Obama & First Person Pronouns

[Strange]

Obviously, I don't have a horse in this race (as they say) and this ship has sailed (to mix metaphors) but this is an interesting (and bloody annoying) cross-over of politics and science (or lack of).

 

There have been frequent conservative media (is that all the media in the US? I don't know) references to the "fact" that Obama uses a a lot of first person pronouns ("I", "me", "my", etc) and this is a symptom of how self-centred he is. Not surprisingly, this turns out to be bollocks (on both counts). The latest (and possibly last) such story is analysed here:

 

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=30515

 

Whatever your politics, there is no excuse for this sort of reporting. (Note that there have been other (similarly bogus) claims about other politicians (such as Trump, recently) which Language Log have also looked at, if you are interested.)

[Phi for All]

There have been frequent conservative media (is that all the media in the US? I don't know)

 

I would say the media in the US is agendized. First is profit, second is getting across the message your parent corporation wants you to convey. Is it a conservative approach that causes a corporation to deny AGW, or is it profit? Is it a liberal approach to equate all sides in an argument, or is it to make it look like there's more controversy and thus more reason to stay tuned?

 

Both sides of our politics claim the media sides with the other guys, but in reality I think it's just about the money. It's certainly not about keeping us decently informed.

 

It is funny about the personal pronouns though. Exactly the type of thing someone would jump on if they don't like you, but how does anyone get along without using "I" and "me"? Reminds me of a Jim Gaffigan line about the stereotype of cops liking donuts so much and using it against them. You shouldn't do it because you know who else loves donuts? EVERYBODY.

[Strange]

But, in this case, it is worse than that, because when you look at the data you find that cops eat less (fewer, if you insist) donuts than the average citizen. (But you continue to hear the same claims made over and over.)

[Phi for All]

It's ridiculously easy to fool us with lies that sound plausible, or that we can easily imagine. Cops/donuts, politicians/first-person-pronouns, black welfare queen. I think the US media has gotten wicked good at using the fewest words possible to invoke the most emotional responses. They flash "Immigration" across the screen and instantly those viewing know how they'll feel about the ensuing story. And the media knows that a story about a dog rescuing a drowning toddler won't keep you tuned in as long as the story about a cache of automatic weapons found in an urban neighborhood, so if they have to choose, they'll cover the guns.

[waitforufo]

Reminds me of a Jim Gaffigan line about the stereotype of cops liking donuts so much and using it against them. You shouldn't do it because you know who else loves donuts? EVERYBODY.

Like fried chicken and watermelon. Who doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon? Yet, I have been to company picnics where black employees will go hungry instead of eating fried chicken and watermelon due to racist stereotypes.

 

It is funny about the personal pronouns though. Exactly the type of thing someone would jump on if they don't like you, but how does anyone get along without using "I" and "me"?

Many feel it is an indication of narcissism. Using an excess of personal pronouns gives the impression that the speech is all about the speaker. Many also find such a speaking style to be less persuasive than a speech given without the use of personal pronouns. It gives listeners more of an opportunity to to think "you may think that way but I don't."

[Phi for All]

Many feel it is an indication of narcissism. Using an excess of personal pronouns gives the impression that the speech is all about the speaker. Many also find such a speaking style to be less persuasive than a speech given without the use of personal pronouns. It gives listeners more of an opportunity to to think "you may think that way but I don't."

 

And how do you feel about this being used to misinform? It seems pretty disingenuous to count Obama's pronouns like they were off the charts when they were actually below what many politicians use. It's like reporting that Obama increased federal spending to US$3.6T!!! It's true, but it's a lower rate of spending than any other president since Eisenhower.

[Strange]

Many feel it is an indication of narcissism. Using an excess of personal pronouns gives the impression that the speech is all about the speaker. Many also find such a speaking style to be less persuasive than a speech given without the use of personal pronouns. It gives listeners more of an opportunity to to think "you may think that way but I don't."

 

 

1. Obama, in general, used fewer (or no more) first person pronouns than most other presidents and/or candidates. And yet he was consistently accused of doing so (obviously not based on any data).

2. There is no evidence that it is an indication of narcissism. According to the "theory" created by these news outlets, Trump should be far more narcissistic because he uses far more first person pronouns. (And, of course, there is no reason to believe that.)

[StringJunky]

History will show the person he was. What people say now doesn't matter; he and his wife have done their job.

[Strange]

History will show the person he was. What people say now doesn't matter; he and his wife have done their job.

 

 

Yes (probably). But my point was more about made-up factoids, that could be easily checked, being used as a weapon (against anyone) and almost no one bothering to check the actual data.

 

I am more concerned by the lack of critical thinking and analysis than by who happens to be chosen as POTUS.

[Phi for All]

Yes (probably). But my point was more about made-up factoids, that could be easily checked, being used as a weapon (against anyone) and almost no one bothering to check the actual data.

 

I am more concerned by the lack of critical thinking and analysis than by who happens to be chosen as POTUS.

 

Newt Gingrich alluded to this (although he was grateful, not concerned) last summer, when Putin Trump was lying about the crime rates. He stressed that if people FELT crime was on the rise, that was more important than the reality that it wasn't. He went as far as implying that feelings ARE fact.

