The North Korea Problem

[LaurieAG]

Quote

Omar Bradley, the chairman of the joint chiefs, flatly rejected MacArthur’s call for a wider war. “In the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, this strategy would involve us in the wrong war, in the wrong place, at the wrong time and with the wrong enemy,” he said.

 https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/redacted-testimony-fully-explains-why-general-macarthur-was-fired-180960622/#cGem5TFgfEuVcV88.99
 

[Ten oz]

12 hours ago, Phi for All said:

When he openly embraces the leaders of countries our own intelligence communities have identified as hostile, who have very recently been involved in hijacking our electoral process to strike at the heart of our democracy, what else is he but a traitor? All the most outlandish things he's done have made us more vulnerable to sinister influences, and pushed away allies who might be able to help us. He has us defending the wrong borders, and embracing those who value us only for the power they can take from us.

Putin, Assad, and Kim Jung-un are all being rewarded by the Trump administration. Trump denies Russia's engagement in propaganda attacks in the U.S. while being a pro Russian advocate among or allies, Assad no longer has to worry about being accountable or losing power, and Kim Jung-un too now can rest easier knowing that his legitimacy has been fully acknowledged and celebrated POTUS. The future in unknowable but surely this admin support of strongmen around the world will have lasting negative consequences. 

[Ten oz]

Quote

 

Russian energy giant Gazprom is resuming talks about constructing a gas pipeline reaching through North Korea, following the conclusion of President Donald Trump’s summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in Singapore, officials said Friday.

The current situation on the Korean Peninsula, in which both North and South Korea pledged to pursue peace, has laid the groundwork for Russia to build a pipeline that would reach from Russia into South Korea via the hermit kingdom, according to officials from both Gazprom and South Korea. The pipeline would not deliver gas into North Korea.

http://www.newsweek.com/russia-may-build-pipeline-through-north-korea-after-donald-trumps-kim-jong-un-978886

 

Collusion or not Trump sure does behave like someone in cooperation with Putin. Seem Russia may be getting more out of the Kim Jung-un Trump meeting than is the U.S. or our allies. 

Edited June 17, 2018 by Ten oz

[Ten oz]

Quote

 

North Korea has continued to make “rapid” infrastructure improvements at a nuclear research facility despite leader Kim Jong Un’s recent pledge to “work toward complete denuclearization” of the Korean peninsula, satellite images show.

Analysis of commercial satellite images obtained by Pyongyang-monitoring site 38 North reveals upgrades “continuing at a rapid pace” throughout North Korea’s Yongbyon Nuclear Scientific Research Center, including modifications to its plutonium production reactor’s cooling system.

At least two newly erected non-industrial buildings are visible in the images, captured on June 21, and various improvements have been made to other buildings and facilities according to a post on the site written by Frank V. Pabian, Joseph S. Bermudez Jr. and Jack Liu.

http://time.com/5323254/north-korea-nuclear-upgrade/

 

 

[Ten oz]

Unsurprisingly Kim Jung-un is forging forward on his Nuclear program despite U.S.talks. Thank to a POTUS desperate for the appearance of success regarding the matter I doubt anything is done. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see tweets from either Kim Jung-un or Trump calling this "fake news". 

Quote

 

U.S. intelligence agencies believe North Korea has increased production of fuel for nuclear weapons at multiple secret sites in recent months and may try to hide these while seeking concessions in nuclear talks with the United States, NBC News quoted U.S. officials as saying.

In a report on Friday, the network said what it described as the latest U.S. intelligence assessment appeared to go counter to sentiments expressed by President Donald Trump, who tweeted after an unprecedented June 12 summit with North Korean leader Kim Jong Un that “there is no longer a nuclear threat from North Korea.”

NBC quoted five unidentified U.S. officials as saying that in recent months North Korea had stepped up production of enriched uranium for nuclear weapons, even as it engaged in diplomacy with the United States.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/06/30/us-intelligence-believes-north-korea-making-more-nuclear-bomb-fuel-des.html

 

 

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Unsurprisingly Kim Jung-un is forging forward on his Nuclear program despite U.S.talks. Thank to a POTUS desperate for the appearance of success regarding the matter I doubt anything is done. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see tweets from either Kim Jung-un or Trump calling this "fake news". 

1

It reminds me of a cliche in the spaghetti westerns: the bad guy has a gun to the head of our anti-hero/christ and barks some orders, our anti-hero/christ nods and banters while slipping his hand ever closer to his secret/ed weapon; unless they're interrupted, someone's going to die.

[Ten oz]

7 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

It reminds me of a cliche in the spaghetti westerns: the bad guy has a gun to the head of our anti-hero/christ and barks some orders, our anti-hero/christ nods and banters while slipping his hand ever closer to his secret/ed weapon; unless they're interrupted, someone's going to die.

[dimreepr]

3 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Cheer up, we're not at DEFCON 1 just yet and the sheriffs on the way.

[Ten oz]

Now that the summit has happened and Trump already made his victory round it seems nothing that North Korea does matters any more. 

