Reality of God....

[Ten oz]

....the bible states time & again we can only truly know God by His revealing Himself to us. That being the case, is there any sense in discussions of belief in a Creator or the alternative of nothing + lots of time ='s everything.

If not Supernaturally drawn to Him one won't see that science does nothing but prove His existence or the other side of the coin, there is no need of breaking away from the popular stream of conscience as chance is the queen of science with no room for the chance of a Creator.

What do you think?

Can you prove a connection between god and the authorship of the bible? if "the bible states" is to be the foundation of an idea then the bible should at least be a known trusted source. Who wrote Genesis?

[Air Between The Notes]

The Bible is the inspired Word of God. He spoke through the pen of Moses for Genesis. It all starts with asking God for Him to Reveal to you whether any of it is real with a humble genuine heart looking for the Truth to the question of the reality of it all but it must be a honest searching for His Revelation from Him & not childish attitudes.

[pzkpfw]

So the bible is the word of god, because it says so, and any disagreement is pre-determined to be childish.

 

Impeccable logic.

[Air Between The Notes]

We are talking of clay telling the Potter He doesn't exist as He forms us in His hands....kind of childish. It's not an attach or put down to non belief just our finiteness compared to Infinite Perfection, how can we begin to get our heads wrapped around such Power?

[iNow]

Interesting you mention the Potter. I was just thinking that, by your logic, wizards are real and Harry (Potter) is one of them. After all, the book says so.

[Air Between The Notes]

Sure, that works & so ask our various book writers to show us of their existence in the runnings of this world in all honesty & sift through the results.

[Ten oz]

The Bible is the inspired Word of God. He spoke through the pen of Moses for Genesis. It all starts with asking God for Him to Reveal to you whether any of it is real with a humble genuine heart looking for the Truth to the question of the reality of it all but it must be a honest searching for His Revelation from Him & not childish attitudes.

What evidence of this do you have? You can no more prove Moses existed than you can that he was inspired by God. Your opening statement in the OP should read "the bible states time & again we can only truly have faith in God if we believe he is revealing Himself to us". Because your entire perspective is based in faith. Moses is not a historical figure whom you can prove existed neither is Noah, Adam & Eve, or etc.

 

The OP in this thread seems to be saying that if we choose to believe in god we can do so without allowing science to be a barrier. I agree. One can make the choice to believe in god(s) and not allow evidence to diminish ones beliefs. However the opposite is not true. In Science evidence cannot be ignored in favor of faith.

[dimreepr]

The Bible is the inspired Word of God. He spoke through the pen of Moses for Genesis. It all starts with asking God for Him to Reveal to you whether any of it is real with a humble genuine heart looking for the Truth to the question of the reality of it all but it must be a honest searching for His Revelation from Him & not childish attitudes.

 

The NT has plenty of inspirational wisdom, that is lost because of people like you and the childish insistence that a magic fairy is responsible; if you really new god you'd proselytes about the message not the postman.

Edited February 5, 2017 by dimreepr

[Air Between The Notes]

Faith is the key boys in any religion including much of science based hypotheses.

[dimreepr]

Faith is the key boys in any religion including much of science based hypotheses.

 

You only need faith when you don't understand the message.

[Ten oz]

Faith is the key boys in any religion including much of science based hypotheses.

Which specific hyptheses in science do you think are faith based?

[Air Between The Notes]

Nothing x's by 20 billion yrs (& growing) ='s EVERYTHING!, everything has continued as it is forever (almost) & so we can base all of our projections on such a timing, fossils (dead things) were laid down over long periods of time & that such a thing is even possible (one body at a time coming to rest over long periods to pile up into such large fields of bones in rock), that the mathematical averages are even remotely possible for evolution, all the Intelligent Design seen in EVERYTHING is just by chance ( as if a scrap metal pile could evolve into a 747 with it's 6million parts or an explosion in a printing shop filled with paper, ink & random printing blocks could land into your hands a complete dictionary), where did all the information come from in the 1st place to put a simple cell together as in not just the parts but all the sub parts & info needed to assemble the subassemblies needed to come up with the finished product, that it could come about out of a primordial pool on it's own (Darwin had no idea of what a cell really was & was challenged by his conscience continually that it could all fall apart in the simplest of cases), how does his jelly in a pocket theory not be fried by the sun's UV's, that all of the guys postulating these original ideals that we are building everything on top of or out of were very clear that the reason they were doing it was to be free of God as Creator & not have to bend their knee to His protective laws for us....that's a start for you.

