The North Korea Problem

[Area54]

11 hours ago, Sensei said:

They don't even have street lights at night...

Making it an ideal holiday destination for amateur astronomers!

[Sensei]

Ask average American "where is North Korea?"... and you will get this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ugJZhL-cbc

WTF?!

 

Edited August 15, 2017 by Sensei

[iNow]

3 hours ago, Sensei said:

Ask average American "where is North Korea?"... and you will get this:

WTF?!

I agree there's great opportunity for US citizens to be better informed about international affairs and geography, but you don't see in this clip all the people who did know but were edited out. It's not an average. It's a selection bias.

[Raider5678]

Just now, iNow said:

I agree there's great opportunity for US citizens to be better informed about international affairs and geography, but you don't see in this clip all the people who did know but were edited out. It's not an average. It's a selection bias.

Also, Hollywood boulevard??

That is definitely not the average American.

 

Crap. I got it wrong too. The peninsula that North and South Korea are on. I mixed it up with the one right below China.

[MigL]

All those people in the clip now have job offers from K-J-U.
To work on the North Korean missile guidance systems.

[Airbrush]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I seem to remember cable news points made about N.Korea's intentions.  In the news someone said that the US pulled troops away from the border in the past (1990s?) and immediately satellites detected N.Korea moving all its' military forces close to the border, looking like they wanted to attack.  That was when the US moved troops back to the border.  Anyone know about that?   N.Korea wants to unite both north and south Korea under the rule of Kim.

[Carrock]

3 hours ago, MigL said:

All those people in the clip now have job offers from K-J-U.
To work on the North Korean missile guidance systems.

K-J-U was too late. They've been employed by D Trump as military advisors.

[Airbrush]

The last I heard from Kim in the news was that he wanted to wait and see what Trump was doing.  Maybe the crazy stuff going on in the White House is entertaining for Kim?  Can you imagine his translators trying to explain to Kim what Trump is going off about?  The race riot in VA must be very amusing to him.  "Stupid those Americans don't get smart and hand over their freedom to a dictator."

Edited August 17, 2017 by Airbrush

[Airbrush]

Does anyone else agree that the current silence from Kim Jong means he may be taking an interest in the delightful chaos in the White House and wants to see if Trump will self-destruct?  Then he can start over working on Pence.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Airbrush

[Area54]

17 hours ago, Airbrush said:

Does anyone else agree that the current silence from Kim Jong means he may be taking an interest in the delightful chaos in the White House and wants to see if Trump will self-destruct?  Then he can start over working on Pence.

More likely he has indigestion.

[Ten oz]

On 8/19/2017 at 3:42 PM, Airbrush said:

Does anyone else agree that the current silence from Kim Jong means he may be taking an interest in the delightful chaos in the White House and wants to see if Trump will self-destruct?  Then he can start over working on Pence.

Something which occured to me during the childish tit for tat between Kim and Trump is that Kim is the one with all the experience. North Korea and U.S. relations have been bad since the end of the Korean War. Kim was raised at his fathers side while North Korea had stand off after stand off with the U.S.. Kim is seasoned and very experience in these tense exchanges. Trump is not. For Trump there is a steep learning curve happening at the moment. We can laugh at Kim's hair cut and point out how terribly he treats his people but at the end of the day he has for more experience than does Trump at North Korean/U.S. relations. Kim is also for more experienced in relations with China, Japan, and South Korea.

[Area54]

Pertinent observations.

[MigL]

And just when you think you have them figured out, Ten oz, nut-jobs like K-J-U and D Trump go and act totally against your predictions.

While D Trump was being uncharacteristically diplomatic last week, complementing the North Koreans on their restraint in firing off any more missiles, and even hinting at diplomatic talks, K-J-U decides this would be a good time to fire a missile which overflies and violates Japanese airspace.
We'll see what comes of this. And what China thinks of this latest destabilizing provocation.

[Ten oz]

4 hours ago, MigL said:

And just when you think you have them figured out, Ten oz, nut-jobs like K-J-U and D Trump go and act totally against your predictions.

While D Trump was being uncharacteristically diplomatic last week, complementing the North Koreans on their restraint in firing off any more missiles, and even hinting at diplomatic talks, K-J-U decides this would be a good time to fire a missile which overflies and violates Japanese airspace.
We'll see what comes of this. And what China thinks of this latest destabilizing provocation.

What did I predict? Throughout this thread I have posted that Kim has more experience, North Korea has a history of challanging new U.S. presidents, and that Trump's tough talk hasn't been useful. Those are statements and not predictions.

 

Do you think Kim Jong-un would be in power today had his father given up North Korea's weapons program? It is the catch 22 of all this. Only thing keeping us from just going in and changing regimes is the fact that Kim has weapons and a military capable of serious warfare

[Ten oz]

"Russia believes that the policy of putting pressure on Pyongyang to stop its nuclear missile program is misguided and futile," Putin said in an article published overnight by the Kremlin, ahead of the BRICS summit in Xiamen, China.

"The region's problems should only be settled through a direct dialogue of all the parties concerned without any preconditions. Provocations, pressure and militarist and insulting rhetoric are a dead-end road," he added.

