Randolpin Posted February 6, 2017 Author Posted February 6, 2017 I confess that one thing I deplore is the arrogance of such missionaries to think that their totally irrational beliefs are superior to the totally irrational beliefs of others. Having such beliefs is one thing, but foisting them onto others using blackmailing threats of hell and damnation is despicable. In what way is Christianity superior to any other religion? (Other than Islam, which to me is even worse) If you say that it is because it is true, then please provide some evidence. My friend, Christianity is superior to other religion because it worships the true God.I know that Christianity is true because God Spirit lives in me and assures me that it is true and you can know that it is true too, because God is knocking on your heart.If you sincerely seek Him then He will give you the assurance that the gospel is true.Now to try to show you that it is true, I'll share with you some arguments and evidence that I really find convincing. But should my arguments seem weak and unconvincing, that's my fault, not God's. Whatever you think about my arguments, God still loves you and holds you accountable. I'll do my best to present good arguments to you. But ultimately, you have to deal not with arguments, but with God Himself.
Strange Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 God test those Christians on how great their faith is by letting evil on their lives. So when people die in natural disasters, it is because they have been bad? And that is also true of children and infants? How bad can a baby have been in a few months to deserve to be killed in a tsunami? 1
DrKrettin Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 My friend, Christianity is superior to other religion because it worships the true God.I ......But should my arguments seem weak and unconvincing, that's my fault, But you don't HAVE any arguments. 2
Strange Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 My friend, Christianity is superior to other religion because it worships the true God.I know that Christianity is true because God Spirit lives in me and assures me that it is true But people who believe in other gods may be equally convinced that their believe is right and yours is wrong. So why should I believe you and not them? But ultimately, you have to deal not with arguments, but with God Himself. Great. Tell him to come and make his case (next time you speak to him). So far he has been a bit aloof and cowardly. I think he is afraid he would lose any logical argument. His only argument is: "believe in me or I will kill you". To which I say: "push off, you big bully". 2
DrmDoc Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 What is the exact reason why they don;t believe? Because I don't require fairytales or allegories to compel my morality or to assuage my fears, anxieties, or uncertainties.
Arete Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 What we experience now- sufferings, famines is just the consequence of the disobedience of our first parents. So, even if, as you say, the original sin created all the suffering in the world today (as opposed to the myriad of conditions outside of human control that result in suffering), our omnipotent God, sat on his hands and watched it happen for several millennia, which rather negates omnibenevolence. Why? collective punishment of an entire species for hundreds of generations based on a single action by two individuals?
iNow Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 (edited) God test those Christians on how great their faith is by letting evil on their lives. But we all know God is not the author of evil. He only let evil (since there is already evil in this world) as a diagnose of how great the faith of a Christian is. Amidst all this sufferings, the true Christian will flourished because of his great faith in God. By this,we see that all things work together for the good of a Christian. He proves himself that he is really a child of God. We also experience evil or sufferings in our lives to let us remind that there is a God when there are times that we forgotten Him. Here's what you'd have to believe to be a theist (I've already shown the absurdity of deism, I hope). To be a theist you'd have to believe this: How long do you think, ladies and gentlemen—I have three minutes, I shan't—I won't need them all—how long do you think the human species as a distinct Homo sapiens has been on the planet? Any one want to shout a guess? Ok, well Richard Dawkins thinks 250,000 years (a quarter of a million). That's considered to be on the high end. Francis Collins, who's become a friend of mine, a very devout Christian, who, as you will know, sequenced the human genome project and did the final report on the full-out discovery of that unravelment which showed us our kinship with other creatures and indeed with other non creatures, other forms of vegetation and junk that's in our—that undoubtedly proves us to be part of the creational soup, he thinks minimum 100,000. He's not quite sure if it's 250,000. Alright, I only need 100,000. 