Paradox

[AbnormallyHonest]

Infinity is at the root of all paradox.

[Phi for All]

This will always be true yet false.

[Strange]

Infinity is at the root of all paradox.

 

 

Except for the ones where it isn't. Which is paradoxical, really.

[Sriman Dutta]

How?

[Velocity_Boy]

Infinity is at the root of all paradox.

 

 

I personally don't see anything paradoxical about the concept of Infinity.

 

Well, except in an abstract way. In that, it is amazing how often the word is used and what a popular topic of discussion it is among us humans, given the fact that, in reality, our minds have no true grasp of it. That is, we cannot effectively comprehend anything being "infinite." It is a placeholder word. And how could we know? Given our amazingly brief time here, living in a world filled with finite entities; measured time; rules' constructs, and limits. During our evolution there was no reason for the brain to have to learn to grasp the notion of infinity. As, even to understand it, would do us little if any good. Far more valuable was our brain's evolved obsession with seeking patterns in the world. As well as causes.

 

(Alas, the mind does this even when there are NO patterns or causes. So this is why: conspiracy theories; gods; Mother Mary in your morning toast, and the Man in the Moon! LOL)

 

 

I personally don't see anything paradoxical about the concept of Infinity.

 

Well, except in an abstract way. In that, it is amazing how often the word is used and what a popular topic of discussion it is among us humans, given the fact that, in reality, our minds have no true grasp of it. That is, we cannot effectively comprehend anything being "infinite." It is a placeholder word. And how could we know? Given our amazingly brief time here, living in a world filled with finite entities; measured time; rules' constructs, and limits. During our evolution there was no reason for the brain to have to learn to grasp the notion of infinity. As, even to understand it, would do us little if any good. Far more valuable was our brain's evolved obsession with seeking patterns in the world. As well as causes.

 

(Alas, the mind does this even when there are NO patterns or causes. So this is why: conspiracy theories; gods; Mother Mary in your morning toast, and the Man in the Moon! LOL)

 

I must share something that has always been one of my favorite "picture aids", as it deals with trying to grasp the concept of infinity. Sorry, I cannot recall where I first heard this little metaphor, but I think it is delightful......

 

"Infinity? Well, picture this. The Moon is the same size it is, and distance from the Earth, but is comprised of pure, solid iron.

Every year, a butterfly leaves the Earth, flies to this Iron Moon, and as he orbits it he brushes a wing against its surface.

When the gazillion or what-have-you number of wing-brushes the butterfly has mad on the Iron Moon have worn it down to the size of a mere grain of sand...well, my friend, Infinity has just started."

[Bender]

"Infinity? Well, picture this. The Moon is the same size it is, and distance from the Earth, but is comprised of pure, solid iron.

Every year, a butterfly leaves the Earth, flies to this Iron Moon, and as he orbits it he brushes a wing against its surface.

When the gazillion or what-have-you number of wing-brushes the butterfly has mad on the Iron Moon have worn it down to the size of a mere grain of sand...well, my friend, Infinity has just started."

Technically, that's not correct. Infinity wouldn't have started. It would still have taken only 0% of infinity to do that.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Bender

[AbnormallyHonest]

My goal was to generate a discussion challenging this statement with specific paradoxical ideas that do not present infinity superficially.

[Strange]

My goal was to generate a discussion challenging this statement with specific paradoxical ideas that do not present infinity superficially.

 

 

"There is a barber in my town who cuts the hair of everyone who does not cut their own."

 

"This statement is false."

 

I can't think of many paradoxes involving infinity. Can you give an example?

[AbnormallyHonest]

Example: Being able to admit when your wrong, just as a means to always being right.

[studiot]

Infinity is at the root of all paradox.

 

Do you really mean 'infinity' or perhaps 'somehow all inclusive or all exclusive within the context of the proposition'

 

Rule1) There are no rules.

 

Buy Johnston's biodegradable, indestructible socks.

 

A self-effacing process.

Edited April 7, 2017 by studiot

[Strange]

Example: Being able to admit when your wrong, just as a means to always being right.

 

 

How is that a paradox? And what does it have to do with infinity? You seem to have destroyed your own hypothesis (if this is a paradox).

[studiot]

Strange, see my post#10

 

ref

 

 

 

 

How is that a paradox? And what does it have to do with infinity? You seem to have destroyed your own hypothesis (if this is a paradox).

[AbnormallyHonest]

 

 

How is that a paradox? And what does it have to do with infinity? You seem to have destroyed your own hypothesis (if this is a paradox).

 

Isn't it endlessly self validating?

[Lord Antares]

Yes, but it has nothing to do with a paradox. It isn't a paradox.

 

Also,

 

 

Example: Being able to admit when your wrong, just as a means to always being right.

 

You mean not being able to admit when you're wrong, right? Otherwise it makes no sense.

[AbnormallyHonest]

 

Do you really mean 'infinity' or perhaps 'somehow all inclusive or all exclusive within the context of the proposition'

 

Rule1) There are no rules.

 

Buy Johnston's biodegradable, indestructible socks.

 

A self-effacing process.

 

I'm not sure, I guess it depends. Do you think that the value of "0" is a form of infinity?

Yes, but it has nothing to do with a paradox. It isn't a paradox.