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/01/putin-says-pressure-on-north-korea-is-both-futile-and-a-dead-end-road.html

 

Under normal conditions I would would welcome the POTUS sitting down with North Korea, South Korea, Japan, China, and etc. free of pre-conditions and talking it out. It is the ideal diplomatic step I had hoped for just a few couple months ago. However post Charlottesville and Trump attacking his own parties leadership over Healthcare I am honestly fearful about the ideal of Trump speaking on USA's behalf about anything. Post healthcare failure, current budget battle, natural diasters, and him picking what looks like a losing fight over taxes I believe President Trump would be content letting others worry about North Korea. Trump's presidency style seems to be entirely around media narrative victories without any real consideration for policy. Protests in Charlottesville, Hurricane Harvery, and North Korea are just inconveniences to Trump; They aren't things he cares about. The world cannot afford Trump coming out talks with North Korea  and having Charlottesvile type meltdowns at the microphone talking about fake news, bothsides, and woe is me.

[MigL]

Maybe 'prediction' was the wrong word to use, but your analysis suggests K-J-U's experience in dealing with neighboring countries enabled him to make the 'wise' decision of firing a missile into Japanese airspace. His so called 'experience' seems to be that of a short, fat guy trying to prove he's tough, by constantly pushing the boundaries of accepted behavior, and necessitating a response from everyone else.

I find it interesting that you think dialogue with a madman, who is virtually starving 25 Mill of his people, is actively seeking war by aggression towards neighboring countries, and has delusions of grandeur is acceptable.
But you think that if that dialogue involves D Trump, who also has delusions of grandeur, then it is unacceptable, and to be avoided.

[Ten oz]

7 hours ago, MigL said:

Maybe 'prediction' was the wrong word to use, but your analysis suggests K-J-U's experience in dealing with neighboring countries enabled him to make the 'wise' decision of firing a missile into Japanese airspace. His so called 'experience' seems to be that of a short, fat guy trying to prove he's tough, by constantly pushing the boundaries of accepted behavior, and necessitating a response from everyone else.

 

Wise decisions; in what context? Saying Kim is more experienced than Trump doesn't mich considering a lot of people are more experienced at governing than Trump. 

[iNow]

KJU is more powerful when he ignores and rebukes international pressure than when he acquiesces and gives in. While the people in his nation suffer, he and his chain of command consolidate power and increase the likelihood they will retain power. In short, by acting as he does, his experience is the exact opposite of suffering. 

We can acknowledge his acts are sadistic and inhumane while also understanding and appreciating their value strategically. 

[Ten oz]

"President Trump has instructed advisers to prepare a withdrawal from the United States’ free-trade agreement with South Korea, several people close to the process said, a move that would stoke economic tensions with the U.S. ally at a time both countries confront a crisis over North Korea's nuclear weapons program.

While it is still possible Trump could decide to stay in the agreement in order to renegotiate its terms, the internal preparations for terminating the deal are far along and the formal withdrawal process could begin as soon as this coming week, said the people, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

A number of senior White House officials are trying to prevent Trump from withdrawing from the agreement, including national security adviser H.R. McMaster, Defense Secretary Jim Mattis, and National Economic Council Director Gary Cohn, these people said."

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2017/09/02/trump-plans-withdrawal-from-south-korea-trade-deal/?utm_term=.1be1c472113c

 

I cannot think of a good reason for Trump to strain relations with South Korea at a type when we need South Korea as a tactical staging ground for missile defense systems, ports for ships & subs, and bases on land.

[iNow]

Good reason? It gives boners to his base. 

[Ten oz]

54 minutes ago, iNow said:

Good reason? It gives boners to his base. 

You are likely right but it's still odd. His base seems to have been using South Korea as a potential victim of North Korea's aggression to justify Trump's dangerous rhetoric. It is bizarre to me that his supporters don't mind spending billions defending and arming South Korea yet feel taken advantage of by trade deals. 

[iNow]

Indeed. It's not logical or internally consistent.  

[MigL]

If you guys are done getting sexual gratification from bashing D Trump ( and your fellow countrymen who support him ) in every thread and topic of this forum...

Believe it or not, there are worse people in this world than D Trump.
And I believe K-J-U is one of them.

This particular thread is the North Korea problem.
The American problem ( D Trump ) will be over in little more than 3 yrs ( if not sooner, I hope ).

[iNow]

MigL - What is your perspective, then? Instead of merely labeling others as Trump bashers and equivocating his actions, try addressing the question actually asked by Ten Oz. 

What possible good reason is there for Trump to strain relations with South Korea at a time when we need South Korea as a tactical staging ground for missile defense systems, ports for ships & subs, and bases on land?

...especially after NK conducted their largest ever underground nuclear test just last night a few short hours ago...  http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-41139445

Edited September 3, 2017 by iNow

[Ten oz]

"President Trump took aim at the nation in a series of tweets, calling its words and actions "hostile and dangerous" to the United States.

He also tweeted about China and South Korea.

"North Korea is a rogue nation which has become a great threat and embarrassment to China, which is trying to help but with little success," Mr. Trump tweeted.

"South Korea is finding, as I have told them, that their talk of appeasement with North Korea will not work, they only understand one thing!" he added."

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/trump-north-korea-hostile-and-dangerous/

Today Trump is subtly and not so subtly insulting China and South Korea for their diplomatic approaches toward North Korea problem. In my opinion a united front where all our allies and would be allies feel equally motivated to create a resolution. I don't think finger pointing in the media is a positive step. We need South Korea's and China's help on this and antagonism is not a useful step towards creating good will.