the +/- of beating/hitting children by their parents

[Obnoxious]

I seriously think we (in America) should bring back this age-old traditional and way of teaching, teens my age have far too little to fear in our lives, and without fear we are far less motivated to do anything constructive with our time. Some of us chose drugs, others video games, and other even science related websites. Parents should be able to hit their children to teach them a lesson.

[Nevermore]

I'd choose sex and drugs over being beaten any day. Useing fear as a motivation is a terrible thing. Look at fundamentalist southern children. They are hit, and look how terrible they are at parenting! They complete a circle of aggresion.

[Callipygous]

i think hitting is necessary. i would define beating differently though. beating is something i would define as unnecesarily rough or violent discipline. a spanking is a whole different story.

 

when i threw a brick at my brother and hit him in the head (he stole my bike GET OFF ME), my mother smacked the bejeezus out of me, i would expect any parent to do the same.

 

it needs to be done as discipline, not just a way to relieve your anger or frustration, and it needs to not be excessive. aside from that i say go for it.

[iglak]

teens our age have way too much fear in our lives.

 

U.S. society tries to make us all afraid of drugs, sex, parties, alcohol, video games, movies, advertisements, driving, applying to college, getting bad grades, not being physically fit, not eating right, not sleeping enough, sleeping enough, not spending time on work even when more important things are at hand, dating, other adults, eachother, terrorists, mental health problems, and many other things.

 

if being afraid of getting beaten was added to that list, i know quite a few people who would join me in running away. i know i, for one, would never look back, and would consider my parents lost to me.

 

 

in the U.S., us teens have been overrun by fear... the only way to react, to keep the feeling of being alive (as opposed to depressed [feeling hopeless, as though there's nothing that can be done to change anything. while people can still do work in this state, it's the same as being dead]), is to have angst and rebel. because through angst and rebellion, we teens can have courage, hope, and motivation to succeed in life. giving in to our parents' will would be chosing to never be motivated again, and never spend effort on learning or doing anything we want.

 

if a wide-spread fear came to parents that if they didn't beat their children, their children wouldn't grow up to have courage, i can guaruntee to you that i would fight this thought with every fiber of my being, using as much force as necessary, without any care of consequences, and i would get as much teenage support as i can.

 

 

 

if you want teenagers to be disciplined, you have to get the parents to stop being afraid, and you have to get the parents to realize that it's their responsibility to get their teenagers' trust. only then will teenagers respect parents as worthy human beings. once you can get that to happen, then you can worry about proper discipline.

 

 

 

*edit*

i also agree with Callipygous.

 

 

in-fact, let me clarify.

i have nothing wrong with hitting to discipline children or teenagers.

it's the way it'll be done that i absolutely hate.

an intelligent, courageous parent can discipline their child all they want for all i care, as long as they know what they are doing.

but current U.S. society centers around fear. suggesting to parents that they discipline their children will put fear in them; the thought that if they didn't discipline their children, their children would grow up to be monsters. this fear will cause improper discipline without reason, and will show children just how stupid and vulnerable their parents are, and how unsafe they are in their parents' house, and cause children to do what i wrote above.

[aaronmyung]

I have a lot of friends who will talk to me about their parents. These are "tough" 16 yr old guys, crying about it.

It hurts em guys, I really dont believe hitting a kid is goign to solve anything.

Love Love Love!

[YT2095]

Hitting anyone is wrong.

 

Hitting a Child though, tripple wrong !!!! and then some!

 

Discipline can be exacted perfectly well WITHOUT the use of Physical harm, I really thought we`de all evolved Beyond that type of mentality

 

I speak as an abused child.

[AzurePhoenix]

Sorry YT, but sometimes there's no other way. My parent's coddled my youngest siblings, and they don't respond to anything. My parents are afraid to yell and hit at them, so the kids look at them as pansy-assed pushovers, so they do whatever they like at home. Therefore, I smack them in the back of the head, slap their hands or flick their ears when they cross lines (or on rare occasions tackle their legs and sit on them until they concede to my will). Now they respond to me as the responsible adult more than they do their parents.

 

And as of yet, the seven year old has yet to fall in with drugs Seems like a success to me.

