Why can a woman sue a man for child support in rape cases?

[Raider5678]

So, if a woman rapes an underage male and she becomes pregnant, she legally has the right to sue the kid for child support. Same as raping a male, but that's basically unheard of, more often it being a young boy. What is the reasoning for this? Do you guys agree with this? Maybe I'm a bigot but that seems stupid to me. So someone justify this to me.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer

I know it's wikipedia, but the sources do match up and this basically sums it up. The court legally ruled that a woman can sue the father for child support regardless of whether it was due to illegal crime.

 

 

 

Also, might I point out they can sue sperm donors, even if they STOLE the sperm from the sperm bank.

Edited January 26, 2017 by Raider5678

[waitforufo]

So, if a woman rapes an underage male and she becomes pregnant, she legally has the right to sue the kid for child support. Same as raping a male, but that's basically unheard of, more often it being a young boy. What is the reasoning for this? Do you guys agree with this? Maybe I'm a bigot but that seems stupid to me. So someone justify this to me.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer

I know it's wikipedia, but the sources do match up and this basically sums it up. The court legally ruled that a woman can sue the father for child support regardless of whether it was due to illegal crime.

 

 

 

Also, might I point out they can sue sperm donors, even if they STOLE the sperm from the sperm bank.

Because parents are expected to support their children. This by the way includes married men who's spouses were impregnated by other men either by consent or rape.

 

The financial needs of the child out way that of adults involved.

[Raider5678]

Because parents are expected to support their children. This by the way includes married men who's spouses were impregnated by other men either by consent or rape.

 

The financial needs of the child out way that of adults involved.

So.

If you were drugged and rape.

You feel you should be responsible for the child?

 

Glad you feel that way. I'm just gonna be a selfish bastard and say I don't want that responsibility unless I had a choice of taking the risk.

[fiveworlds]

The financial needs of the child out way that of adults involved.

 

 

Could you not argue that the child should be put up for adoption on the basis that you believe the woman is an unfit mother and you are not in a position to be supporting the financial needs of the child??

[Raider5678]

 

Could you not argue that the child should be put up for adoption on the basis that you believe the woman is an unfit mother and you are not in a position to be supporting the financial needs of the child??

I would hope so. But since that kid got stuck with paying it I'm assuming his parents helped him out with it until he grew up and from there he probably had to skip college to continue paying it. If he didn't, he could get in serious trouble.

[waitforufo]

So.

If you were drugged and rape.

You feel you should be responsible for the child?

 

Glad you feel that way. I'm just gonna be a selfish bastard and say I don't want that responsibility unless I had a choice of taking the risk.

Perhaps you should think of it more from the perspective of the child. Sure, I crime was committed against you, but was the child to blame? Why should the child be punished? Are you not be the child's parent? Would you let your child live in poverty because you were the victim of a crime committed by someone else? You would really feel no responsibility for your own progeny?

 

With regard to being responsible for children produced through sperm donation, isn't donating sperm an intentional act of procreation? Are you not responsible for your intentional acts?

Edited January 26, 2017 by waitforufo

[Raider5678]

1.Perhaps you should think of it more from the perspective of the child. Sure, I crime was committed against you, but was the child to blame? Why should the child be punished? Are you not be the child's parent? Would you let your child live in poverty because you were the victim of a crime committed by someone else? You would really feel no responsibility for your own progeny?

 

2.With regard to being responsible for children produced through sperm donation, isn't donating sperm an intentional act of procreation? Are you not responsible for your intentional acts?

1.Could the state not pay for it? I mean, I'm only 14. There's very little I could do to pay child support. My parents can't afford it either as we're just barely getting by just like everyone else around us. So no help from my parents, no help from people around me, now I have legal consequences for not being able to pay child support. Which I don't think is fair. Additionally, dropping out of school isn't an option for me to get work, and even if I did my life is basically ruined there. So wouldn't it be better to make the state pay for it since "Why should the child be punished?"?

 

2. The idea behind donating sperm is that you shouldn't have any liability as you are simply trying to help a couple have children. If they break up, their partner, the previous legal guardian, should have to pay child support.

[swansont]

So, if a woman rapes an underage male and she becomes pregnant, she legally has the right to sue the kid for child support. Same as raping a male, but that's basically unheard of, more often it being a young boy. What is the reasoning for this? Do you guys agree with this? Maybe I'm a bigot but that seems stupid to me. So someone justify this to me.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hermesmann_v._Seyer

I know it's wikipedia, but the sources do match up and this basically sums it up. The court legally ruled that a woman can sue the father for child support regardless of whether it was due to illegal crime.

