if your doctors can't cure your disease or even can't diagnose your condition, what will you do ?

[fresh]

As i know it is very common after you move from one doctor to another, nobody can help you, what will you do ?

consider you put any thread regarding your condition in this forum, it will be locked.

Do you feel helpless and hopeless, what will you do next ?

 

[fiveworlds]

Hmm going to the doctor is expensive. You can't spend all your money on doctors unfortunately you just have to move on and treat the symptoms.

[DrP]

Wot!? Going to the doctor is completely free - unless you live in the 3rd world or something? ;-)

 

I'd go back to the doctor and keep turning up until they give you some further tests, a firm diagnosis or an injunction to keep away.

[CharonY]

Depends on where you are. In the US going to the doctor whilst uninsured or having high deductibles can be prohibitively expensive. Likewise, if you want to see a medical specialist outside of your insurance network.

On the other hand, some centralized systems may limit your abilities to see specialists or get additional opinions, especially if the primary physicians does not think that it may be worthwhile and does not give you referrals.

[Ophiolite]

Wot!? Going to the doctor is completely free - unless you live in the 3rd world or something? ;-)

 

I'd go back to the doctor and keep turning up until they give you some further tests, a firm diagnosis or an injunction to keep away.

Wot! right back at you. Seriously, lad, you need to take a look into the reality of world healthcare. For all the current criticism the NHS takes, we are blessed compared with most countries on the planet.

 

(I say lad, not to be patronising, but I can't entertain the notion that a fullscale adult could be so ill informed.)

[Phi for All]

As far as locking threads offering medical advice, a HUGE part of medical diagnosis is being able to physically examine the patient. Just writing down what YOU think is wrong is pointless, since you're not a medical professional. Getting advice from other non-professionals over the internet could be very dangerous. If you started asking for medical advice, I'd want to shut down the thread for your sake.

 

As long as nobody is prescribing any kind of treatment for you, we can discuss your OP.

 

I'd like to know if your many doctors have told you either 1) there is definitely something wrong with you but they don't know what it is, or 2) they can't find anything physiologically wrong with you. If the answer is 1, you should be able to get referrals to more specialized medicine (although I don't know anything about your healthcare system). If the answer is 2, then you could be exhibiting signs of hypochondria (something also made worse by internet diagnoses). Whether that's true or not, it may be what the doctors think if they can't find anything wrong.

 

In either case, documentation of the evidence can't hurt, and may show the next doctor that you need further testing.

[DrP]

Oph - I thought most 1st world countries had decent health care, current criticism of our NHS aside. I know the US hasn't - I was being facetious, sorry if that did not come across (I put a wink there to indicate lack of seriousness). In a country as advanced as the USA I would expect a person to be able to go to the doctor when ill to get checked out without having to worry about finances. I think it is deplorable that they can't.

[fiveworlds]

Wot!? Going to the doctor is completely free - unless you live in the 3rd world or something? ;-)​

 

 

No it isn't we have much the same free healthcare here. But

 

a) it is only free if you are unemployed

b) going to the hospital for tests has waiting lists

c) not every medication is covered by the free healtcare system

d) if the condition is not lifethreatening for example bad teeth you aren't covered by the free system

e) going to the doctor will still cost the fuel it takes to get there even if the actually talking to the doctor is free,

[DrP]

Can you not see the problem with that 5worlds? If you charge people to go to the doctors then they will tend not to go unless they feel it is absolutely necessary. You can't tell me there aren't thousands that have suffered because they can't afford the care in your country (or are just too tight to pay).

 

I guess my revulsion of your system is just because I have been lucky to have known the NHS system my entire life. It works well. I like the USA and feel it would seriously benefit from something similar - morally and financially (treat the sick so they don't die so they can carry on paying their taxes or cost you less by treating a sickness before it gets worse and costs more. ).

 

Anyway - I've derailed this thread enough. Sorry. My advice still stands though - Go to the doctor and pester them for a diagnosis until they give you one (if you are lucky enough to live in a country with decent health care - other wise I guess you are on your own )

[Function]

NHS system (...) works well.

 

Well yes it's good for equity in healthcare and has fewer administrative costs than the US, but is prone to perverse incentives: competition between doctors and hospitals is decremented, which is not beneficial at all for quality of healthcare.

 

As per response, private clinics rise. These compete very lively, in favour of quality of healthcare. The problem: not via NHS so declined accessibility and equity in healthcare (expensive), not to mention waiting lists.

 

The UK system is far from perfect.

Edited January 12, 2017 by Function

[DrP]

QUOTE "The UK system is far from perfect"

 

Yes - I agree - any big organisation has corruption and waste - but right now anyone can go to the doctors at any time to get checked out without fear of financial hardship whether they can afford it or not. It takes the decision of "can I afford to go to the doc's?" away from the equation completely.

