You believe that mass duplicates itself and goes through both slits?

No, the answer is that the universe doesn't care what you believe. What our experiments tell us is that massive particle/waves can go through double slits, your dislike doesn't change reality.

pittsburghjoe · January 7, 2017

I'm asking you to question what you are told. Would it really be that awful if QM needed updated a bit?

Edited January 7, 2017 by pittsburghjoe

**Klaynos** · January 7, 2017

I'm asking you to question what you are told. Would it really be that awful if QM needed updated a bit?

I've done the experiments though. I've taught the experiments to undergraduates. We've got the experimental evidence.

You have nothing. No evidence just wishful thinking and misconceptions.

And to add scientist are constantly trying to prove their ideas wrong that's how you find out new stuff.

pittsburghjoe · January 7, 2017

Your experiments didn't involve proving what a particle is during superposition.

**swansont** · January 7, 2017

I'm willing to believe energy goes through both slits as waves, but not mass.

!

Moderator Note

If you have a new idea, post it in speculations and follow the guidelines for posting there (i.e. you'd better have a model or some kind of evidence to back up what you claim). If you post in a science section, as you did here, you don't get to push your pet theory.

If that looks familiar, it's because it was posted in your previous thread. Stop posting WAGs in the main science section.

Moved to speculations, where you are expected to back up your claim (such as: describe an experiment that can or has shown your idea to be correct)

**Klaynos** · January 7, 2017

Your experiments didn't involve proving what a particle is during superposition.

But we can model how massive and massless particles behave and compare that to the measurements. Those two agree to very high precision. If you disagree with this you need an equally accurate model of the observations else you're just talking crap.

Ophiolite · January 7, 2017

I'm asking you to question what you are told. Would it really be that awful if QM needed updated a bit?

Here is what upsets me. It is individuals, such as yourself, who believe they are being open-minded, elegant and perceptive by asking questions. (There are however good questions and dumb questions.) And you make this ignorant implication: we never question what we are told.

There are the words of someone whose education was either devoid of science training, or whose science training was grossly inadequate, or who completely ignored the science training. One is trained to question . . . . everything. You are aware, are you not, that scientists conduct experiments. Even in the very first year of science class in school, one conducts experiments. Are you unaware that an experiment is a question?

Ignorance of this fact is forgivable. Continued ignorance, beyond this point where you have been educated, is not. Committed ignorance, in the face of contrary information, is delusional, foolish and requires one to question the sanity, intelligence or character of the perpetrator.

Any questions?

pittsburghjoe · January 22, 2017

Hey guys! Did you enjoy your vacation while I was being punished?

To add to my argument and to further enrage you, I realized that quantum tunneling shows mass bypassing a solid barrier. You still want to defend physical mass in superposition?

I purpose a buckyball be fired at a single slit that has a width smaller than the buckyball and see if it passes through it. OR put it into a box that has a divider with a single slit (width smaller than the buckball) and see how often buckyball makes it to the other side.

But we can model how massive and massless particles behave and compare that to the measurements. Those two agree to very high precision. If you disagree with this you need an equally accurate model of the observations else you're just talking crap.

The hidden variable can satisfy your equations without being physically there. I'm not saying a particle disappears when in superposition ..just that it turns mostly into EM waves.

Here is what upsets me. It is individuals, such as yourself, who believe they are being open-minded, elegant and perceptive by asking questions. (There are however good questions and dumb questions.) And you make this ignorant implication: we never question what we are told.

There are the words of someone whose education was either devoid of science training, or whose science training was grossly inadequate, or who completely ignored the science training. One is trained to question . . . . everything. You are aware, are you not, that scientists conduct experiments. Even in the very first year of science class in school, one conducts experiments. Are you unaware that an experiment is a question?

Ignorance of this fact is forgivable. Continued ignorance, beyond this point where you have been educated, is not. Committed ignorance, in the face of contrary information, is delusional, foolish and requires one to question the sanity, intelligence or character of the perpetrator.

Any questions?

Well aren't you a gem. It's almost comical that you're willing to question everything EXCEPT for what I'm pointing at.

Delta1212 · January 23, 2017

To add to my argument and to further enrage you, I realized that quantum tunneling shows mass bypassing a solid barrier. You still want to defend physical mass in superposition?

I don't understand how that question relates to the preceding statement.

Also, it seems like you are on the cusp of grasping that "stuff" does not behave in the way that daily life teaches us "solid" things behave, but you seem to be getting caught up on the idea that this must mean that it is converted to something else when in superposition like EM radiation rather than just being something entirely apart from anything in your mental model of the world on a fundamental level.

The whole wave-particle duality thing is well trod by physics and seems to resolve all of the issues you have, except that it looks like you're insisting that particles are really particles but get converted to EM waves in order to explain their wavelike behavior.

This is both unnecessary and not supported by evidence, whereas it's much simpler once you recognize that fundamental particles are not miniature billiard balls and don not behave nor "look" like anything you have experience with in everyday life.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Delta1212

**swansont** · January 23, 2017

I'm not saying a particle disappears when in superposition ..just that it turns mostly into EM waves.

!

Moderator Note

Then it's up to you to provide a model and/or evidence that this is the case. Enough with the hand-waving and other non-responsive posts.

pittsburghjoe · January 23, 2017

No physical mass for anything in superposition is just the tip of the iceberg. Anything in a superposition event can move at the speed of light or faster. Nothing is able to move at the speed of light unless it is capable of going into a superposition state. Anything in a superposition event can move at the speed of light or greater as mostly EM waves along its probability density map. The areas of the density map that are denser are the areas that the bulk of the object (EM waves) travel past the most. I call them ghosts.

I'm willing to pay for someone to write this into a formula.

I think a buckyball is good test subject.

**imatfaal** · January 23, 2017

I think I can express your idea in an expression involving the Magnetic field and the associated level of computational complexity of the Angular Momentum vector combined with the Lagrangian and the limiting behaviour of the product of the speed of light, boltzmans constant, and the entropy

pittsburghjoe · January 23, 2017

Did someone take me seriously for once?! or is this a cruel joke.

**imatfaal** · January 23, 2017

You wanna get taken seriously? Learn some physics before you claim to have overturned the most accurate theory we have.

Mordred · January 23, 2017

lol believe me you don't want to see the superposition equations in QFT treatments

Edited January 23, 2017 by Mordred

**imatfaal** · January 23, 2017

I'm willing to pay for someone to write this into a formula.

I think I can express your idea in an expression involving the Magnetic field and the associated level of computational complexity of the Angular Momentum vector combined with the Lagrangian and the limiting behaviour of the product of the speed of light, boltzmans constant, and the entropy

B Magnetic Field

O - Big O Notation in Computation

L - Angular Momentum

L - Lagrangian

O - Big O Notation in Maths

c - speed of light

k - Boltzman's Constant

S - Entropy

So Yes - Cruel Joke

**swansont** · January 23, 2017

No physical mass for anything in superposition is just the tip of the iceberg.

Again, you are demonstrating you have no grasp of what superposition is.

Anything in a superposition event can move at the speed of light or faster.

You forgot "...is something I just made up"

Nothing is able to move at the speed of light unless it is capable of going into a superposition state.

What does one have to do with the other? let's see your model that predicts this.

Anything in a superposition event can move at the speed of light or greater as mostly EM waves along its probability density map. The areas of the density map that are denser are the areas that the bulk of the object (EM waves) travel past the most. I call them ghosts.

More stuff you just made up.

I'm willing to pay for someone to write this into a formula.

That's not how this works. It's not like you are doing a translation of one language to another.

It's like requesting "Her hair was brown and eyes were blue. Write that as a formula!"

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