 

Your link explains the reasoning.

 

"Seyer had actually given consent to the acts under civil law"

 

Also, might I point out they can sue sperm donors, even if they STOLE the sperm from the sperm bank.

Successfully? In most cases, this isn't true. It depends on the laws of the state and circumstances of the pregnancy.

[Raider5678]

"Seyer had actually given consent to the acts under civil law"

Well if a grown adult male had sex with an underage girl, I think you would still see it as rape as well as disgusting. I agree with you, he gave consent so he had a choice so in my opinion maybe he did have it coming. But regardless, the law still stands. The mother can sue the father for child support regardless if the child was conceived in a legal manner or not. Statutory rape and rape are both legally considered rape.

Also, this brings up an interesting point for a different thread.

[waitforufo]

 

Could you not argue that the child should be put up for adoption on the basis that you believe the woman is an unfit mother and you are not in a position to be supporting the financial needs of the child??

This is possible but difficult. Even if the mother was required to involuntarily terminate there parental rights, I'm not sure that necessarily releases the father. My guess is the father would have to do that voluntarily. In your rape example where the father is known, I don't see that as a problem if that is his desire. The father could also choose to keep the child.

 

http://family.findlaw.com/adoption/birth-parent-rights.html

 

 

Involuntary Termination

Unlike voluntary termination, there are times when birth parents rights can be terminated involuntarily if certain conditions are met. For involuntary termination, most states look to the best interest of the child and determine whether specific reasons exist to end the biological parent-child relationship.

The most common grounds for involuntary termination of parental rights include:

• Severe child abuse or neglect of the child
• Mental illness or incapacity based on alcohol or drug use of the parent
• Abandonment
• Conviction of a crime by the parent involving children
• Conviction of a crime by the parent requiring jail time beyond which time would negatively impact the child

Timing

Depending on the state, the exact moment that birth parents rights may be terminated can range anywhere from immediately after a child's birth to up to 30 days thereafter (or more in limited cases.) Therefore, because terminating parental rights is a serious matter, most states have strict timing requirements that must be met before a birth parent's rights can be terminated.

 

 

 

1.Could the state not pay for it? I mean, I'm only 14. There's very little I could do to pay child support. My parents can't afford it either as we're just barely getting by just like everyone else around us. So no help from my parents, no help from people around me, now I have legal consequences for not being able to pay child support. Which I don't think is fair. Additionally, dropping out of school isn't an option for me to get work, and even if I did my life is basically ruined there. So wouldn't it be better to make the state pay for it since "Why should the child be punished?"?

 

2. The idea behind donating sperm is that you shouldn't have any liability as you are simply trying to help a couple have children. If they break up, their partner, the previous legal guardian, should have to pay child support.

 

1. Yeah, it sucks to be a victim of crime. Why would the state be responsible? Why should others, tax payers, be forced to take on your parental responsibility? Even if you have current financial difficulties, is their not public assistance that you can access during your financial difficulties? After your difficulties are over however, you may still be held responsible.

 

2. In the case of adoption, the adoptive parents are both responsible for there adopted children after divorce. I'm not sure, but sperm donation may be different. Perhaps the non birth giving parent would have to adopt your child to insure full release a financial responsibility and you would have to voluntarily give up your parental rights. I have never donated sperm, but my guess is voluntarily giving up your parental rights is part of the process.

Edited January 27, 2017 by waitforufo

[zapatos]

So, if a woman rapes an underage male and she becomes pregnant, she legally has the right to sue the kid for child support.

 

Don't confuse having the right to sue with actually winning a suit.

 

I have the right to sue YOU for child support for the children my wife and I conceived, but that doesn't mean I'll win the suit.

[Raider5678]

1. Yeah, it sucks to be a victim of crime. Why would the state be responsible? Why should others, tax payers, be forced to take on your parental responsibility? Even if you have current financial difficulties, is their not public assistance that you can access during your financial difficulties? After your difficulties are over however, you may still be held responsible.

Why should I be forced to take on parental responsibility? I had no choice in the matter.

[swansont]

Well if a grown adult male had sex with an underage girl, I think you would still see it as rape as well as disgusting. I agree with you, he gave consent so he had a choice so in my opinion maybe he did have it coming. But regardless, the law still stands. The mother can sue the father for child support regardless if the child was conceived in a legal manner or not. Statutory rape and rape are both legally considered rape.

Also, this brings up an interesting point for a different thread.

In Kansas, and if the father gives civil consent. That's all you've shown.

[Raider5678]

 

Don't confuse having the right to sue with actually winning a suit.