Quote

 

July 6, 2018 6:36 a.m. ET

SEOUL—North Korea is thought to be developing a new submarine capable of launching nuclear-armed ballistic missiles, a senior South Korean lawmaker said, signaling an increased threat to U.S. and allied forces while raising doubts about the regime’s pledges to disarm.

Evidence gathered by South Korea’s military suggests Pyongyang is working on the submarine on its east coast, said Kim Hack-yong, who chaired the legislature’s defense committee until his term ended a few weeks ago. Mr. Kim, who belongs to a conservative opposition party that is skeptical of dialogue with Pyongyang, cited intelligence provided last week by defense officials.

Satellite imagery reviewed by South Korean intelligence officials showed the movement of laborers and materials at the port of Sinpo, where the submarine appears to be under construction at an indoor facility, an aide to Mr. Kim said.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/north-korea-thought-to-be-working-on-submarine-able-to-launch-nuclear-weapons-1530873380

 

 

[Brett Nortj]

On 11/08/2017 at 4:51 PM, Ten oz said:

What is true today that wasn't true a year ago, 10yrs ago, 20yrs ago, etc? You say China is risking war but in my last post I outlined the challenge North Korea has posed to the U.S. for decades now. It seems that then only thing which has changed is the diplomatic experience and patience in White House. I don't think it is correct/fair to expect China to shift decades worth of policies over night because the new U.S. President only knows how to threaten. The position this White House finds itself in is not unique or new. 

This 'North Korea problem' is one of a nation wanting to be independent and another saying no, that is where it started. Then, North Korea wanted to build nukes,a s they felt threatened by 'the big dog,' and, then there were sanctions. Obviously, they could ignore the sanctions, as they could trade with China and that would be that, no problem. The thing is, they want nukes to protect them from the enemy that they deny. If they were to allow western media into North Korea, the people would see there is no threat from the west or elsewhere, even South Korea, and, the armaments would hopefully be left alone. This requires a simple overture to the military elite of Kim Jong Un and then he could make a decision. Basing the decisions of a nation on rumours is a bad idea, and, if they were even to associate with China, they would be reassured that there is nothing to worry about.

Of course, as there is so much paranoia in North Korea, the nukes could actually be launched for a mistake, say a ruse by Russia or something, yes? This si why they either need to include N K in the global community or simply sabotage their program. Sanctions just provoke the situation, when have they had the effects they were intended for before? It hurts the whole world, money goes missing from, for example, taxation and that money being injected into social security, for example.

[MonDie]

If Kim Jong Un had genuine paranoia, a trait often allied with anger and fear, would he genuinely believe the nukes would decrease the hostility of his peers?  Maybe the nukes are more like bargaining chips that derive their value from the appearance of being threatening.

Delusional fear and anger indicate psychiatric problems, but sane, delusion-free people usually don't seek the demise of their own kin.

Nepotistic Patterns of Violent Psychopathy: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3428807/

Edited August 14, 2018 by MonDie

[LaurieAG]

6 hours ago, MonDie said:

Delusional fear and anger indicate psychiatric problems, but sane, delusion-free people usually don't seek the demise of their own kin.

Are you saying that all the leaders of countries which have massive nuclear arsenals are paranoid and delusional?

[John Cuthber]

Well, that was unexpected (Not)
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1015441/world-war-3-north-korea-kim-jong-un-nuclear-weapons-donald-trump-russia

[Ten oz]

54 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Well, that was unexpected (Not)
https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1015441/world-war-3-north-korea-kim-jong-un-nuclear-weapons-donald-trump-russia

Assuming Gen. Mattis is correct and Trump has the understanding of a 5th grader this move by Kim Jung-un should still makes sense to Trump. The only reason Trump met with Kim Jung-un and gave him a seat at the table is because Kim Jung-un has Nukes. The value of those Nukes to Kim Jung-un is self evident. Separately I think Kim Jung-un has Trump by the balls now. Trump has already taken his victory lap on North Korea. Cashed in those chips. The relationship between Trump and Kim Jung-un souring now would only lend credence to reports of Trump's incompetence. So Kim Jung-un has some room to breathe knowing that Trump needs to keep a positive public appearance going. Especially in an election year.

[Phi for All]

48 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Assuming Gen. Mattis is correct and Trump has the understanding of a 5th grader this move by Kim Jung-un should still makes sense to Trump. The only reason Trump met with Kim Jung-un and gave him a seat at the table is because Kim Jung-un has Nukes. The value of those Nukes to Kim Jung-un is self evident. Separately I think Kim Jung-un has Trump by the balls now. Trump has already taken his victory lap on North Korea. Cashed in those chips. The relationship between Trump and Kim Jung-un souring now would only lend credence to reports of Trump's incompetence. So Kim Jung-un has some room to breathe knowing that Trump needs to keep a positive public appearance going. Especially in an election year.

You have to know that Putin knows how to corrupt an extreme present hedonist like Trump, but do you think Kim understands how to exploit the personality type also?

