Dead Friend's Wife

[Guest franco38]

Can't tell you how much I'd appreciate some input from anyone, everyone, esp. from women, on a situation that has me very depressed. You should know that I'm married, have young kids, and my marriage is fairly stable though my wife and I have grown distant emotionally. I won't point fingers, trying to keep this factual. Neither has had an affair (take it as fact please).

 

I work for an East Coast company and a little over a year ago, our firm moved a guy and his family here from Vancouver BC. I instantly bonded with the guy and in six months we became best buddies. Tragically, unbelievably, almost a year ago, he and his young son, and another two people, were killed in a car crash. It was the most horrific death imaginable as they all pretty much burned alive.

 

I'd met his wife only on occasion and after the tragedy sent her a card. We met for lunch once and I shared my thoughts on what a wonderful guy her late husband was and how much I enjoyed my short period of interaction. We emailed occasionally after that as she prepared to move her and her surviving young child back to Vancouver, which became a two-month process. In the emails I offered support and at times, somehow, some humor, and so did she. For whatever reason, I started enjoying my role in this and felt very rewarded when she'd say I was helping her, etc. This became overwhelming for me, becoming a key player in a uniquely horrible tragedy, and I sought the advice of a counselor over it. He offered that I needed to ensure that my wife had access to all emails (I told the widow this and she understood) and that I should never be alone with her. My wife has met her on a few occasions, including while she still lived in the area for those two months, and also during a visits the widow made to visit other friends in the area.

 

So yes, eventually she did move back to Vancouver but the email relationship has continued. We've also talked on the phone a few times. My wife still has access to the emails and despite this, they've become more intense as she and I have shared more and more deep thoughts and perspectives, not anything of the "I love you" variety but more about her saying how much I've helped and me saying how much I've enjoyed helping.

 

At this point she has tons of support locally, she's stronger than anyone could ever imagine, but obviously quite troubled by the horror. She tells me of the sore spots, I offer some insight, and she likes that. I also have shared some of my difficulties with various things life offers and she's helped me as well, but have never, EVER mentioned anything about the distance in my own marriage (that I feel would be completely wrong for many reasons!). In fact, I've on several occasions told her that my marriage is strong, very strong.

 

While tolerant at first, my wife has of late caught a few things in these emails that have upset her, and she sees me as emotionally but not physically cheating on her. I've tried on a few occasions to give it up but the widow will come back with some new crisis, I'll offer to help, and she'll respond with the "I don't know what I'd do without you" theme.

 

Here's where I am and where I'd appreciate your advice. I can't deny that I have some emotional attachment to her. I look forward to her emails and get upset and worried when she goes silent. But I know this is harmful to my family, my marriage, and is certainly becoming more of a stress for me.

 

Women, please don't shoot me, but I think there's a combination of nature and environmental upbringing/societal teachings that, corny and sexist as it sounds, makes men feel a duty to jump in and help women in despair. But experiencing this in the present situation teaches me that it's not the movie macho thing in isolation; there's a real emotional attachment that can develop for a guy, particularly the sensitive types like me, and it's happened here.

 

So, I know that I must get out of this friendship, this bond, this role, but I want to do it with minimal hurt. I don't know where she is as regards emotions with me, but I honestly hope she sees me in some sort of older brother role (I'm a few years older than her) and nothing else. She may well be clueless to what I'm going through.

 

One thought is for me to space out the emails, space out the replies, and gradually drift away. Would this be fair though? Wouldn't it leave her questioning whether she'd said something that upset me, or wondering if someone who seemed to care suddenly stopped, and become very fearful that this would repeat with others who are supporting her? Another thought is to tell her the truth -- to express that while I never expected it to happen, some difficult emotions have emerged on my end and I'm not sure how to handle them -- that they've honestly developed as a result of feeling a sense of responsibility and caring and that the months of mutual sharing of deep considerations have worked into my head and that this is causing me some discomfort. Then see what she has to offer as a reaction. It could well be that this would be enough to have her suggest that we both move on.

 

I invite your thoughts. Horrific as it is, please try to place yourself in her shoes. What would be best for you in such a situation.

