The Impeachment of Trump?

[Airbrush]

Do you think the impeachment of Trump, and his removal from office, would be the best thing that can happen? The sooner the better? Or do you think life under a president Pence would be even worse? From what little I know about Pence, I would prefer him as president, and the sooner the better, I hope to see the fall of Trump.

 

What would happen under a president Pence? Could Pence reorganize his cabinet by firing and hiring many of them?

Edited March 24, 2017 by Airbrush

[Raider5678]

Do you think the impeachment of Trump, and his removal from office, would be the best thing that can happen? The sooner the better? Or do you think life under a president Pence would be even worse? From what little I know about Pence, I would prefer him as president, and the sooner the better, I hope to see the fall of Trump.

 

What would happen under a president Pence? Could Pence reorganize his cabinet by firing and hiring many of them?

I'm honestly willing to just wait out Trump.

He's not going to be the worse president ever. And if he screws up big enough, then the Republican party loses support.

And if he succeeds, well then it's a win win win.

[iNow]

I'm honestly willing to just wait out Trump.

He's not going to be the worse president ever.

How do you know? Also, which of the previous 43 do you feel was worse?

[swansont]

Trump claimed Obama wire tapped him. AFAIK, libel, slander or defamation are not high crimes. However, had Trump done that under deposition or proceeded to maliciously prosecute Obama, that would be something yet again.

 

That was the issue with Bill Clinton. Not that he had lurid affairs, but that he lied about them under oath.

 

 

The president is not an ordinary citizen, so he shouldn't be defaming anyone. His words carry extra weight, so he must take greater care. He doesn't get the same protection by the first amendment, much like all employees whose speech reflects on their employer.

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/03/20/comey-testimony-suggests-trump-committed-impeachable-offense-false-obama-wiretap-claim.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-06/trump-s-wiretap-tweets-raise-risk-of-impeachment

 

And the situation is asymmetric

"Obama cannot sue Trump for libel nor ever match the power of Trump’s current bully pulpit or powers of state.

So this false accusation is a wild abuse of power"

 

http://www.nationalmemo.com/yes-trump-impeached-tweet/

[Ten oz]

I'm honestly willing to just wait out Trump.

He's not going to be the worse president ever. And if he screws up big enough, then the Republican party loses support.

And if he succeeds, well then it's a win win win.

The budget he has proposed would basically end the State Department, EPA, and public assistance as we know it. Without diplomacy around the world we're in a trouble positision. Especially when we have a President who has put Iran "on notice", threatened North Korea, demagugued China, repeatedly insulted Mexico, falsly accussed England of illicit intellignce practices, is treating NATO like its bookie, and out of the blue stop sh!t with Australia all inside of 2 months. As for the environmental rollbacks, the results will take a generation to reverse if we just wait for Trump's presidency to expire.

 

Every at his worst President Bush still understood he was the President of a sovereign nation full pof real flesh and bllod people. That he was filling a designed role. Trump doesn't seem to get that. Trump appears to view this all as pageantry. Like it doesn't really matters what happens provided the headlines are big. It is a dangerous situation to be in as we (USA) are now basically relying on our adversaries to have sane adult leadership. We are one bad day in Yemen, Iran, Syria, and North Korea away from an Iraq level conflict and one bad week away from a world war level event in China. All jinge on others having the cooler head.

 

 

The president is not an ordinary citizen, so he shouldn't be defaming anyone. His words carry extra weight, so he must take greater care. He doesn't get the same protection by the first amendment, much like all employees whose speech reflects on their employer.

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/03/20/comey-testimony-suggests-trump-committed-impeachable-offense-false-obama-wiretap-claim.html

https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-06/trump-s-wiretap-tweets-raise-risk-of-impeachment

 

And the situation is asymmetric

"Obama cannot sue Trump for libel nor ever match the power of Trump’s current bully pulpit or powers of state.

So this false accusation is a wild abuse of power"

 

http://www.nationalmemo.com/yes-trump-impeached-tweet/

Trump the private citizen sued people who made ugly claims about him. If the role were reversed Trump would be suing the federal govt for libel and damaging his brand.

[Raider5678]

The budget he has proposed would basically end the State Department, EPA, and public assistance as we know it. Without diplomacy around the world we're in a trouble positision. Especially when we have a President who has put Iran "on notice", threatened North Korea, demagugued China, repeatedly insulted Mexico, falsly accussed England of illicit intellignce practices, is treating NATO like its bookie, and out of the blue stop sh!t with Australia all inside of 2 months. As for the environmental rollbacks, the results will take a generation to reverse if we just wait for Trump's presidency to expire.