[Ten oz]

26 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

You have to know that Putin knows how to corrupt an extreme present hedonist like Trump, but do you think Kim understands how to exploit the personality type also?

Absolutely. Kim Juog-un was raised in a family of dictators (grandpa and pa) who were under constant international pressure while maintaining total internal control of a nation of tens of millions of people. Plus because North Korea attracted so much attention from the U.S. specifically all our adversaries, like Putin, have provided Kim Jong-un with mentorship and various levels on tactical support. This is the sort of scenario Kim Jong-un has prepped and been prepped for his whole life. 

[CharonY]

North and South Korea reportedly signed an agreement  to foster interaction between these nations (including family reunions). Perhaps glaringly, denuclearization was only include in very broad terms, not very different from promises in the past.

[MigL]

I would think that KJU knows that further interaction between the two Koreas will inevitably lead to his people getting a 'taste' of democracy and economic prosperity. This will then result in the need for political change, and the end of his family dynasty.

I'm surprised he is actively pursuing this course of action.

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, MigL said:

I would think that KJU knows that further interaction between the two Koreas will inevitably lead to his people getting a 'taste' of democracy and economic prosperity. This will then result in the need for political change, and the end of his family dynasty.

I'm surprised he is actively pursuing this course of action.

Not necessarily. Economic Prosperity doesn't always lead to the most logical outcomes. One just need to look at Qatar and Saudi Arabia or even  Brexit and Trump to see clear examples of that. Kim Jong-un has done a good job positioning himself as the reason for the looming prosperity. He has been taking victory laps meeting with foreign leaders while refusing to yield his Nuclear weapons. Kim Jong-un is receiving much in exchange for nothing. It is possible his popularity within North Korea is only swelling. 

[Ten oz]

After Trump thumbed his nose at Germany and China, turned his back on Canada, and gave his only kind words to Kim Jong-un during his U.N. address North Korea has responded by saying they aren't disarming. 

Quote

 

UNITED NATIONS – North Korean Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho says his nation will never disarm its nuclear weapons first if it can’t trust Washington.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2018/09/29/north-korea-wont-disarm-nuclear-weapons-without-more-trust-us/1470870002/

 

 

[StringJunky]

2 hours ago, Ten oz said:

After Trump thumbed his nose at Germany and China, turned his back on Canada, and gave his only kind words to Kim Jong-un during his U.N. address North Korea has responded by saying they aren't disarming. 

Do you see what you did there? You misreported but you did show quote. 

Quote

North Korean Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho says his nation will never disarm its nuclear weapons first if it can’t trust Washington.

It's conditional but you presented it as absolute.

Edited September 29, 2018 by StringJunky

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, StringJunky said:

Do you see what you did there? You misreported but you did show quote. 

It's conditional but you presented it as absolute.

The point of the submit between Trump and Kim, from the U.S.'s stand piont was to secure an agreement for NK to disarm. Something Trump came back home claiming he had accomplished. Obviously that isn't the case.

https://www-nbcnews-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna882246?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCCAE%3D#referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From %1%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fpolitics%2Fwhite-house%2Ffull-text-u-s-north-korea-agreement-signed-trump-kim-n882246

[Raider5678]

Looks like it's pretty much all cleared up now.

https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/31/north-korea-reportedly-readies-nuclear-missile-sites-for-inspectors.html

[iNow]

7 minutes ago, Raider5678 said:

Looks like it's pretty much all cleared up now.

What of the sites they’re hiding?

You’re skeptical of so many things. Are you applying that appropriately here?

Recall hownchemical weapons were removed from Syria, yet the ones they failed to report remained. 

Just trying to help you avoid parachuting down on to the carrier for a mission accomplished moment...

[Raider5678]

34 minutes ago, iNow said:

What of the sites they’re hiding?

You’re skeptical of so many things. Are you applying that appropriately here?

Recall hownchemical weapons were removed from Syria, yet the ones they failed to report remained. 

Just trying to help you avoid parachuting down on to the carrier for a mission accomplished moment...

The very fact they're letting international investigators in is a gigantic leap from their previous foreign policy procedures.

While it's possible North Korea does have hidden nuclear testing areas, I wouldn't equate it to Syria.

For one, we had suspicions that Syria was still hiding them, but signed off on the idea that all were destroyed(I suspect for election purposes).

As far as I've found, we're pretty much certain of all of North Koreas nuclear facilities.

 

Which is another factor. Syria was able to produce more chemical weapons because of the relative ease of creating them(to nuclear weapons).

North Korea may have chemical weapons we don't know about, but nuclear testing facilities and holding grounds are virtually impossible to hide with modern technology unless they were made and stopped running before major U.S. surveillance began(which was right after the Korean war).

I mean, we detected a nuclear blast under a mountain. (I believe, correct me if I'm wrong.) I feel like we would have noticed other operational sites as well.

That's mainly why I'm willing to say it's most likely cleared up. But I guess it is possible. We'll see.

Edited November 2, 2018 by Raider5678