 

One last thing: yes, I'm coming across as worrying more about her than about my wife. So about that: I'm trying with little luck to get my wife to agree to marriage counseling but she's thus far refused. She sees no problem in our marriage that's worth going to counseling over, even though I 've told her repeatedly that though I love her, I feel our marriage is almost a functional partnership and that I don't feel enough there's enough emotional sharing and love as is needed, at least not as much as I need.

 

So am I getting my unmet emotional needs fulfilled by this other woman? Is she there telling me that I'm valued and worthy while my wife isn't? Yeah, probably so.

 

But what to do. What a mess, huh?

 

Thanks,

 

"Franco"

[Guest Angel Sci]

makes men feel a duty to jump in and help women in despair.

Don’t worry, women feel like they have to jump in and “fix” men all the time.

 

So, I know that I must get out of this friendship, this bond, this role, but I want to do it with minimal hurt. I don't know where she is as regards emotions with me, but I honestly hope she sees me in some sort of older brother role (I'm a few years older than her) and nothing else. She may well be clueless to what I'm going through.

My advice (I’m not even close to being a professional) is to get your wife involved. Sit her down at a completely neutral time when you aren’t discussing this other woman at all and tell her you need to talk. Tell her that you are completely aware she’s been troubled by your relationship with the other woman. Tell her that you see the other woman as a friend and while you do have a very deep friendship with her, your feelings haven’t extended past great concern for a dear friend. You’ve come to realize, however, that she is still uncomfortable with your friendship and since she (your wife) is the most important person in your life, you know it would be best to dissolve the friendship. Ask your wife for her advice on how to dissolve the friendship. Tell her even though the other woman doesn’t have romantic feelings (even if you suspect she does), breaking the friendship will probably hurt her feelings and you want to be as gentle as possible. This is where you let your wife give you advice and you should follow it as closely as possible while still using your best judgment.

 

With this advice, I am putting myself in the place of your wife. If my husband found himself in your current predicament, I (as the wife) would be uncomfortable, but I would be more uncomfortable if he broke off his friendship “because his wife told him to” or “because his wife was upset/mad/whatever”. That would be embarrassing for me personally. I wouldn’t want anyone thinking a) my own relationship was so weak I had to control his friendships or b) I was in the business of telling my husband what to do. Sometimes wives or husbands have to ask each other to do/not do things for the sake of the relationship, but you don’t have to advertise that to others. In the end, you might actually get some great advice from your wife, especially since she knows the whole story and to a degree knows this woman personally.

 

One thought is for me to space out the emails, space out the replies, and gradually drift away. Would this be fair though?

Don’t do it. You are right, it isn’t fair – to her or you or your wife. Why draw it out? If you get an email from her looking for advice and support, do you really want to make her sit and wait while you try to calculate an acceptable timeframe that will make it appear like you are “drifting apart”? Do you want your wife to sit in the background waiting for it to all pan out and drift away?

 

 

Another thought is to tell her the truth -- to express that while I never expected it to happen, some difficult emotions have emerged on my end and I'm not sure how to handle them

NO! You don’t want to do that when your worried wife has access to your emails. Your wife is worried you are having an emotional affair and this plan of action will just solidify that you are indeed having the wrong emotions toward this woman.

 

Then see what she has to offer as a reaction. It could well be that this would be enough to have her suggest that we both move on.

Don’t make her do it for you. It will be much easier in the long run if you step up and take that role yourself.

 

Best of luck, Franco. It’s not an easy position to be in, I’m sure.

 

Angel

[Coral Rhedd]

 

At this point she has tons of support locally' date=' she's stronger than anyone could ever imagine, but obviously quite troubled by the horror. She tells me of the sore spots, I offer some insight, and she likes that. I also have shared some of my difficulties with various things life offers and she's helped me as well, but have never, EVER mentioned anything about the distance in my own marriage (that I feel would be completely wrong for many reasons!). In fact, I've on several occasions told her that my marriage is strong, very strong.