 

Every at his worst President Bush still understood he was the President of a sovereign nation full pof real flesh and bllod people. That he was filling a designed role. Trump doesn't seem to get that. Trump appears to view this all as pageantry. Like it doesn't really matters what happens provided the headlines are big. It is a dangerous situation to be in as we (USA) are now basically relying on our adversaries to have sane adult leadership. We are one bad day in Yemen, Iran, Syria, and North Korea away from an Iraq level conflict and one bad week away from a world war level event in China. All jinge on others having the cooler head.

Trump the private citizen sued people who made ugly claims about him. If the role were reversed Trump would be suing the federal govt for libel and damaging his brand.

Well then I guess we'll see if your predictions come true.

Because frankly, I don't have much of a choice other then to ride it out considering I can't even vote.

So I have to be willing.

[Ten oz]

Well then I guess we'll see if your predictions come true.

Because frankly, I don't have much of a choice other then to ride it out considering I can't even vote.

So I have to be willing.

What prediction? I listed things Trump has proposed and has already done.

[Airbrush]

From a link posted above:

 

"The fact that the FBI Director has testified that the President Of The United States lied about a US intelligence operation is a potentially impeachable offense. Smearing Obama with libel was horrible, but Donald Trump, as Commander-In-Chief promoted a lie about the government that he is supposed to be leading.

 

"The constitutional definition of high crimes and misdemeanors is vague. Ironically, it was the same vague language that allowed Republicans to try to impeach Bill Clinton for personal conduct that had no relationship to his official duties as president in the 1990s.

 

"By pursuing impeachment of Clinton, Republicans set a very low standard. It is possible that there are other more grave offenses that Trump could be impeached for, but at this time, it is a worthy question to ask.

 

"Is the misleading of the country by the President Of The United States an impeachable offense?

Thanks to James Comey, Donald Trump may soon find out."

 

http://www.politicususa.com/2017/03/20/comey-testimony-suggests-trump-committed-impeachable-offense-false-obama-wiretap-claim.html

[Delta1212]

No he won't. That's a stretch at best and a Republican-controlled House is not going to impeach him over that.

 

Even if Democrats retake the House in 2018 and, by some miracle, also retake the Senate, which isn't terribly likely given which seats are up that year, the wiretap claim will be old news by then and there is no way Democrats go for impeachment over it.

 

There may be some scenarios where Trump gets impeached either by Democrats after 2018 or even by Republicans, but in no scenario will the thing he gets impeached over be a tweet claiming Obama wire tapped him.

[Airbrush]

Of course he won't get impeached only over tweeting slander against Obama, but Trump's impeachment will come either from new revelations produced by the FBI investigation of his team's coordination with Russia, or a combination of many examples of his inability to be president. It is a cumulative thing. At some tipping point he can become too obnoxious for the legislative branch.

Edited March 26, 2017 by Airbrush

[iNow]

What you appear to be missing, Airbrush, is that the GOP controls congress and are unlikely to go along with, support, or in any way allow the impeachment of a GOP president, someone they need to sign their bills to accomplish their legislative goals.

[Ten oz]

What you appear to be missing, Airbrush, is that the GOP controls congress and are unlikely to go along with, support, or in any way allow the impeachment of a GOP president, someone they need to sign their bills to accomplish their legislative goals.

If we look back in history Special Prosecuters have been assigned to investigate far less. Under Carter for example a special Prosecuter was assigned to invetigate alligations that Hamilton Jordan (White House Chief of Staff) had used Cocaine once.

http://time.com/3207118/studio-54-cocaine-carter-white-house/

 

The National Security Directory was fired for lying about Russia, The Attorney General was caught lying about Russia and has recused himself from cases regarding Russia and the White House. Iur national intelligence agencies (CIA, NSA, DIA, DHS, FBI, etc) all have participated in press releasing stating that Russia sought to influence the election to help Trump win. The directors of the NSA and FBI even went under oath before the Senate Intelligence Committe and stated such. Trump himself has lied about information he has briefed, Russian officials he has met, and refused to provide evidence of no finiancial ties to Russia. All that without even getting into Paul Manaforts and Roger Stone's connections to Russian Intelligence.

 

More that enough evidence to assign a special prosecuter but Congress refuses to act.

[iNow]

Special prosecutor, yes. Impeachment, not likely.

(though admittedly members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees have radically changed the force of their comments on the Russian interference issue this week relative to their comments last week and in weeks prior...they've seen something that's serious, that will almost certainly result in action, and that they can't yet share publicly).