 

This tactic can help justify a whole lot of miserable, ignorant misthinking anywhere. In our media and our politics, it's unconscionable.

[RiceAWay]

Like fried chicken and watermelon. Who doesn't like fried chicken and watermelon? Yet, I have been to company picnics where black employees will go hungry instead of eating fried chicken and watermelon due to racist stereotypes.

 

Many feel it is an indication of narcissism. Using an excess of personal pronouns gives the impression that the speech is all about the speaker. Many also find such a speaking style to be less persuasive than a speech given without the use of personal pronouns. It gives listeners more of an opportunity to to think "you may think that way but I don't."

 

I grew up in Oakland where the bus system was private and the blacks had to sit in the back of the bus. But this wasn't so much overt racism as standard practice. As a little kid all of the seats in the "white" section would be filled and if I tried to sit in the back of the bus the blacks would yell at me to get out of THEIR section. And at the same time I watched a tired black lady get on the bus and just couldn't face weaving her way through to the back of the bus and see white men get up and offer her their seats and themselves stand. I saw this sort of thing often enough to know that there was little to no real racism though to a black it would most assuredly seem that way after all of the personal insults they had to emdure with standard practice or overt racism.

 

If you saw that rather good movie "Hidden Figures" they showed one of the black ladies having to run across NASA's Houston campus to use the "black" restrooms. When that was brought to the actual attention of management he took a crowbar and tore down the sign. He said EVERYONE uses the toilets. Again that would have looked racist to these black ladies even though it wasn't. It was just the way things had always been done.

 

The dumb white script writer implied that the project manager was racist because he didn't give the black woman math genius credit for her work and instead put his own name on it. What wasn't said because the writer didn't understand it was that he was the team leader and took credit for everyone's work white OR black. Hell, I was instrumental in completing so many projects I can't count them and not ONE time did I ever receive credit for it. On the project where the project head won a Nobel Prize as soon as the project was finished I was laid off as was my partner, one Dr. Michael McCown. We weren't necessary and were an embarrassment to the rest because we completed what was supposed to be a 100 million dollar project for less than 10.

 

So what? There were many more bridges to cross.

 

As for racism? Remember that the south seceded from the Union because they were being heavily taxed for farm products which had little effect on the industrialized north. But the Army of the Union fought to free the slaves since this was being shouted from every pulpit in the north. And in this war to free the slaves 660,000 almost entirely white men gave their lives for destroying the wicked act of slavery forever. I heard that from Dr. Martin Luther King but not from today's black leaders.

[Phi for All]

 

I grew up in Oakland where the bus system was private and the blacks had to sit in the back of the bus. But this wasn't so much overt racism as standard practice. As a little kid all of the seats in the "white" section would be filled and if I tried to sit in the back of the bus the blacks would yell at me to get out of THEIR section. And at the same time I watched a tired black lady get on the bus and just couldn't face weaving her way through to the back of the bus and see white men get up and offer her their seats and themselves stand. I saw this sort of thing often enough to know that there was little to no real racism though to a black it would most assuredly seem that way after all of the personal insults they had to emdure with standard practice or overt racism.

 

If you saw that rather good movie "Hidden Figures" they showed one of the black ladies having to run across NASA's Houston campus to use the "black" restrooms. When that was brought to the actual attention of management he took a crowbar and tore down the sign. He said EVERYONE uses the toilets. Again that would have looked racist to these black ladies even though it wasn't. It was just the way things had always been done.

 

The dumb white script writer implied that the project manager was racist because he didn't give the black woman math genius credit for her work and instead put his own name on it. What wasn't said because the writer didn't understand it was that he was the team leader and took credit for everyone's work white OR black. Hell, I was instrumental in completing so many projects I can't count them and not ONE time did I ever receive credit for it. On the project where the project head won a Nobel Prize as soon as the project was finished I was laid off as was my partner, one Dr. Michael McCown. We weren't necessary and were an embarrassment to the rest because we completed what was supposed to be a 100 million dollar project for less than 10.

 

So what? There were many more bridges to cross.

 

As for racism? Remember that the south seceded from the Union because they were being heavily taxed for farm products which had little effect on the industrialized north. But the Army of the Union fought to free the slaves since this was being shouted from every pulpit in the north. And in this war to free the slaves 660,000 almost entirely white men gave their lives for destroying the wicked act of slavery forever. I heard that from Dr. Martin Luther King but not from today's black leaders.

 

Those are all excellent examples of the ways many people misuse anecdotal evidence to confirm their own biases.

[CharonY]

Not to mention anecdotes that on first sight are rather unusual. Nobel immediately after conclusion of a project? 100 mio project with only one head? No credits of the co-workers? In any of the publications?

[DianeG]

I used to see that conservative claim as well. It really seems to ignore the rest of the content. Trump is constantly bragging, congratulating himself, reminding everyone how smart he is, how popular he is, how rich and successful he is. And he does this when it hardly seems relevant to the topic at hand - like in front of the CIA or when he was with Netanyahu.

 

When Obama did use the I pronoun, often it was in the form of something like "I think..." which if anything allows for the possibility that others might reach a different conclusion and demonstrates a certain humility.