 

[/quote']

 

Franco, let me be frank. What you share with this woman is a bond created from loss. This is not a positive beginning. You have comforted each other, but the situation you describe is so unique that it is doubtful that this relationship could sustain itself in the reality of the dull day to day of an onsite relationship.

 

I will be even more frank. I have engaged in mild email flirtations with married men. However, I have never lost sight of the fact that they are married. The distance created by the internet fosters romance. Nothing is more enchanting than the unattainable. We can say things that we might blush to say face to face. We can become someone that we are not in real life.

 

While tolerant at first, my wife has of late caught a few things in these emails that have upset her, and she sees me as emotionally but not physically cheating on her. I've tried on a few occasions to give it up but the widow will come back with some new crisis, I'll offer to help, and she'll respond with the "I don't know what I'd do without you" theme.

 

She needs to move beyond crisis mode to rebuild her life. As cruel as it may seem, your ongoing support in her life may actually be creating a stumbling block to her actually doing this.

 

Here's where I am and where I'd appreciate your advice. I can't deny that I have some emotional attachment to her. I look forward to her emails and get upset and worried when she goes silent. But I know this is harmful to my family, my marriage, and is certainly becoming more of a stress for me.

 

Emotional attachment? I think you think you may be in love with her.

 

Women, please don't shoot me, but I think there's a combination of nature and environmental upbringing/societal teachings that, corny and sexist as it sounds, makes men feel a duty to jump in and help women in despair.

 

And we all know this as well. There are few women who have not appreciated the unique and sometimes devoted emotional support of male friends and lovers. We know well that our need of men is a powerful appeal that attracts men who want to be our knights in shining armor.

 

But experiencing this in the present situation teaches me that it's not the movie macho thing in isolation; there's a real emotional attachment that can develop for a guy, particularly the sensitive types like me, and it's happened here.

 

I have every confidence that you are a good and decent person.

 

So, I know that I must get out of this friendship, this bond, this role, but I want to do it with minimal hurt. I don't know where she is as regards emotions with me, but I honestly hope she sees me in some sort of older brother role (I'm a few years older than her) and nothing else. She may well be clueless to what I'm going through.

 

Simply tell her that your attachment to her is developing beyond what is comfortable for you and that it is distracting you from placing you loyalty and hopes for the future where it rightly belongs: With your wife and children.

 

One thought is for me to space out the emails, space out the replies, and gradually drift away. Would this be fair though? Wouldn't it leave her questioning whether she'd said something that upset me, or wondering if someone who seemed to care suddenly stopped, and become very fearful that this would repeat with others who are supporting her? Another thought is to tell her the truth -- to express that while I never expected it to happen, some difficult emotions have emerged on my end and I'm not sure how to handle them -- that they've honestly developed as a result of feeling a sense of responsibility and caring and that the months of mutual sharing of deep considerations have worked into my head and that this is causing me some discomfort. Then see what she has to offer as a reaction. It could well be that this would be enough to have her suggest that we both move on.

 

But be honest. Are you hoping to find that such frankness on your part will elicit and similar feeling of attachment and declaration from her? You need not bear you soul make this break. Dwelling upon your feelings for her will only lead to possible embarrassment or an even more complicated situation.

 

I invite your thoughts. Horrific as it is, please try to place yourself in her shoes. What would be best for you in such a situation.

 

Trying to put myself in her shoes, I would say that healing would be best for me.

 

One last thing: yes, I'm coming across as worrying more about her than about my wife. So about that: I'm trying with little luck to get my wife to agree to marriage counseling but she's thus far refused. She sees no problem in our marriage that's worth going to counseling over, even though I 've told her repeatedly that though I love her, I feel our marriage is almost a functional partnership and that I don't feel enough there's enough emotional sharing and love as is needed, at least not as much as I need.

 

Doesn't passion always wax and wane in marriages? Tell your wife that you are thinking of getting out if she doesn't opt in by going to counseling. Tell her counseling is not negotiable; it is necessary.

 

So am I getting my unmet emotional needs fulfilled by this other woman? Is she there telling me that I'm valued and worthy while my wife isn't? Yeah, probably so.