 

Also,

 

 

 

You mean not being able to admit when you're wrong, right? Otherwise it makes no sense.

 

Well, I would say that admitting that you can be wrong, is accepted with much less effort than stubbornly sticking with an idea that no one agrees with. It would almost being comparable to having an idea that everyone agrees with... or is it an idea that everyone agrees with? "Wow, I was really wrong about that." could be replied to with, "You're absolutely right."

How about flipping a coin 1000 times and getting heads every time. On the next flip, statistical and probable certainty would be that I would flip tails. So mathematically, the chances of flipping a heads again is so unlikely that it would be foolish to bet on heads again, yet you just flipped it 1000 times in a row.

[Lord Antares]

But this has nothing to do with what you said.

 

Not being able to admit when one is wrong as a means to always being right is the only way you could fit infinity into it. I don't know what this talk of morals or acceptance is. It certainly isn't a paradox.

[AbnormallyHonest]

But this has nothing to do with what you said.

 

Not being able to admit when one is wrong as a means to always being right is the only way you could fit infinity into it. I don't know what this talk of morals or acceptance is. It certainly isn't a paradox.

 

If you're wrong and can't admit it, wouldn't you just be wrong. (Purely in the accurate vs. inaccurate dichotomy)

 

Seems pretty finite to me.

Edited April 7, 2017 by AbnormallyHonest

[studiot]

 

I'm not sure, I guess it depends. Do you think that the value of "0" is a form of infinity?

 

 

 

 

The use of extremal quantifiers or qualifiers such as; none, all, never, always, perfect etc often leads to a paradox or other difficulty.

 

Some examples

 

I always lie.

 

Every statement I make is false.

 

Every statement containing extremals as noted can be disproved.

 

I just wondered if you really meant to include something like these which work just as well with a finite set as an infinite one.

For instance 'always' is a sort of infinity, but not for me since I have a finite life and can only make a finite number of statements in it.

 

Otherwise If you really meant that all paradoxes are based on infinity there have already been plenty of counterexamples that disprove the claim.

Edited April 7, 2017 by studiot

[Lord Antares]

 

If you're wrong and can't admit it, wouldn't you just be wrong. (Purely in the accurate vs. inaccurate dichotomy)

 

Seems pretty finite to me.

 

But you claimed infinity. You are changing scenarios now and one has nothing to do with the other.

[AbnormallyHonest]

 

 

The use of extremal quantifiers or qualifiers such as; none, all, never, always, perfect etc often leads to a paradox or other difficulty.

 

Some examples

 

I always lie.

 

Every statement I make is false.

 

Every statement containing extremals as noted can be disproved.

 

I just wondered if you really meant to include something like these which work just as well with a finite set as an infinite one.

For instance 'always' is a sort of infinity, but not for me since I have a finite life and can only make a finite number of statements in it.

 

Otherwise If you really meant that all paradoxes are based on infinity there have already been plenty of counterexamples that disprove the claim.

 

I agree, there is a deeper philosophical argument about the limits of our experience, but isn't that what makes "infinity" so paradoxical to us? Because we are finite, it's like imagining the Universe without life... and hence, without an imagination.

 

Also, I don't necessarily agree that any of the counter examples implicitly prove anything wrong. Although, the "infinite" may not be superficially included in those examples, I believe it is embedded at the fundamental level of all paradox. I believe it's my first statement in this response as an explanation of "paradox" abstraction as an idea.

 

But you claimed infinity. You are changing scenarios now and one has nothing to do with the other.

 

"Being able" vs. "Not being able". I believe you may be creating your own paradox. Perhaps you misread.

[Lord Antares]

"Being able" vs. "Not being able". I believe you may be creating your own paradox. Perhaps you misread.

 

Do you even know what ''paradox'' means? I am not seeing any paradox since post 1.

[Strange]

Do you think that the value of "0" is a form of infinity?

 

 

Of course not. Infinity, in mathematics, is larger than any number (informally). I don't see how 0 fits that role.

How about flipping a coin 1000 times and getting heads every time. On the next flip, statistical and probable certainty would be that I would flip tails. So mathematically, the chances of flipping a heads again is so unlikely that it would be foolish to bet on heads again, yet you just flipped it 1000 times in a row.

 

 

Nope. The chance of the next flip has a 50% chance of being tails.

 

I agree, there is a deeper philosophical argument about the limits of our experience, but isn't that what makes "infinity" so paradoxical to us?

 

 

It isn't paradoxical to us.

 

I'm wondering if you know what the word "paradox" means.

 

 

 

Also, I don't necessarily agree that any of the counter examples implicitly prove anything wrong. Although, the "infinite" may not be superficially included in those examples, I believe it is embedded at the fundamental level of all paradox.

 

You can believe that, of course. But I don't see any reason why anyone else should. Do you have anything other your belief? Rational argument, maybe?

[Velocity_Boy]

Technically, that's not correct. Infinity wouldn't have started. It would still have taken only 0% of infinity to do that.

Technically, you're missing the whole fricking point.

 

But thanks for the pedantry.

[Argent]

Is it paradoxical to ask, why would someone who has learned to read and write and operate a computer post such nonsense as AH, or is it just puzzling?

[Strange]

It would probably be more paradoxical if he hadn't learned to read and write and operate a computer!