[AzurePhoenix]

Just for the record, i think the act of "diciplinary hitting" should be reserved for when the kid knows he's doing something wrong, whether screaming at the top of his lungs, drinking grape juice in the living room, or for outright lieing or defiance.

[Callipygous]

Sorry YT' date=' but sometimes there's no other way. My parent's coddled my youngest siblings, and they don't respond to anything. My parents are afraid to yell and hit at them, so the kids look at them as pansy-assed pushovers, so they do whatever they like at home. Therefore, I smack them in the back of the head, slap their hands or flick their ears when they cross lines ([i']or on rare occasions tackle their legs and sit on them until they concede to my will[/i]). Now they respond to me as the responsible adult more than they do their parents.

 

And as of yet, the seven year old has yet to fall in with drugs Seems like a success to me.

 

 

i had a very similar problem. my younger sister is a total brat. we would get into arguments and my parents would say stupid things like "dont listen your your brothers jess, they are just being rude." and then the stupid bastards would expect us to babysit her. after hearing that kind of thing you think shes gonna listen to anything we say? of course not. i solved the problem. i told her to stop doing something and she played the game where as soon as you get up to do something about it they run away and promise not to do it again, then when you sit down they do it again, repeat. after the second time i told her i was gonna smack her across the head if she did it again. she did it again, tried to play her game, and it worked untill i caught up and smacked her across the head.

 

she listens now. its been years, and taking on a serious tone still gets her to knock it off.

[coquina]

I think physical punishment very rarely is appropriate. When children are young, and are not able to understand reason, sometimes it is the only way to be sure they stay out of danger.

 

I remember when my daughter was about three. We were on the boat, and she was put in a seat and told not to move while I helped Butch do something. I turned around, and she had not only gotten up, but was walking down the gunnel of the boat while it was underway, on the outside of the rail. I snatched her up and walloped her backside so hard she never made that mistake again.

[-Demosthenes-]

http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=10197

Related thread, some very good points.

[Callipygous]

the problem in that thread seems to be the wording. there is a difference between hitting a child for discipline and abusing them. i would define abuse as excessively violent or unnecessary hitting. there is nothing wrong with spanking your children as discipline. there is something wrong with punching them in the face for anything.

[Void]

The best punishment is love.

[Mag]

I think yelling is better than hitting.

because i remember when i was a kid i knew when my parents were angry or not.

So i suspect if a parent were to raise their voice and look angry, then the child would get upset?

 

also, taking away things works too.

"If you ask me again, you cant go to your friends house for 1 week"

A kid doesnt know how long a week is (well, not as much as an adult) so he might stay put, and if he does do it again, then he wont go to his friends, and learn from that.

 

i hate to see a kid get hit.

 

I was at the YMCA once, and the parent stupidly brought her little kid there. Kid doesnt want to work out, or leave the parent, and the parent wanted the kid to go int o a room with couches and stuff, and the kid wouldnt.

so the parent was like "im gonna spank you in front of everyone" and the kid started to cry and stuff, but of course the kid wouldnt let go. (cant blame the kid, what the hell is he suppsed to do at the YMCA?)

so yeah, then she took the kid in the bathroom, and they came out, the kid was all red from crying and stuff, which i hate to see.

but not only that, the mom said "see, now everyone is looking at you"

which i thought silly, i was looking at the mom who was making the big deal.

 

in anycase, i think there are other not-so-violent ways of discipline.

[Phi for All]

My wife and I raise our daughter using the Love and Logic approach. I tried spanking, when she was about three, for safety issues and it just made her angry and made me feel like crap. Love and Logic tells you you don't ever let them see you out of control, yelling or flying off the handle. You calmly take things away, you pick them up if they won't walk voluntarily, you put them in their room, you come up with consequences for inappropriate actions. You commiserate with them on how their behavior has affected their freedom and you say, "What a bummer!" a LOT.

 

You should never let them get away with bad behavior, but hitting them is not good, imo. I know you get an immediate response from spanking, but I think fear as discipline can teach them to avoid YOU rather than avoiding bad behavior. Above all you want a child who associates natural consequences from doing the wrong thing.

