Will Bush Veto Stem Cell Bill?

[budullewraagh]

"I don't think it's an active effort to keep the US behind in the sciences, though -- I think it's a lack of understanding on the part of the far right about the important role science has played in our success, the ability of other countries to advance science without us, and an inability to look past certain ethical points to look at larger ethical considerations (i.e. they wouldn't necessarily even object on moral grounds if they looked at the whole picture objectively instead of ideologically)."

well, while it isnt entirely effective, it is a means for pushing one's agenda.

 

"I disagree with Bud's point about the south still recovering from the civil war, etc. You'd be hard pressed to find a more ignorant fool than a yankee who's confident in his knowledge that liberalism equals righteousness and that the northeast is the center of the civilized world. Typical blue-state foolishness. The kind of thinking that generates more failed Democratic candidates. You need to move past that kind of nonsense."

i knew the backlash was coming. kindly remove those words from my mouth and hand me some mouthwash. see, the problem is, while what i said is completely politically incorrect, i don't care and actually my statements were all accurate. no, i didn't say that liberalism isn't righteousness. i'm not into righteousness; it seems too...southern conservative christian for me. and no, i didn't say the northeast is the center of the civilized world. i have to say, however, that our education system beats the bloody tar out of that of the south. remember, certain districts start "american history" at reconstruction. then kids get to the AP exam and become confused. wait, the US didn't just come into existence during the late 1860s?? now of course, the south has its fine school districts and institutions, but overall, it is significantly lacking when compared to the northeast.

 

"The problem we have right now in this country isn't the far right. It's the confluence of power in both extremes, to the detriment of the center. Our inability to compromise will, some day (hopefully not in my lifetime), be the death of this nation."

the problem we have in this country is ignorance, hands down.

[Pangloss]

Not really interested in responding to either a personal attack or a regional rah-rah. Pass and pass.

[budullewraagh]

well, you just did respond to what you implied to be either a "personal attack," a "regional rah-rah", or both.

 

in actuality, i merely pointed out the true differences in education between the northeast and the south. it's unfortunate, but undeniable that overall, the south lacks sufficient funding for their school systems. it's unfortunate, but undeniable that a great number of southern districts refuse to begin "american history" until the late 1860s. it is unfortuante, but undeniable that a great number of southern districts refuse to teach evolution. it is unfortunate, but undeniable that southern schools appear to have the tendency to place a lesser emphasis on the importance of academic merit. the truth is that overall, the northeast performs better academically.

 

now, one can call the above "slanderous," but without facts to support such a statement, one would look quite foolish. it is important to recognize the fact that apathy spawns ignorance. so be in denial, but the scores won't change significantly without active and conscious efforts towards improvement.

[atinymonkey]

Budullewraagh - I think Pangloss was referring to Revprez tilting at windmills on his favorite hobbyhorse. I don't think it was related to your point.

[Pangloss]

I don't think I'm the one who's appearing foolish at the moment, but we can discuss the subject of regionalism if you like. I'd be interested in seeing someone try to support the position that the cultural elites of the northeastern states actually do have a point (as opposed to being the cultural fascists I believe they are). Why don't you start a new thread on it and summarize your position (like your points on education), and I will respond (and I promise not to Godwin it).

[Pangloss]

Oh, no the "regional rah rah" comment was definitely aimed at him. It was not intended as a personal attack, though. I wasn't trying to put words in anyone's mouth earlier, just briefly point out why I think that kind of regionalism is part of the problem rather than part of a solution.

 

As for Rev, he can kiss my lilly-white straw man. ;-)

[budullewraagh]

"I don't think I'm the one who's appearing foolish at the moment, but we can discuss the subject of regionalism if you like. I'd be interested in seeing someone try to support the position that the cultural elites of the northeastern states actually do have a point (as opposed to being the cultural fascists I believe they are). Why don't you start a new thread on it and summarize your position (like your points on education), and I will respond (and I promise not to Godwin it)."

 

well, you label me a regionalist but you have yet to even address the issues i have raised. am i a cultural elitist? if recognizing the differences in education in the northeast and the south makes me an elitist, perhaps i am. but then being an elitist isn't so bad, is it? just comparing and contrasting like a good student of social sciences.

 

once again, i ask you to kindly remove certain words from my mouth. you speak of culture. i spoke of education. please define "cultural facist." i'm not so sure it would be wise to start a new thread on this; i have explained my position. i am curious as to how you could possibly defend your position.

[Pangloss]

I will be happy to defend my assertions about cultural elitism and regionalism if you start a thread on the subject. It simply has nothing to do with Bush and the stem cell veto.

 

Are you up to it, or are you going to continue to demonstrate your continued reluctance engage me whenever I challenge your sillier assertions around this forum?

[Douglas]

Budullewraagh - I think Pangloss was referring to Revprez tilting at windmills on his favorite hobbyhorse. I don't think it was related to your point.

Agreed, but wouldn't it be nice if we knew exactly who was talking to whom?

[-Demosthenes-]

i'm not into righteousness; it seems too...southern conservative christian for me.

To have morals is to be a southern conservative christian? You can't just write it off everyone elses opinions because they are "Christian Conservative" and therefore ignorant. Well what if we think your the one is is ethically ignorant?

This is just rank ignorance. You don't even bother to state the ethical arguments here or even present this so called larger ethical consideration.

This is very true. Of course it will move science forward, and it will help cure and help people. The porblem is that there are ethics issues and simple ignoring them will not make them go away. The agument does not come down to how much it will help, but what it will cost us.

 

If conception is where a large portion of the population believes that the human life starts, then your going to be sure that some people are going to question this research, or the use of fudural money to fund it.

[john5746]

in actuality' date=' i merely pointed out the [i']true[/i] differences in education between the northeast and the south. it's unfortunate, but undeniable that overall, the south lacks sufficient funding for their school systems. it's unfortunate, but undeniable that a great number of southern districts refuse to begin "american history" until the late 1860s. it is unfortuante, but undeniable that a great number of southern districts refuse to teach evolution. it is unfortunate, but undeniable that southern schools appear to have the tendency to place a lesser emphasis on the importance of academic merit. the truth is that overall, the northeast performs better academically.

 

Hey, the SAT is biased. It needs to have references to NASCAR, country music and God in their questions to help us poor white trash!

 

Anywhoo, I agree that Education is probably better overall in the Northeast as evidenced by SAT scores, but compared to other countries, I think Americans all look rather dim. I think the cultural differences have a larger impact.

 

Does this mean you think Asians make better ethical decisions because they have the highest SAT scores?