New non propellant thruster idea

[Lowemack]

Centrifugal Offset Relativistic Engine or CORE Drive.

 

Imagine a children’s roundabout with a flat smooth base on some ice. Spin the roundabout and if it is balanced, even with no friction with the ice, it will stay in the same location. If it is not balanced, say, we put one child on it, then when we spin it, the rotational axis will describe a circle in the ice.

 

The imbalance in weight in the system causes the whole roundabout to move along the line of the net centrifugal force.

 

If we could keep the imbalance of weight in the same place then we could generate linear thrust.

 

So now imagine the roundabout with a number of vertical wheels around the circumference, with the direction of rotation towards the centre. If we spin all these wheels then spin the roundabout, it should still remain stationary on the ice.

 

But what if we arranged to adjust the speed of the wheel rotation as they revolve around the roundabout.

 

So, looking from above, at East we start accelerating the wheel*, until at West it is at it’s maximum speed, then we start decelerating until back at East it is stationary. We do this for all wheels at the same position, so as the roundabout is revolving, wheels at West are maximum speed and wheels at East are Zero speed.

 

We should now have a slight imbalance of mass now as the wheels that are rotating will have slightly more mass than the non rotating ones due to the increase in relativistic mass.

 

This imbalance will give a thrust in the West direction. This is a non-propellant thrust ideal for interstellar travel.

 

This is my gift to the world, just a Knighthood and a Nobel prize please.

 

You are welcome.

 

*The rotation forces could be generated by electrical induction forces like an electrical motor, and the wheels would be like the rotor of the motor

 

PS This post was just deleted from Phisicsforum. Please inform me why if it is to be deleted.

[Bender]

Probably because it does not work. Conservation of Momentum.

 

If you want to screw over something as fundamental as that, at least back it up with a theory that is not based on the same laws it wants to break, and preferably some experimental evidence. The EM-drive is a better attempt.

 

I guess this could go to the speculation section.

[Lowemack]

Probably because it does not work. Conservation of Momentum.

 

If you want to screw over something as fundamental as that, at least back it up with a theory that is not based on the same laws it wants to break, and preferably some experimental evidence. The EM-drive is a better attempt.

 

I guess this could go to the speculation section.

Conservation if momentum is very fundamental, but not usually associated with Relativistic masses. Can you pinpoint where my idea breaks down? Would an unbalanced disc cause linear thrust. Would rotating wheels be heavier than non-rotating ones?

[Raider5678]

I can understand why it won't work, but I can't describe it.

Imagine it like this.

In order for this you need to produce enough force from the spinning thing to move the whole "engine" up 9.8 Meters per second per second. And that's just to get it to hover.

Where would this force come from? It's like trying to pick your self up by the back of your pants.

[Janus]

Centrifugal Offset Relativistic Engine or CORE Drive.

 

Imagine a children’s roundabout with a flat smooth base on some ice. Spin the roundabout and if it is balanced, even with no friction with the ice, it will stay in the same location. If it is not balanced, say, we put one child on it, then when we spin it, the rotational axis will describe a circle in the ice.

 

The imbalance in weight in the system causes the whole roundabout to move along the line of the net centrifugal force.

 

If we could keep the imbalance of weight in the same place then we could generate linear thrust.

 

So now imagine the roundabout with a number of vertical wheels around the circumference, with the direction of rotation towards the centre. If we spin all these wheels then spin the roundabout, it should still remain stationary on the ice.

 

But what if we arranged to adjust the speed of the wheel rotation as they revolve around the roundabout.

 

So, looking from above, at East we start accelerating the wheel*, until at West it is at it’s maximum speed, then we start decelerating until back at East it is stationary. We do this for all wheels at the same position, so as the roundabout is revolving, wheels at West are maximum speed and wheels at East are Zero speed.

 

We should now have a slight imbalance of mass now as the wheels that are rotating will have slightly more mass than the non rotating ones due to the increase in relativistic mass.

 

This imbalance will give a thrust in the West direction. This is a non-propellant thrust ideal for interstellar travel.

 

This is my gift to the world, just a Knighthood and a Nobel prize please.

 

You are welcome.

 

*The rotation forces could be generated by electrical induction forces like an electrical motor, and the wheels would be like the rotor of the motor

 

PS This post was just deleted from Phisicsforum. Please inform me why if it is to be deleted.

Here's the problem. The extra "mass" of the rotating wheel is really the mass equivalence of the kinetic energy of that wheel. That mass equivalence is there no matter what form the energy takes. So let's say you use an electric motor to spin up your wheels. The energy to spin up the wheel has to come from some source like a battery, If we assume a local battery for each wheel, then as the battery gives up energy to spin the wheel, the battery loses mass equivalence as the wheel gains it, and you get no change in the balance of the larger wheel. If you use regenerative braking to recharge the battery while slowing the wheel, you again aren't causing a balance change in your set up. If you try and put the battery at the center of the wheel, then the energy has to move from the center to the rim (and back again during recharging), and in doing so exerts a counter force on the main wheel canceling out and movement caused by the imbalance. In such a situation the wheel would oscillate a bit around a set point, but you would not get any net motion over time. (And since the recharging sequence can't be perfect, the batteries will eventually run out, with your device sitting right where it started) Moving energy around on the wheel will not produce any more net movement than moving masses around would in a purely Newtonian scenario. You can't avoid the conservation of momentum by trying to invoke Relativistic mass in this way.

[Bender]

I can understand why it won't work, but I can't describe it.

That is typical for inertial drives or perpetual motion devices: the actual calculations can be quite complex. Luckily, we can use conservation of momentum for the former and conservation of energy for the latter to demonstrate neither can ever work.

 

Conservation if momentum is very fundamental, but not usually associated with Relativistic masses. Can you pinpoint where my idea breaks down? Would an unbalanced disc cause linear thrust. Would rotating wheels be heavier than non-rotating ones?

It breaks down at the point where momentum is also conserved in relativistic systems. Not that that is relevant since your system is in no way relativistic.

 

I won't bother with the actual calculations for the reasons stated above. Rest assured that if you do them correctly, the net force will be zero at all times.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Bender