[Strange]

How is this incoherent stream of consciousness drivel an answer to anything you have been asked?

 

It seems to indicate serious brain damage rather than attempt at intelligent discussion.

[Air Between The Notes]

You asked which ones I am challenged with & so I answered you, dig in & see for yourself or stay where you find your comfort my friend.

[Phi for All]

How is this incoherent stream of consciousness drivel an answer to anything you have been asked?

 

It seems to indicate serious brain damage rather than attempt at intelligent discussion.

 

You don't have folks like this in the UK? This is a mishmash of sermons, misunderstood "common sense", and canned arguments from the folks at the Creationist Museum that removed the hipbones from their whale exhibit.

 

To call it drivel is an insult to good drivel. This is more like the Cheez Whiz of fundamentalist filosophy.

[Sensei]

It's why we worry someone like you or Sarah Palin could get codes to nuclear missiles and decide that it's Armageddon time, and you might kill us all because you thought your god(s) wanted you to.

 

Your faith scares rational people.

 

That reminds me one (controversial) imam, who has been asked by western reporter, what for Iran needs nuclear weapon, after all they cannot use it...

He looked surprised.. and answered something like "who would like to have AK-47 at home and not being able to use it?! That's crazy rubbish! Of course we would use it, on our enemies!"..

Reporter (even more surprised by reply) "that's why western countries disallow you to have nuclear weapon, because you would certainly use it..."

 

He was so off, he couldn't even grasp idea of weapons that cannot never ever being used..

Edited February 6, 2017 by Sensei

[Air Between The Notes]

I understand that challenging the status quo is hard, I have been there myself & learned much from looking deeper (which is really just the simplest of things on the surface), are we using any kind of true science in the assessing of the world around us, we have to give the fundamental doctrines that "scientific"theories are based on a walk around. Now "if" one sees no holes in the theories that everything is built on & no need for such order, complexity, probability, beauty & logic to point towards a thought out processing of building & are able to swallow oder out of nothing with no original input of information to build it all then....take ahold of your faith & live out your religion because either way we will need to do just that no matter which side of the outcome we land on as faith is needed unless you want to just completely give up all logic & common sense.

Edited February 5, 2017 by Air Between The Notes

[Moontanman]

I understand that challenging the status quo is hard, I have been there myself & learned much from looking deeper (which is really just the simplest of things on the surface), are we using any kind of true science in the assessing of the world around us, we have to give the fundamental doctrines that "scientific"theories are based on a walk around. Now "if" one sees no holes in the theories that everything is built on & no need for such order, complexity, probability, beauty & logic to point towards a thought out processing of building & are able to swallow oder out of nothing with no original input of information to build it all then....take ahold of your faith & live out your religion because either way we will need to do just that no matter which side of the outcome we land on as faith is needed unless you want to just completely give up all logic & common sense.

 

 

Allyou can do is insult us and assume we haven't looked into the god thing? Faith is not allowed in science, only repeatable experiments. Logic and common sense tell me that science being the single path to truth and religion failing on all counts. I choose the reality I can demonstrate and reproduce to show others.

 

Faith allows you to believe in anything from invisible dragons to pixies, faith is the most dishonest path to follow..

[Air Between The Notes]

...and yet faith is very mu called into the idea of the odds of evolution in the 1st place, nothing x's by 20billion yrs ='s everything, where did the information come from in the 1st place to make proteins or organize them, empowering chance as a causal force, so much Data needed & out of thin air? we have never seen fossils formed except via an event like Mt. Saint Hellene & yet the giant fossil fields around the earth were laid down on fish & a time over many, many years, everything has remained the same forever & therefore we can extrapolate over great amounts of time something we have never actually witnessed because we KNOW everything is as it has always been, etc, etc...it just goes on & on needing so much faith to accept the basic building blocks it is all built upon. That is pseudoscience as true science builds upon or measure what is observable & repeatable not ideas of something we can't reproduce which is a faith in end in a religion just the same as any other religion's need of a certain amount of faith to follow.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Air Between The Notes

[Sensei]

I understand that challenging the status quo is hard, I have been there myself & learned much from looking deeper (which is really just the simplest of things on the surface), are we using any kind of true science in the assessing of the world around us, we have to give the fundamental doctrines that "scientific"theories are based on a walk around. Now "if" one sees no holes in the theories that everything is built on & no need for such order, complexity, probability, beauty & logic to point towards a thought out processing of building & are able to swallow oder out of nothing with no original input of information to build it all then....take ahold of your faith & live out your religion because either way we will need to do just that no matter which side of the outcome we land on as faith is needed unless you want to just completely give up all logic & common sense.