[Prometheus]

I'd go back to the doctor and keep turning up until they give you some further tests, a firm diagnosis or an injunction to keep away.

 

Please don't do this. You'll likely end up with a prescription you don't need and maybe contribute to anti-bacterial resistance too.

 

You are perfectly entitled to seek 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions though and this would decrease your chances that something is being missed if you really think that is the case - better than harassing the same doc over and over.

 

If you strongly suspect a certain ailment you could also ask for a referral to an appropriate specialist

[Strange]

I'd like to know if your many doctors have told you either 1) there is definitely something wrong with you but they don't know what it is, or 2) they can't find anything physiologically wrong with you. If the answer is 1, you should be able to get referrals to more specialized medicine (although I don't know anything about your healthcare system). If the answer is 2, then you could be exhibiting signs of hypochondria (something also made worse by internet diagnoses). Whether that's true or not, it may be what the doctors think if they can't find anything wrong.

 

 

 

And if it is option 2, then you could ask for referral to a mental health specialist. Thinking you are unwell for psychological reasons can be just as much a real illness as any physical cause. There is not (should not be) any shame in the fact that the root cause is in your brain rather than bacteria or something.

[Phi for All]

Yes - I agree - any big organisation has corruption and waste - but right now anyone can go to the doctors at any time to get checked out without fear of financial hardship whether they can afford it or not. It takes the decision of "can I afford to go to the doc's?" away from the equation completely.

 

In the title is "can't diagnose your condition". Without clarification, it's hard to decide if that means they are unable to figure out the cause of an existing condition, or if they can't find anything wrong that matches the symptoms claimed by the OP. How does the NHS deal with the latter? How many times can you go to the doctor with your complaint and have them find nothing wrong with you?

 

On the other hand, any respectable physician who can observe that there is a problem but has no idea how to treat it would probably refer you.

 

And if it is option 2, then you could ask for referral to a mental health specialist. Thinking you are unwell for psychological reasons can be just as much a real illness as any physical cause. There is not (should not be) any shame in the fact that the root cause is in your brain rather than bacteria or something.

 

Absolutely. Stress like that makes everything harder.

[DrP]

 

In the title is "can't diagnose your condition". Without clarification, it's hard to decide if that means they are unable to figure out the cause of an existing condition, or if they can't find anything wrong that matches the symptoms claimed by the OP. How does the NHS deal with the latter? How many times can you go to the doctor with your complaint and have them find nothing wrong with you?

 

 

I don't know Phi. I do know that some fall the net though unfortunately. I've seen it happen.

[John Cuthber]

 

competition between doctors and hospitals is decremented, which is not beneficial at all for quality of healthcare.

 

Got any evidence for that?

I ask because the Right wing politicians introduced competition; healthcare outcomes became worse because, instead of focusing on treating patients, they focused on gaming better numbers than the "competitors".

It's not like selling groceries; if I'm ill I can't meaningfully "shop around" for a "better" hospital so competition doesn't really help.

[Function]

Got any evidence for that?

I ask because the Right wing politicians introduced competition; healthcare outcomes became worse because, instead of focusing on treating patients, they focused on gaming better numbers than the "competitors".

It's not like selling groceries; if I'm ill I can't meaningfully "shop around" for a "better" hospital so competition doesn't really help.

 

I'll look this up more detailed tomorrow when I come back from my exam.

 

Something that pops up into my mind: hospitals and their doctors may have (in)famous reputations, achieved by (unconscious) competition, which might direct patients towards or away from them.

[StringJunky]

Got any evidence for that?

I ask because the Right wing politicians introduced competition; healthcare outcomes became worse because, instead of focusing on treating patients, they focused on gaming better numbers than the "competitors".

It's not like selling groceries; if I'm ill I can't meaningfully "shop around" for a "better" hospital so competition doesn't really help.

I agree. This trend towards achieving targets in healthcare, education and social services is detrimental to the people that work in them, the people they work with and the community they serve for the reasons you state.Priorities are redirected and wasted towards meeting targets set by financially-minded admin headhunted from unrelated fields who don't have a clue about the needs of the people that work in those fields.

Edited January 12, 2017 by StringJunky

[Phi for All]

I agree. This trend towards achieving targets in healthcare, education and social services is detrimental to the people that work in them, the people they work with and the community they serve for the reasons you state.Priorities are redirected and wasted towards meeting targets set by financially-minded admin headhunted from unrelated fields who don't have a clue about the needs of the people that work in those fields.