 

Yes. Exactly. I do not blame you. However, you need to review where things began to fall apart in your marriage.

 

But what to do. What a mess, huh?

 

Nah! Just human. Don't torture yourself. Extricate yourself.

 

The fact that you chose to share all this with a bunch of strangers indicates something about you. What do you think that is?

[Phi for All]

I work for an East Coast company and a little over a year ago, our firm moved a guy and his family here from Vancouver BC. I instantly bonded with the guy and in six months we became best buddies. Tragically, unbelievably, almost a year ago[/b'], he and his young son, and another two people, were killed in a car crash.

(emphasis mine) Your chronology doesn't match up here with regards to your buddy. You met him just over a year ago, knew him for six months before the accident, which was almost a year ago. It took the wife two months to move. How long has his wife been widowed?

 

As you have stated, she's moved back, she's very strong, you are married, you'd like to continue being a big brother-type. I would start by emphasizing this in your emails ("I enjoy my big brother role in your life as long as I can be of help"). Keep in mind that she has a small child to raise on her own and if she's too attached to you for help she may not look very hard for another, healthier relationship.

 

You mention that you feel emotionally distanced from your wife. Could it be that it is easier for you to be the third party observer in someone else's life and have a harder time drawing your wife into discussions that involve the two of you directly? You want you and your wife to discuss things the way you discuss things with this other woman, but realistically the topics would be much more personal and maybe a bit more emotional. Helping others allows you to maintain a certain emotional distance; helping your own marriage is much more intimate and potentially scary.

 

My two cents, also from a non-professional stance. I'm also curious as to why you joined a scientific community to bring this up.

[Mag]

I'm also curious as to why you joined a scientific community to bring this up.

 

thats what i was wondering.

Join date: this month

Posts: 0

 

 

generally when one joins a forum they dont post such an experience first thing.

[Dak]

maybe he equates knowledge with wisdom? in which case i feel obliged to point out that knowledgable people are not nessesaraly wize, and infact are oftern the stupidest people around.

 

anyway, i find in complicated situations like this that honesty is by far the best policy; after all, no-one involved has done anything wrong so why shouldnt you be completely honest with each other?

 

if you feel that the contact should be discontinued, then tell her -- and tell her why aswell. itd be better than simply drifting away from her and leaving her to work out why you did so, and it will remove the risk that you end up thinking of her as a nuicance that you cant get rid of.

 

and tell your wife how you feel about your friend. It seems as if she is just a friend, and being married does not mean that you cannot have female friends. if you try and underplay your feelings for her atall, and your wife notices, then she may question by how much you are understating your feelings for her. better by far, i feel, that people are just honest in these kinds of situations.

 

even if you do derive emotional pleasure from this woman: well, thats what friends are for.

 

hope it goes well for you.

[Bettina]

thats what i was wondering.

Join date: this month

Posts: 0

 

 

generally when one joins a forum they dont post such an experience first thing.

 

I did just that. I had problems and wanted to find a place that had intelligent people to talk to because I had nowhere else to go. The "other" places were just too kid like, but I do have a love of space.

 

Anyway, Franco38........

 

I'm only 17, but even I can see whats going on. I've put myself in your shoes, and your in love with her.....big time, and in fact, you wish your own wife would be more like her. Better still, you wish you were married to her. What bothers me most is this.....Your communicating with another women, and at the same time telling your wife your not happy in your marriage. Hello!.......whats wrong with this picture.

 

Flat out, you are cheating on your wife. Showing your wife your emails is nothing compared to the hidden feelings that is going on in yours....and the other womens.....minds. I understand you completely, but I don't understand your wife (from how you have described her)

 

You don't have very many options......two actually. If you love your wife, get to a counselor, get it fixed, and get on with YOUR life. She will find someone else to comfort her. Or......divorce your wife and move in with the other women. Your burning the candle on both ends and its getting shorter.

 

I don't see a happy ending. Just my opinion.

 

Bettina

[Dak]

thats a tad black and white. not that it follows that its nessessaraly innacurate, but theres a whole shade of gray inbetween. What if he does love this woman, but not to the extent/in the same way as he loves his wife? what should he do then? give up a friend that he cares for? divorse his wife to be with his friend?

