Any Tangible Medical Benefits for Circumcision?

[Manticore]

After 2 minutes searching:

 

From: http://www.aidsinfonet.org/fact_sheets/view/508

Herpes sores provide a way for HIV to get past the body’s immune defenses and make it easier to get HIV infection. A recent study found that people with HSV had three times the risk of becoming infected with HIV as people without HSV

 

From: http://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa0802556

Male circumcision significantly reduced the incidence of human immunodeficiency virus (HIV) infection among men in three clinical trials. We assessed the efficacy of male circumcision for the prevention of herpes simplex virus type 2 (HSV-2) and human papillomavirus (HPV) infections and syphilis in HIV-negative adolescent boys and men.

[John Cuthber]

OK John - it might be a real effect.... but I am still not convinced the level of sexual activity of the individuals is taken into account. I smell some bias on the interpretation of the results. If the only benefit is a slightly less chance of herpes whilst engaging in sexual permiscuity then I think that better education regarding safe sexual practices is probably going to far out weight the benefits of snipping off the end of your penis.

lol - and how far do you want to go with it? If you cut the whole thing off then there will be even less chance of contracting sexually transmitted diseases right? ;-)

Very droll.

However, it's important to recognise why that flap of skin is an important pathway for access by HIV.

HIV targets the immune system. Cells of the immune system are present at high levels in the foreskin.

If a zillion years of evolution led to a lot of immune cells at the end of men's dicks, it's not difficult to imagine a reason for that- they help prevent infection.

 

That's not something we should discard lightly- especially in places where HIV infection is a relatively low risk.

 

None of it impacts the notion that men can make up their own minds about this as and when it becomes relevant to them.

[DrP]

So a 2.4% reduction in the HSV virus in the circumcised group after 2 years compared to the control out of over 5000 test subject. (7.8% of cases compared to 10.3% in the control). Are we sure they got the same amount of exposure to herpes as the control group? I would imagine they would have to wait a few weeks compared to the control group before 'getting stuck in' to the trials so to speak. Again - I think condoms would be a better prevention than circumcision.

 

I don't understand how it is supposed to be that great with just a 2.4% improvement. My joke (which was in poor taste admittedly) holds true - how far do you go with it? Total removal of the lower half of my body would prevent any chance at all of contracting herpes from intercourse.... but that comes with other problems. Putting on a condom HAS to be better than the 2.4% margin of improvement reported above in that 2nd paper. Or better selectivity of your partners. I still don't see the point in making the cut - especially if you live in the developed world and have been educated to take precautions.

 

Further reading suggests that condoms are not 100% protection, either... but as John C says... it is irrelevant when talking about infants who are a way way off from sexual maturity.

Edited May 2, 2017 by DrP

[StringJunky]

The real motive in the OP is religious and trying to justify the practice by citing specific health benefits doesn't jive with me.

[Raider5678]

@Raider5678 - wrt appearance - I would say you find it disgusting only because it is different to what you are used to - it is YOU that has the unnatural dong mate!

Actually, after an anonymous survey to girls, I found the majority 26/28 think a uncircumcised penis looks weirder.

That being said, I also had to ask another question, 24/28 think both look weird on some level.

[hypervalent_iodine]

Actually, after an anonymous survey to girls, I found the majority 26/28 think a uncircumcised penis looks weirder.

That being said, I also had to ask another question, 24/28 think both look weird on some level.

 

Exactly who did you ask that of? People from your school? That hardly seems like a fair sample pool.

[Raider5678]

 

Exactly who did you ask that of? People from your school? That hardly seems like a fair sample pool.

It's an extremely small one, so yes. But is it that my school doesn't count or is that it's too small?

[hypervalent_iodine]

It's an extremely small one, so yes. But is it that my school doesn't count or is that it's too small?

It's more that it's inherently non random. You're exclusively asking people with presumably limited (comparatively) sexual experience about penis aesthetics.

[DrP]

it is too small and it is also biased - you come from a place where, I presume, this practice is the norm - so anything contrary to that norm will seem odd because it is different to what you have been taught. If all of the lads have had the cut and all of the girls have only been exposed to penises that have had the snip, then of course they would think anything different would be odd.

[Raider5678]

it is too small and it is also biased - you come from a place where, I presume, this practice is the norm - so anything contrary to that norm will seem odd because it is different to what you have been taught. If all of the lads have had the cut and all of the girls have only been exposed to penises that have had the snip, then of course they would think anything different would be odd.

Actually, most of their experience was only in sex ed. So the only norm they know are the two pictures.

[DrP]

...and 2 pictures won't be enough due to the very large spread of variations from body to body also. There was that famous art work recently where the artist made a wall of vaginas by casting the vaginas of about 50 women - they were ALL totally different in appearance. (admittedly, the penis might be more uniform in 'design' from person to person, but there will still be variations with varying aesthetics from person to person).

 

The point of the vagina wall iirc was to make women feel more confident in their own bodies - too many young girls were having cosmetic operation done on their flaps to make them look more 'normal' - where the point is that there is no real normal when they all look so different and they should be happy and confident with what they have.

 

Just to add to that - I do not think it is a very responsible thing to suggest that it is disgusting or abnormal if someone hasn't had it done or looks a little different. It might put pressure on a young self conscious person to have himself cut just to fit in - I think it is deplorable.

Edited May 5, 2017 by DrP

[Raider5678]

...and 2 pictures won't be enough due to the very large spread of variations from body to body also. There was that famous art work recently where the artist made a wall of vaginas by casting the vaginas of about 50 women - they were ALL totally different in appearance. (admittedly, the penis might be more uniform in 'design' from person to person, but there will still be variations with varying aesthetics from person to person).

 

The point of the vagina wall iirc was to make women feel more confident in their own bodies - too many young girls were having cosmetic operation done on their flaps to make them look more 'normal' - where the point is that there is no real normal when they all look so different and they should be happy and confident with what they have.

 

Just to add to that - I do not think it is a very responsible thing to suggest that it is disgusting or abnormal if someone hasn't had it done or looks a little different. It might put pressure on a young self conscious person to have himself cut just to fit in - I think it is deplorable.

Dude, I wasn't pressuring nothing.

You made a statement that the only reason I thought they looked weird was because I was circumcised. I agreed.

But I then wondered what females thought on the basis that they don't have them.

So I asked.

[DrP]

That's cool - we are just saying a group of girls from your class that have seen 2 pics is not a complete scientific study and may contain biases - so take your findings with a pinch of salt.

 

PS - my rant about social pressures and making others ashamed of their bodies because they are different is true though. To say someone else's body part looks disgusting (which you did earlier) can lead to that person feeling really depressed... so much so that they might be having thoughts about mutilating their own body just to fit in - which I think is wrong.

Edited May 5, 2017 by DrP