 

I have the right to sue YOU for child support for the children my wife and I conceived, but that doesn't mean I'll win the suit.

Very true.

 

In Kansas, and if the father gives civil consent. That's all you've shown.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/

https://nationalparentsorganization.org/blog/841-on-courts-ordering-b-841

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/1996-12-22/features/9612220045_1_pay-child-support-child-support-behalf

[waitforufo]

Why should I be forced to take on parental responsibility? I had no choice in the matter.

If you were a victim of a random assault and as a result you lost an eye, did you have a choice in the matter? Can the state return to you a functioning eye? In the rape case in question, the victim was assaulted and received a financial burden. What's the difference? Again, it sucks to be a victim of crime.

[Raider5678]

If you were a victim of a random assault and as a result you lost an eye, did you have a choice in the matter? Can the state return to you a functioning eye? In the rape case in question, the victim was assaulted and received a financial burden. What's the difference? Again, it sucks to be a victim of crime.

Because the state can't return a functioning eye. Besides, losing a functioning eye won't ruin my ability to get a high school education, won't ruin me for the rest of my life as I work to pay it off.

Getting raped and having a child is a different scenario too. The state is punishing me for something that happened. It's a result of what the state decided to do, and that was to force me to pay child support. So not only was I raped, but now I'm going to be forced to pay for it to. Pretend the gender of the person who carries the child was flipped and it was the guy. Say I raped a 13 year old girl and got pregnant. Would you feel perfectly okay with me suing her for child support because "It sucks to be a victim of crime"?

There are differences.

There are consequences to crime.

But throwing the consequences back at the victim to handle seems like a way to simply get rid of the problem, not a good one.

[Endy0816]

Agreed, they could definitely keep you from having to pay your rapist for years.

Edited January 27, 2017 by Endy0816

[Lizza]

 It's a form of child abuse and giving the child abuser an award. No, a 14 year old should not be responsible for getting an adult woman pregnant. The bigger the age gap the more disturbing it is. Like if the woman is 21 or 25 or 30 let's say. She should be in prison like all other female sex offenders and the baby given up for adoption by the state or raised by family (the woman's family). I'm sure that some boys that were sued for child support were as young as 12 or 10. Women's rights go too far sometimes. I can't believe feminists attack children like that. 

[J.C.MacSwell]

On 1/26/2017 at 8:21 PM, zapatos said:

 

Don't confuse having the right to sue with actually winning a suit.

 

I have the right to sue YOU for child support for the children my wife and I conceived, but that doesn't mean I'll win the suit.

I don't think you can actually do that. Outside of some reasonable line of blame (e.g. someone tampered with your birth control) no court would hear it.

 

[zapatos]

1 hour ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I don't think you can actually do that. Outside of some reasonable line of blame (e.g. someone tampered with your birth control) no court would hear it.

 

To the best of my knowledge it's a lawsuit once you file the papers, which then requires the selection of a judge and a response by the defendant. You are being "sued" whether the case makes it to trial or not.

Edited September 19, 2018 by zapatos

[J.C.MacSwell]

On 9/19/2018 at 9:28 AM, zapatos said:

To the best of my knowledge it's a lawsuit once you file the papers, which then requires the selection of a judge and a response by the defendant. You are being "sued" whether the case makes it to trial or not.

Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

[mistermack]

As far as I'm concerned, this is another case of the USA having ludicrous law in place. How can a 13 year old child be considered to have given civil or criminal consent? It's making a joke of the law. He can't legally consent for criminal purposes, but he can for civil purposes. The law is a joke. 

If you are going to say that a 16 year old girl is under age for sex, then she can't consent either. If the legislators think that 13 and 16 year olds can be held responsible, then they should be lowering the age of consent. At present, the message is "you can't consent, unless it is going to cost us money, in which case, you did consent".

Ludicrous.

[zapatos]

I suspect that every jurisdiction in the world has laws that are outdated or used in a way not intended. It would be shocking if there were NOT any laws that were ludicrous.

[Raider5678]

9 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I suspect that every jurisdiction in the world has laws that are outdated or used in a way not intended. It would be shocking if there were NOT any laws that were ludicrous.

Agreed. Often as well, there are simply unintended consequences to laws that seemed logical until we saw them play out.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

[zapatos]

36 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Agreed. Often as well, there are simply unintended consequences to laws that seemed logical until we saw them play out.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing.

Right. And in fact, this law may be very reasonable and loved by almost everyone. I don't suspect it was written to ensure that minors who are victims of crime are required to pay the criminal money for 18 years.