100,000 years since we dared to separate from, became separate from the Cro-magnons and the Neanderthals as our own species, Homo sapiens. Here's what you'd have to believe to be a theist: For 100,000 years humanity is born, perhaps 25% of it dies in childbirth or very shortly afterwards. Life expectancy, I don't know, 25 for a very long time, infant mortality extraordinary, but after-childbirth deaths I mean, killed by microorganisms we didn't know existed, by earthquakes that we thought were portense, by storms that we didn't know came from our climate system, by other events that arise from our being born onto a cooling planet with deep cracks in its crust—faults in its crust. Then man-made things: turf wars, fights over women, fights over territory, over food, so on. Very, very slow, gradual, exponential upward progress we might like to think. Pretty slow, but at least we can claim out of our own self respect, man-made. And for the first 96,000 years of this experience heaven watches with folded arms, us go through this, with indifference, without pity and then around 4,000 years ago decides, "Gee, it's time to intervene. And the best way of doing that would probably be in Bronze Age Middle East, making appearances to stupified, illiterate peasants, which could later be passed on. The news would get to China after about a thousand years after that." That's what you have to believe. Aren't you glad you can't be made to believe that? Aren't you glad there's no theocracy any more within range of you that can make you believe that? Do you know what it's like living in countries where you can be made to believe it? Do you know what the penalties are for not believing it? They're just exactly congruent with the stupidity of the belief itself. We would be better off, ladies and gentlemen, if we grew out of it. Edited February 6, 2017 by iNow 1
EvanF Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 Randolphin. By "God" I'm assuming you are referring to the middle eastern deity known as 'yahweh' in the bible? (little known to most christians, the hebrew 'name of God' is actually a secret word and is never to be spoken.) In that case...I must ask...Why don't you believe in Odin?
Delta1212 Posted February 6, 2017 Posted February 6, 2017 God never lied. It is spiritual death. Our spiritual relationship with God was cut.Physical death only follows as what humanity undergoes now. He gave an order to two people who had been intentionally created, by him, to be incapable of understanding the difference between right and wrong, and then punished them for predictably failing to listen to him. 2
kevingarcia117 Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) I find the notion of the specific God described in the Bible dumbfounded. I find a very small portion of anything written in the Bible to be even slightly correct (an example of such things that I DO find correct are the existence of certain persons, including Jesus and Pontius Pilate and the event of Jesus' crucifixion; I do, however, deny that Jesus was the so-called "Messiah" or "Son of God" or whatever you want to call him). According to the Bible, the Earth is only in between 6,000 and 10,000 years old, despite the fact that science has proven otherwise. The ideas in the Bible directly contrast evolution, and I do not agree with them. And I find the notion of God having a "plan" for all of us ridiculous. Does he plan for all of those stillborns to die? How about those innocent women being raped across the world? How about the slaves that there beaten and murdered by their owners in the 19th century? You say that your "God" loves us humans, and yet, he does nothing to prove it to us. I do, however, believe that there is (or perhaps "was, at some point") a supreme entity that created the universe, but I do not believe (if he still exists and is present here in this universe) that he interacts with the universe he has created. I suppose that would be called deism, wouldn't it? That's just me. If I'm wrong, well all right then. But until someone can definitively prove me wrong, I'm sticking to this. Edited February 7, 2017 by kevingarcia117 3
Prometheus Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 But until someone can definitively prove me wrong, I'm sticking to this. That's your prerogative, i just wonder why you can't take the neutral position of 'don't know'. Not to say you can't speculate, but to take a definitive position based on a flimsy of thought seems counter-productive.
Phi for All Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 I do, however, believe that there is (or perhaps "was, at some point") a supreme entity that created the universe, but I do not believe (if he still exists and is present here in this universe) that he interacts with the universe he has created. I suppose that would be called deism, wouldn't it? That's just me. If I'm wrong, well all right then. But until someone can definitively prove me wrong, I'm sticking to this. This would seem to give you all the uncertainty an omnipotent and omniscient deity introduces to a worldview, with none of the comfort a religion offers. I'm with Prometheus, at least the neutral position is true to observation.
