanation for things, but by that metric, belief in the CIA would be a conspiracy theory.

[swansont]

But isn't the point of a conspiracy theory that the theory is that there is a conspiracy?

 

All a conspiracy needs is a bunch of people getting together to agree to produce a certain result. Religion doesn't do that? They all agree that God did it.

You can certainly use God as an explanation for things in the same way that a conspiracy theory is used as an explanation for things, but by that metric, belief in the CIA would be a conspiracy theory.

I'm sure there are many nefarious actions attributed to the CIA with no concrete evidence.

[Delta1212]

Yes, but that's my point. There are a lot of conspiracy theories about the CIA. That doesn't make the CIA itself a conspiracy theory.

 

Similarly, while religion may represent a conspiracy of people who all share a theory with one another, that is not generally what is meant by a conspiracy theory, which is a theory about the existence of a conspiracy, not a conspiracy of people with a theory.

[swansont]

Yes, but that's my point. There are a lot of conspiracy theories about the CIA. That doesn't make the CIA itself a conspiracy theory.

Similarly, while religion may represent a conspiracy of people who all share a theory with one another, that is not generally what is meant by a conspiracy theory, which is a theory about the existence of a conspiracy, not a conspiracy of people with a theory.

Doesn't that just depend on your point of view? If I'm not in the CIA, I can invoke them as being part of a conspiracy. Same thing if I'm not in the religion.

[Delta1212]

Doesn't that just depend on your point of view? If I'm not in the CIA, I can invoke them as being part of a conspiracy. Same thing if I'm not in the religion.

Sure, you can invoke them as part of a conspiracy theory. And I'm sure you could build a conspiracy theory around God or religion if you wanted to. There probably are plenty of conspiracy theories about religions and religious institutions. But that doesn't make the idea of God itself a conspiracy theory.