[Ten oz]

Special prosecutor, yes. Impeachment, not likely.

(though admittedly members of the House and Senate Intelligence Committees have radically changed the force of their comments on the Russian interference issue this week relative to their comments last week and in weeks prior...they've seen something that's serious, that will almost certainly result in action, and that they can't yet share publicly).

Perhaps you misunderstood. I was saying that we can't even get a special prosecuter, muchless an impeachment. This Congress won't act against their own. In itself this has already become a constitutional crisis.

[iNow]

Thanks for clarifying. I did misunderstand the nature of your reply, though even with the correction am not yet ready to admit defeat and concede there will be no special prosecutor. Perhaps we have a friendly wager of a beer, you buy mine if there is one appointed and I buy yours if there isn't.

[Ten oz]

Thanks for clarifying. I did misunderstand the nature of your reply, though even with the correction am not yet ready to admit defeat and concede there will be no special prosecutor. Perhaps we have a friendly wager of a beer, you buy mine if there is one appointed and I buy yours if there isn't.

I like this idea. However since this has been so crazy and unprecedented I must insist that the bet applies to the players currently on the field. In something new happens like Ivana goes on Oprah and claims Putin and Donald ise to talk on the phone for hours or whatever than all bets are off. Since Flynn, Manafort, Stone, Sessions, Kushner, and the Dossier are all already involved whatever happens with them is covered by the bet.

Do you think the impeachment of Trump, and his removal from office, would be the best thing that can happen? The sooner the better? Or do you think life under a president Pence would be even worse? From what little I know about Pence, I would prefer him as president, and the sooner the better, I hope to see the fall of Trump.

 

What would happen under a president Pence? Could Pence reorganize his cabinet by firing and hiring many of them?

This depends on what Trump is guilty of. Did he just use Russian propaganda without realizing or caring about what is was because he found it helpful or did he and his team collude. If they colluded what is the quid pro qou: Did Putin just not like Hillary, Russia is making a long term tactical move, or did Trump promise something?

 

In my opinion we already have all the evidence needed to show that Trump willfully accepted Russia's help and by doing so made their efforts more impactful. He was breifed by intelligence that Russia was responsible for the hacks and was interferring in the election yet he continue to cite the material, deny Russian involvement, and imply maybe it was China. To me that enough to impeach him. He promoted(by citing, celebrating, thanking) an attack on our election because it benefited him personally. He clearly is a compromised figure who is unfit to lead.

 

Here is the ing though; didn't Pence benefit as well? Pence defended what Trump was doing because it benefited him to defend what Trump was doing. So even if the all Trump is guilty of here is willfully using Russian propaganda in an uncoordinated way aren't he and Pence both unfit? Obviously if they colluded both show be in prison. If only Trump colluded Pence should still be removed because he benefited and as such is compromised. That mean Paul Ryan would be POTUS. but again, even with Ryan, there was either willful use of or cullision with Russian propaganda. Ryan used material from hacks against Dems in house races.

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/14/gop-super-pac-linked-to-paul-ryan-used-illegally-hacked-material-against-democratic-house-candidates-report/

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/13/us/politics/house-democrats-hacking-dccc.html

 

So we have quite a dilemma here. It is legitimately possible that the President and basically the line of succession willfully helped Russia undermine our democratic process. So determining the best course of action is very difficult to decide. It seems clear that most people don't care that Trump used the material. They are aware he did, believe it was Russia, but accept that it is okay provided Trump didn't directly collude with Russia. I don't fully understand why people accept that but obviously they do. So it will take much more to impeach him and the more that there is the less and less fit for office Pence and Ryan become because they basically did the same and or provided cover. It is an unprecedented situation.

[DrmDoc]

I think it will take Trump committing treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors. Popularity has nothing to do with impeachment.

 

Let me stick my neck out and predict that Trump will never be impeached. Not in his first term or his second.

 

 

Let me stick my neck out and predict Trump will never be elected to a second term as he will be the most unpopular American president since George W.

 

It seems my prediction is on track to validation as Trump's approval rating has sunk to 38%.

Edited March 31, 2017 by DrmDoc

[Manticore]

This is what I wrote before the Election :

 

USA the Most Powerful Nation

Must be lead with due Caution

Preventing Global Disaster

Without Noise and Bluster

By any ABC, Trump or Clinton

 

There was a Man called Trump

Whose Lies no one could Lump

His Secret Sins got Spilled

Many a Hearts he Chilled

So ended up a sore Grump

 

Now I am wondering what to write next !