Strange Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 I do, however, believe that there is (or perhaps "was, at some point") a supreme entity that created the universe, but I do not believe (if he still exists and is present here in this universe) that he interacts with the universe he has created. I suppose that would be called deism, wouldn't it? That's just me. If I'm wrong, well all right then. But until someone can definitively prove me wrong, I'm sticking to this. I have absolutely no problem with this. It is an entirely reasonable and rational position.
Moontanman Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 (edited) As a Christian, I want to ask those who don't believe in God, why they don't believe, what encourages or pushes them to not believe? What is the exact reason why they don;t believe? Are their reasons completely enough to firmly hold their positions? Before holding their position, did they think first? Did they balance things first? Are they able to check their own selves or hear their own inner selves before deciding to hold their postions? I am curious about this.... Feedbacks are very much appreciated. Thank You... I do not believe because of the total lack of evidence of any gods or goddesses. The Abrahamic god, which is the most popular god concept today, is by the writings supposedly attributed to him a jealous, immoral, and unjust monster. No religion I am aware of has any evidence of the existence of gods or gods... Edited February 7, 2017 by Moontanman 1
dimreepr Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 Wisdom needs no deity to exist, but sometimes a deity is needed to teach wisdom. 1
John Cuthber Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 Wisdom needs no deity to exist, but sometimes a deity is needed to teach wisdom. Can you tell me what wisdom I am missing out on through my lack of a deity? 1
Phi for All Posted February 7, 2017 Posted February 7, 2017 Can you tell me what wisdom I am missing out on through my lack of a deity? You'll never know the joy of seeing what can only be seen by those who refuse to believe the unobservable can't be observed. You'll never know how intellectually satisfying it is to be able to ignore reasonable arguments and just claim it's mysterious, or unknowable, or can only be known by a fellow believer. You miss the wisdom one gains from an imprecise worldview, and by having such a wide range of interpretation ethically. 2
Prometheus Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 Can you tell me what wisdom I am missing out on through my lack of a deity? I think the key word you're missing is sometimes. Some people need stabilisers to learn how to ride a bike, some don't. Either way once you've learned you throw away the stabilisers. 1
dimreepr Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) Can you tell me what wisdom I am missing out on through my lack of a deity? Of course not, but then not every human has your level of education or critical thinking skills. But empathy suggests to me that some people who lack your skills, would benefit if their belief in a deity stops them from being constantly angry or anxious; because it tells them to forgive rather than seek revenge or to relax about tomorrow and stop worrying because it will take care of them or at least deliver them to a better place. Wisdom isn't knowledge it's understanding. Edited February 8, 2017 by dimreepr 1
seriously disabled Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 (edited) I don't believe in God because the evidence shows that there is no need for God to explain anything. Everything is physical therefore God does not exist. All the evidence that humanity has gathered during the course of evolution in fields like biology, chemistry, biochemistry, neuroscience, physics, electromagnetism, quantum mechanics, physical cosmology, the theory of relativity and many other scientific fields really shows that God is really not needed to explain anything. Everything can be explained by the laws of physics therefore God is not needed and does not exist. Edited February 8, 2017 by seriously disabled 1
DrKrettin Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 Everything can be explained by the laws of physics therefore God is not needed and does not exist. Do the laws of physics explain WHY there is a universe? 1
dimreepr Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 I don't believe in God because the evidence shows that there is no need for God to explain anything. Everything is physical therefore God does not exist. All the evidence that humanity has gathered during the course of evolution in fields like biology, chemistry, biochemistry, neuroscience, physics, electromagnetism, quantum mechanics, physical cosmology, the theory of relativity and many other scientific fields really shows that God is really not needed to explain anything. Everything can be explained by the laws of physics therefore God is not needed and does not exist. This is the eighth page of this thread, we've moved on a bit from this argument. 1
seriously disabled Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 Do the laws of physics explain WHY there is a universe? Yes I believe they do. The origin of the universe could very likely be due to physicalistic events. In some other forum a poster called paddoboy explains this better than I can: http://www.sciforums.com/threads/a-universe-from-nothing-not-that-hard-to-understand.158811/
paragaster Posted February 8, 2017 Posted February 8, 2017 A person always knows the answer. He needs validation from God. Strange and yet right in some way.
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