 

The closer you're, the smarter you're, the more you understand, and the more you are able to do by your self..

 

Can you create antimatter? No?

At least calculate how much energy do you need to create antimatter? No?

Can you transform one element to other element? No?

etc. etc.

If you cannot do even above, you're tremendously very very far from the truth...

 

Actually, you didn't even start journey to find your God..

If God created entire Universe, and you don't know, don't understand how Universe is working... Are not you simply insulting your God?

If God is father/mother, and he/she/it would have children, who are not interested in his/her work, wouldn't he/she/it be upset/disappointed by lack of interest/ignorance.. ?

Edited February 6, 2017 by Sensei

[Air Between The Notes]

We should definitely be looking into how it all works but do we look over fundamental building blocks in order to support a particular theory we want to hold onto or go beyond ourselves? That is my challenge here, move beyond a desire to see everything though sunglasses who's shading only allows for chance causing everything when design is so evident. Do we say we looking at a tuba? Someone designed that thing & experience shows us it is used for making musical sounds. What do we say when looking at a skyscraper with all of it's glass, metal & cement formed into something pleasing to look at? Someone designed it & after walking around inside to even more wonders we understand it's workings & functions we see even more design! Then off to the airport & seeing the people load onto a 747 with all of it's 6million parts, watch it taxi out & takeoff into the air do we wonder after seeing & feeling it's power do we say "Wow! What a wonder of evolutionary chance!",? No we see design or what about a cloned sheep do we stand in awe at how the animal made a carbon copy of it's self? No, we see higher intelligence has studied systems & applied the knowledge learned.

[Sensei]

We should definitely be looking into how it all works

Then why don't you start it.. ?

 

but do we look over fundamental building blocks in order to support a particular theory we want to hold onto or go beyond ourselves?

That's not how it works..

Scientists dream about overthrowing somebody else theory. That would give them worldwide recognition and credibility and perhaps Nobel prize..

 

You can't overthrow f.e. existence of electrons, positrons, alpha particles, protons, muons, pions, kaons,

as they're visible by naked eye.. in Cloud Chamber.. which you can build by yourself for $50 or less.. and see and detect by yourself..

 

 

 

 

That is my challenge here, move beyond a desire to see everything though sunglasses who's shading only allows for chance causing everything when design is so evident. Do we say we looking at a tuba? Someone designed that thing & experience shows us it is used for making musical sounds. What do we say when looking at a skyscraper with all of it's glass, metal & cement formed into something pleasing to look at? Someone designed it & after walking around inside to even more wonders we understand it's workings & functions we see even more design! Then off to the airport & seeing the people load onto a 747 with all of it's 6million parts, watch it taxi out & takeoff into the air do we wonder after seeing & feeling it's power do we say "Wow! What a wonder of evolutionary chance!",? No we see design or what about a cloned sheep do we stand in awe at how the animal made a carbon copy of it's self? No, we see higher intelligence has studied systems & applied the knowledge learned.

That's WOW because you don't understand how it works..

Start from fusion to learn how different elements join together to larger elements and isotopes..

 

Then study how elements are attracting electrons, and becoming electric neutral,

then how they are becoming magnetic neutral, when their spins are in appropriate configurations..

Edited February 6, 2017 by Sensei

[Air Between The Notes]

...& this is life as we see it from nothing? Without any information to start building from to boot? No, your examples are learning & applying said learning, that is completely different.

[Sensei]

...& this is life as we see it from nothing? Without any information to start building from to boot?

Who said so they are from nothing.. ?

 

If photon (light) is changed to pair of matter-antimatter, in pair production,

it's not "nothing changed to something"..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pair_production

 

No, your examples are learning & applying said learning, that is completely different.

But still, you didn't bother to learn them..

Edited February 6, 2017 by Sensei

[paragaster]

People refuse to believe that Nature is powerful enough to cause what people term "supernatural". All religions claim to know the mind of God and say that their doctrines are commandments or will of God. People who claim to have spoken with God are in fact stating that they were "inspired" by HIM. In Hinduism such inspiration is called "Para vani", that which comes from your soul(???). The Aryans were nature worshippers and their "Gods" very much reflect this fact.

God made circumcision in Muslims compulsory for men. Why did God not create circumcised men. HE was powerful enough to do it. Does it mean HIS creation is not perfect? All the doctrine was given by humans for humans. People were slaughtered in the name of God.

God is only a abstract mythical entity.