 

Don't forget that for most legislation aimed at meeting target numbers for things like healthcare and education, someone affiliated with the legislation will have a relative who just happens to offer courses in how to meet those numbers... for a price. It sure worked for Neil Bush after his brother passed No Child Left Behind.

[StringJunky]

 

Don't forget that for most legislation aimed at meeting target numbers for things like healthcare and education, someone affiliated with the legislation will have a relative who just happens to offer courses in how to meet those numbers... for a price. It sure worked for Neil Bush after his brother passed No Child Left Behind.

When it comes to the areas of social care/education infrastructure, like those I mentioned, that are not amenable to quantifiable metrics, and hence arbitrary targets in terms how we measure success in them, I'm quite the left-winger. Target-driven policies are out of place in these settings. It drives teachers to show their pupils how to pass an exam rather than teach the subject because their future funding depends on it. It encourages 'cooking the books'. It encourages corruption.

Edited January 12, 2017 by StringJunky

[DrP]

When it comes to the areas of social care/education infrastructure, like those I mentioned, that are not amenable to quantifiable metrics, and hence arbitrary targets in terms how we measure success in them, I'm quite the left-winger. Target-driven policies are out of place in these settings. It drives teachers to show their pupils how to pass an exam rather than teach the subject because their future funding depends on it. It encourages 'cooking the books'. It encourages corruption.

Same with police force targets imo.

Edited January 12, 2017 by DrP

[StringJunky]

Same with police force targets imo.

Yes, that's another one.

Edited January 12, 2017 by StringJunky

[Endy0816]

It is possible to go the medical tourism route for some things. I've met a few folks coming here from the UK that way.

 

Competition can bring benefits. Obviously not in all cases though and can't be of an artificial nature.

[fresh]

 

Please don't do this. You'll likely end up with a prescription you don't need and maybe contribute to anti-bacterial resistance too.

 

You are perfectly entitled to seek 2nd, 3rd and 4th opinions though and this would decrease your chances that something is being missed if you really think that is the case - better than harassing the same doc over and over.

 

If you strongly suspect a certain ailment you could also ask for a referral to an appropriate specialist

I couldn't agree more.

 

quote: or 2) they can't find anything physiologically wrong with you.

That they can't find anything physiologically wrong with you doesn't mean you are not physiologically wrong.

 

and 1) there is definitely something wrong with you but they don't know what it is,

Patients fail to get a right diagnosis, which is not unusual.

 

It could be all the doctors you visit are not that experienced even none of them have come across your special case in their whole practice.

 

under this circumstance, what we should do is do our best to improve our medical knowledge;

and write down what we usually do in our life, such as habits, lifestyle, etc.

Before we are lucky to have a good doctor to give us a right diagnosis and treatment it is what we could do.

I didn't see anyone here seeks out help from himself/ herself, it seems only doctors could solve their problems.

 

In some cases, it is the patients and / or their families & friends who figure out what causes the illness, not the doctors.

It is not rare.

so i think discussing the illness and sharing the same experience in the medical forum is not a hurt as long as nonprofessionals don't give any certain diagnosis and treatments.

 

Why Does Water Make Me Sick?

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/19922-why-does-water-make-me-sick/?hl=%2Bwater+%2Bmakes+%2Bsick

 

 

what do you think ?

Edited January 13, 2017 by fresh

[Phi for All]

I couldn't agree more.

 

quote: or 2) they can't find anything physiologically wrong with you.

That they can't find anything physiologically wrong with you doesn't mean you are not physiologically wrong.

 

and 1) there is definitely something wrong with you but they don't know what it is,

Patients fail to get a right diagnosis, which is not unusual.

 

It could be all the doctors you visit are not that experienced even none of them have come across your special case in their whole practice.

 

under this circumstance, what we should do is do our best to improve our medical knowledge;

and write down what we usually do in our life, such as habits, lifestyle, etc.

Before we are lucky to have a good doctor to give us a right diagnosis and treatment it is what we could do.

I didn't see anyone here seeks out help from himself/ herself, it seems only doctors could solve their problems.

 

In some cases, it is the patients and / or their families & friends who figure out what causes the illness, not the doctors.

It is not rare.

so i think discussing the illness and sharing the same experience in the medical forum is not a hurt as long as nonprofessionals don't give any certain diagnosis and treatments.

 

Why Does Water Make Me Sick?

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/19922-why-does-water-make-me-sick/?hl=%2Bwater+%2Bmakes+%2Bsick

 

 

what do you think ?

 

I'm disappointed you chose not to answer the questions, and instead pursue trying to change the rules on dispensing medical advice. We're not going to change. I completely disagree with your contention that self-remedies are something to be encouraged.

 

I'm going to recommend to staff that this be closed now.