How about:

 

Today is not a happy day.

I'm right down in the dumps.

I paid at the toilet to drop a Donald.

But all I did was Trump.

[Airbrush]

So it will take much more to impeach him and the more that there is the less and less fit for office Pence and Ryan become because they basically did the same and or provided cover. It is an unprecedented situation.

 

The Freedom Caucus was not afraid to say NO to Trump on health care reform. All it will take is more republicans, sitting on the fence, to peal away from Trump. There needs to be a clearly better person for president in the minds of most republicans, maybe Pence seems stable and conservative enough? In such a case Trump's popularity in congress can decline to a tipping point where most prefer Pence. Depending upon how FBI, senate, and house investigations progress, the GOP may be just looking for an EXCUSE, a technicality, to impeach Trump, and get on with a president Pence. For Pence to also be impeached and thrown out of office, along with Trump, seems less likely.

Edited April 1, 2017 by Airbrush

[Ten oz]

 

The Freedom Caucus was not afraid to say NO to Trump on health care reform. All it will take is more republicans, sitting on the fence, to peal away from Trump. There needs to be a clearly better person for president in the minds of most republicans, maybe Pence seems stable and conservative enough? In such a case Trump's popularity in congress can decline to a tipping point where most prefer Pence. Depending upon how FBI, senate, and house investigations progress, the GOP may be just looking for an EXCUSE, a technicality, to impeach Trump, and get on with a president Pence. For Pence to also be impeached and thrown out of office, along with Trump, seems less likely.

I don't expect Trump to be impeached. I wasn't commenting on likelihoods. I was commenting on right & wrong. If Trump's campaign colluded with Russia why should Pence get to become PUTUS he part of Trump's campaign?

[Airbrush]

If impeachment is not likely unless democrats have control of the house and/or senate after the November 2018 midterm election, how long will it take after the election, for democrats to exercise authority?

 

​"The 2018 United States elections will be held on Tuesday, November 6, 2018. During this mid-term election year, all 435 seats in the United States House of Representatives and 33 of the 100 seats in the United States Senate will be contested."

 

But if the democrats assume a majority in just the House, for example, they will need to wait until January of 2019 before they have the power to do anything, right? What if the democrats can get a majority in both houses, will that speed up anything?

 

It just seems wrong to wait another 1.5 years for justice, considering the magnitude of the crises Trump is capable of creating. Republicans must rise to the challenge earlier.

Edited May 14, 2017 by Airbrush

[Delta1212]

The Democrats can't get a majority in either, let alone both, houses of Congress until 2019, so I don't know why that would speed anything up.

 

The timeline for changing over remains the same regardless of how many seats in each house you win.

[KipIngram]

It just seems wrong to wait another 1.5 years for justice, considering the magnitude of the crises Trump is capable of creating. Republicans must rise to the challenge earlier.

 

Nonetheless, that is the process. In theory Trump is subject to impeachment and conviction at any time. But if the votes aren't there, the votes aren't there.

 

The most important part of having an orderly society is that we respect our own processes. Wanting to bypass them when it suits you, but not when it doesn't, is a sure path to chaos.

[Ten oz]

 

Nonetheless, that is the process. In theory Trump is subject to impeachment and conviction at any time. But if the votes aren't there, the votes aren't there.

 

The most important part of having an orderly society is that we respect our own processes. Wanting to bypass them when it suits you, but not when it doesn't, is a sure path to chaos.

If Trump has obstructed justice that is a crime. The process, our process we should respect, is one which has laws. It isn't a "bypass" to want our laws enforced. Winning an election doesn't entitle one to obstruct justice, demagogue judges (contempt of court), and totally ignore conflicts of interest. It is a constitutional crisis if we can't expect our elected officials to act as they are sworn to. Our process requires Congress to run real investigations into these matters. Our process does not demand the public just wait till there is another election for due diligence to occur.

[Delta1212]

If Trump has obstructed justice that is a crime. The process, our process we should respect, is one which has laws. It isn't a "bypass" to want our laws enforced. Winning an election doesn't entitle one to obstruct justice, demagogue judges (contempt of court), and totally ignore conflicts of interest. It is a constitutional crisis if we can't expect our elected officials to act as they are sworn to. Our process requires Congress to run real investigations into these matters. Our process does not demand the public just wait till there is another election for due diligence to occur.

Well, in some respect it kind of does if the people elected in the last election refuse to do the due diligence that the public wants them to do.