Particles and Elements

[Ruca32]

Hey guys. I'm clearly no physicist, but I do have a question on the subject I thought maybe someone here could help me out with.

So I understand that different combinations of particles, -particularly neutrons-, are essentially the equation that adds up to certain elements. My question being, so let's say you have an atom of Iron, with 77 neutrons. Would each neutron particle within the iron atom identify as being iron? Or is a neutron particle simply a neutron particle regardless of the resulting atom?

And I apologize ahead of time if this makes no sense or is a stupid question.

[Sensei]

So I understand that different combinations of particles, -particularly neutrons-, are essentially the equation that adds up to certain elements. My question being, so let's say you have an atom of Iron, with 77 neutrons.

Iron does not have 77 neutrons.

Iron has 26 protons,

in Fe-54 54-26= 28 neutrons,

in Fe-56 56-26= 30 neutrons.

These are the most abundant Iron isotopes.

Also stable are Fe-57 and Fe-58.

 

Would each neutron particle within the iron atom identify as being iron?

Element is defined by quantity of protons, not neutrons.

 

Number of neutrons in different isotopes is variable.

 

If nucleus has too much neutrons, it's unstable, and it will decay by neutron emission, alpha decay or the most typically by beta decay minus.

Rarely by double beta decay minus.

 

Or is a neutron particle simply a neutron particle regardless of the resulting atom?

Neutrons and protons are bound together in nucleus.

If nucleus has too few neutrons, it's also unstable (except H-1 and H-2), and will decay by proton emission, beta decay plus, eventually double beta decay plus, eventually electron capture.

 

If Iron nucleus would have too few neutrons, it couldn't exist, being extremely unstable. Basically unstable particle decays to more stable particle. It could be repeated until finding stability.

Edited January 13, 2017 by Sensei

[Janus]

Hey guys. I'm clearly no physicist, but I do have a question on the subject I thought maybe someone here could help me out with.

So I understand that different combinations of particles, -particularly neutrons-, are essentially the equation that adds up to certain elements. My question being, so let's say you have an atom of Iron, with 77 neutrons. Would each neutron particle within the iron atom identify as being iron? Or is a neutron particle simply a neutron particle regardless of the resulting atom?

And I apologize ahead of time if this makes no sense or is a stupid question.

As already pointed out, its the number of protons that determine the element and not the neutrons. And a proton is a proton no matter what element it is in. And while it is the number of protons that determine the element, it is the electrons that surround the nucleus that are responsible for most of the characteristics we a associate with a element (color, melting point, etc.) The number of protons determines how many electrons the element has, and the manner in which the electrons arrange themselves around the nucleus lead to different properties. Sometimes just adding 1 proton/electron pair to an element can produce a profound change. Adding 1 proton to Carbon, a black solid, turns it into Nitrogen, which is a colorless gas under the same conditions.

[Ruca32]

Wow guys, that's fascinating. I really appreciate both of your answers; extremely helpful. I've always been fascinated by this stuff, but just clearly have no formal education in the subject. Anyways, thanks again.

[studiot]

I like the way this thread panned out. +1 guys.

[StringJunky]

As already pointed out, its the number of protons that determine the element and not the neutrons. And a proton is a proton no matter what element it is in. And while it is the number of protons that determine the element, it is the electrons that surround the nucleus that are responsible for most of the characteristics we a associate with a element (color, melting point, etc.) The number of protons determines how many electrons the element has, and the manner in which the electrons arrange themselves around the nucleus lead to different properties. Sometimes just adding 1 proton/electron pair to an element can produce a profound change. Adding 1 proton to Carbon, a black solid, turns it into Nitrogen, which is a colorless gas under the same conditions.

Is it known why the solid becomes a gas - Carbon to Nitrogen when you add a proton? I appreciate it's likely to do with the extra electron.

Edited January 13, 2017 by StringJunky

[Janus]

Is it known why the solid becomes a gas - Carbon to Nitrogen when you add a proton? I appreciate it's likely to do with the extra electron.

Electrons arrange in shells or energy levels, the lowest shells fill first and then higher. The first shell can hold 2 electrons and the second shell can hold 8. Atoms are 'happiest' when they have a full outer shell. When they don't, they try to make do by forming bonds with other atoms in which they "share" their outer shell electrons.

Carbon has 6 electrons, with 4 in the outer shell. It is easiest for it to share with multiple atoms so that it forms a network of atoms making up a solid. Carbon can do this in a number of ways: More of less randomly as with ordinary coal, forming sheets as with graphite or in a lattice making diamond.

 

Nitrogen has 5 electrons, 3 short of a full shell. At normal temperatures, It is happy sharing three of its outer shell electrons with one other Nitrogen atom forming a diatomic Nitrogen molecule. This is a stable arrangement, so there is no tendency to interact strongly with another molecules, so the individual molecules just bounce around off each other forming a gas. Now there is some inter-molecular forces, and if you lower the temperature enough, the kinetic energy of the molecules becomes small enough that these forces in enough to over come it and you get a liquid rather than a gas.

[StringJunky]

Electrons arrange in shells or energy levels, the lowest shells fill first and then higher. The first shell can hold 2 electrons and the second shell can hold 8. Atoms are 'happiest' when they have a full outer shell. When they don't, they try to make do by forming bonds with other atoms in which they "share" their outer shell electrons.

Carbon has 6 electrons, with 4 in the outer shell. It is easiest for it to share with multiple atoms so that it forms a network of atoms making up a solid. Carbon can do this in a number of ways: More of less randomly as with ordinary coal, forming sheets as with graphite or in a lattice making diamond.

 

Nitrogen has 5 electrons, 3 short of a full shell. At normal temperatures, It is happy sharing three of its outer shell electrons with one other Nitrogen atom forming a diatomic Nitrogen molecule. This is a stable arrangement, so there is no tendency to interact strongly with another molecules, so the individual molecules just bounce around off each other forming a gas. Now there is some inter-molecular forces, and if you lower the temperature enough, the kinetic energy of the molecules becomes small enough that these forces in enough to over come it and you get a liquid rather than a gas.

Cheers. that's a good explanation.