Do electrons exist?

[JohnB]

I'm putting it in here because I'm not game to ask the question in a more "serious" forum.

 

Since you can't have an electric current without an accompanying magnetic field. And since both magnetism and electricity both behave in sometimes bizarre fashions.

 

Is it possible that electrons don't actually exist? What I mean is, is an electron analogous to a photon?

 

Depending on how you look at it, light can be percieved as either a particle or a wave, hence "wavicle". Could electrons and magnetism have a similar connection, a "fieldicle" as it were?

 

I'm not pushing this a theory, it's just something I've wondered about from time to time.

 

Cheers. (Could we have a "cheers" smilie please?)

[YT2095]

Electrons exist, as do Protons.

 

without even Trying to unify the feilds, there are Cause and effect and similarities shared by these forces, Electron movement will create a magnetic feild, and a magnetic feild will create electron movement, but ONLY where electrons are present.

 

that`s my perspective anyway

[mmalluck]

To use one of my IM quotes:

"I cannot prove that electrons exist, but ... I have a high voltage cattle prod I'm willing to apply as an argument on their behalf." - Seth LLoyd

 

But really electrons are physical entities. You can have electrons and electric potential without a magnetic field (such as charge stored in a layden jar, capacitor, or surface of a balloon), as you can have a magnetic field without the movement of electrons (like in a bar magnet).

 

Now is an electron a tangible object? I'd have to say no. Electrons, as most particles smaller than an atom, play a probability game. As such, you can never be sure where an electron really is. The best you can do is say I'm 98% sure the electron is somewhere in this area, 70% sure it's within here, and so on.

 

Electrons and photons both share this uncertainty principle, and electrons have been used in the past to perform the rather famous double-slit experiment.

 

The electron is a quanta of charge where as a photon is a quanta of energy. In this sense they are both analogous to each other.

 

Unlike light, electrons have mass, don't travel at the speed of light, and their energy is directly related to the speed at which they travel (the higher the voltage potential, the fast electrons travel).

 

Photons on the other hand, have no mass, can only travel at the speed of light, and their energy content is determined by the frequency of the quanta.

[JohnB]

I thank you both, but perhaps I wasn't quite clear.

 

Photons certainly exist, if you look at light the right way, otherwise you see waves. It could be very broadly (and rather incorrectly) said that both photons and light waves are merely properties of another "thing", which one you see depends on how you look at it.

 

My thought was that electrons and magnetic fields may be something similar, just properties of some other "thing", each visible depending on the method of observation.

 

It's almost certainly a silly idea, but I thought it worth kicking around.

[ski_power]

Does this mean if we magnify an electron many times, we can actually hold it in our hands, ie is it as physically present as much as a couch or a chair?

[ydoaPs]

IMy thought was that electrons and magnetic fields may be something similar' date=' just properties of some other "thing", each visible depending on the method of observation.

[/quote']

magnetic fileds are photon exchanges. they are caused by electrons, but they are not electrons.

[YT2095]

electrons DO EXIST, in fact they can even be manipulated to make silly little pictures

[JohnB]

magnetic fileds are photon exchanges.

Photon exchanges? Elucidate please.

[YT2095]

Does this mean if we magnify an electron many times, we can actually hold it in our hands, ie is it as physically present as much as a couch or a chair?

 

yes and no, we couldn`t "hold it in our hands" exactly as it would react, but yes it is as real as a "Couch or chair" it even has a mass (not much of one, but it does have one).

 

10^ -30 killograms, so you`de need a hell of alot to fill a bag up! and well insulated gloves and body armour

[mmalluck]

You'd need more than a bag to put them in. You'd need something along the lines of a high pressure vessel or blast chamber. The repulsive force of any considerable amount of electrons is amazing.

 

My physics prof once said, "If you could take a person and force 1% more electrons onto thier body, thier body would explode from the increadable repulsive force of the electrons contained on the surface."

 

Now where you'd find a volenteer for that, I don't know.

[YT2095]

I agree, my point was more rhetorical though

[swansont]

Photon exchanges? Elucidate please.

 

The (virtual) photon is the exchange particle for the EM force.

[rajama]

I'm putting it in here because I'm not game to ask the question in a more "serious" forum.

 

Since you can't have an electric current without an accompanying magnetic field. And since both magnetism and electricity both behave in sometimes bizarre fashions.

 

Is it possible that electrons don't actually exist? What I mean is' date=' is an electron analogous to a photon?

 

Depending on how you look at it, light can be percieved as either a particle or a wave, hence "wavicle". Could electrons and magnetism have a similar connection, a "fieldicle" as it were?

 

I'm not pushing this a theory, it's just something I've wondered about from time to time.

 

Cheers. (Could we have a "cheers" smilie please?)[/quote']

 

I seem to remember reading that Dirac thought there might be only one electron if that's any help - think it relates to the need to explain why all electrons have the same charge, just one particle playing the role of every electron that exists...

[reverse]

I'm putting it in here because I'm not game to ask the question in a more "serious" forum.

 

 

Yep, I know exactly where you are coming from.

 

you are perhaps wondering if they are a probability or an actuality? or if they are a convenient way to explain the effect of totally separated causes as they "node".

 

 

It is an interesting thought.

I like it!

[JohnB]

or if they are a convenient way to explain the effect of totally separated causes as they "node".

Exactly. It's nothing more than wondering "What if...?"

 

Both electricity and magnetism are unusual, seeming slightly different to the usual forces we see.

 

Just as light can appear to be photons or waves depending on the detection method used, perhaps "X" can appear as a magnetic field, electric current or electrons depending on the way you look at it.

 

It's just a thought.

[reverse]

I see that thought come up more and more these days.

 

I'm not sure what to make of it.

 

perhaps it is the zeitgeist.