 

When a child sees you lose it they love it, but secretly it makes them uncomfortable too. If they learn that there are logical consequences for bad behavior, they move away from that behavior. It takes more time to master than spanking, but it has the benefit of not teaching them to hit to solve problems.

[Baldur]

I agree with Phi for All first and foremost, but deeply sympathize with Coquina's position. That is, I believe spanking is seldom if ever necessary, but if it IS necessary it is in precisely the situation that Coquina has given an example of - a compelling need to instill discipline to ensure personal safety.

 

That said, given the limited abilities of most parents, I concede that spanking may be the best that can be expected from many of them, and for the moment at least we should concentrate on making sure that such parents understand HOW to spank effectively and in moderation. I am deeply suspicious of any parent who spanks frequently, or after a child is 12.

 

In other words, I consider spanking to be a necessary evil in rare circumstances, and a general evil in other circumstances, but not a *great* evil if done in moderation and with love. Any sort of beating, however, is only tolerable in defence life or limb - and of course I'm being too detailed for most people, so you can just interpret that as "any sort of beating is intolerable".

 

As Phi for All has noted, the best way to discipline a child (or anyone) is to let them suffer consequences for their actions, and the sooner the better (while their actions still have relatively minor consequences), so that they come to an early understanding.

 

Frankly, Obnoxious has chosen their user name well. Presumably a troll?

 

 

Baldur

[Baldur]

It just so happens I've just had a conversation in a chat room that bears on this subject. I received my friend's permission to post the comments he made here:

 

01:11:36 M: Yes, I even had to punish her, which I hate doing--I told her several times she'd have to leave my room if she continued behaving so badly, and she'd straighten up for about 2 minutes, them go back to the same thing--finally, I'd had enough and made her leave the room for an hour.

01:12:36 M: When I do this, she always cries hard--down on the floor, racked with sobs type thing

01:14:26 M: I find it so ironic--her parents insult her, whip her hard, everything but hard-line abuse, and yet I can oust her from my room and get that kind of reaction.

01:16:08 M: She has told me several times she hates going home and would live here if she could; talks about moving into my room with me even, lol--but she treats me the way her parents treat her sometimes

01:18:36 M: 01:16:08<--Don't get me wrong--some days she's [nearly] perfect; but other days [like today] she's a terror.

01:20:48 Baldur: well, that's what little kids are like, M.

01:21:24 Baldur: Obviously you're doing something right if she wishes to move in with you, and I know you are not spoiling her (which would be a form of abuse in itself).

01:22:23 M: True enough, but she starts actually threatening me if I don't do things her way--and the way she says it makes it obvious it is how her parents talk to her and treat her on a regular basis--which I already knew.

01:24:30 M: No, I don't spoil her at all--I DO spend way more quality time with her than the rest of the adults in her life do.

01:22:29 Baldur: A child will tend to act like the adults around them act - and when she sees how her parents act, she'll act that way because in one part of her mind she has learned that that is the way she is SUPPOSED to act.

 

 

Baldur

[husmusen]

I find a lot of what Phi has said here seems to me to be pretty

common sense.

 

I would add though that, and it's sadly not always possible,

the best method of discpline is when the child sees their community

living the same values and principles they preach to and expect from

the younger generations.

 

I know because I grew up in a little country town up in the deep

north of Sweden, and that's what they did, for example children were

expected to be respectful to their elders, but their elders also

treated them with respect, which is quite seperate from authority.

 

For example, you still had to obey your parents but your

parents would explain why they asked you to do, or not do,

such and such.

Beneficial side affect: Child learns.

 

Children find it very easy to live by principles they see everyone

else living by.

They find it very hard to live by principles, when they seem to be the

only one.

 

Also I think wisdom is important.

My parents always gave me an opportunity to own up of my own

accord, they never raced off the second they found out about

something.

 

And we had a wealth of morality rich tales and myth.

 

The emporers new robe.

Bamse: The worlds strongest bear.

The three questions.

Neglect a spark and the barn will burn down.

How much land does a man need.

Joseph,

Noah,

Job.

The crow who tried to walk both roads at once.

The hare and the tortoise.

God sees the truth but waits.

The two old men.

The three old men.

 

Just to scratch the surface.

 

 

 

Cheers.