 

franco, exactly how do you feel about this woman? love? like? friend? fancy? how deep and in what manner are your feelings for her?

[Obnoxious]

I foresee a possible solution to this, however, it is neither moral or pratical in the extreme long run if you are a man of a strong conscience. Obviously you love your wife and kids and such, and therefore do not want to part from them, and you similarily don't want to eject this voluptuous (will someone please program in a spellcheck feature!) vixen from your life....So, the immediate solution is to split your lives. Keep in contact with this alt. lady via another E-Mail at another place, while reserving your love and such for your family.

However, by doing that, you would essentially be living a double lie, and if you're not mentally trained enough, could all blow up in your face leaving you without family and friend. Do it properly, and you could keep everyone lost in oblivious sunshine, whilst you alone must brace the cold dark lonely truth of your deceit. Your choice (or just tell this voluptuous internet vixen of yourselfs that you can't play with her anymore).

[BenSon]

Franco, what do you actually want to do? Thats what these things tend to boil down to in the end. Only ususally alot of fu*king about with other things in the mean time. Just ask yourself what is the absolute perfect end to this plight you find yourself in. Now make it happen.

Whatever it may be, stay, leave, either way. Ask yourself because whatever you decide your the only person who you have to live with for the rest of your life. I think that you realy want to stay with your family but also want the emotional connection you get with this other women from your wife. Is your wife too embrassesed to go to a councillor? I would have thought that she would be more embrassesed to know that her husband needs to go to another women to be emotionaly fulfilled. In the end you already know what you want to do and will one way or another end up doing, so i guess what I'm saying is just do it and get it over with.

 

~Scott

[Coral Rhedd]

Franco' date=' what do you actually want to do? Thats what these things tend to boil down to in the end. Only ususally alot of fu*king about with other things in the mean time. Just ask yourself what is the absolute perfect end to this plight you find yourself in. Now make it happen.

Whatever it may be, stay, leave, either way. Ask yourself because whatever you decide your the only person who you [b']have[/b] to live with for the rest of your life. I think that you realy want to stay with your family but also want the emotional connection you get with this other women from your wife. Is your wife too embrassesed to go to a councillor? I would have thought that she would be more embrassesed to know that her husband needs to go to another women to be emotionaly fulfilled. In the end you already know what you want to do and will one way or another end up doing, so i guess what I'm saying is just do it and get it over with.

 

~Scott

 

Actually, this is probably the realistic assessment. People usually end up doing what they want. They just need to find the proper rationalizations that allow them to follow through.

 

For instance, in this case Franco can use his wife's reluctance to go to counseling as an excuse for seeking emotional sustenance outside of his marriage. If, in his marriage, the physical intimacy also dwindles (as it so often does without the emotional connection), he can then use this as an excuse to begin a sexual relationship with the woman that Obnoxious so charmingly refers to as a "voluptous vixen."

 

On the other hand, if we don't hear some feedback from Franco soon on our sage advice, I think we can assume his first post was a hoax.

[BenSon]

When I saw you had quoted my post I was ready for a good ribbing but alas you argee:). Maybe a hoax maybe not, some boards aren't as busy as this one and he just hasn't thought there would be this much traffic.

 

~Scott

[Guest franco38]

All, thanks for the feedback. Some add'l thoughts -- oddly enough and to her great credit, my wife has expressed concern for how this could affect the widow. She's offered that if I say our contact has become any sort of issue for me she's thinking that could heap guilt and additional burden on someone who's already dealing with a lost husband and child (the two of them have met several times, though my wife is of course not happy with the situation). Her solution is that I dribble away from a contact standpoint, gradually, politely, etc. so that she finds other support aside from me on her own.

 

Sadly enough, this isn't a hoax, it's quite real. I have altered a few facts that don't affect the essence of the situation, because it's a small world and you just never know who knows who on different forums (eg, she's not from Vancouver).

 

Do I love this woman? On some level I suppose. But I surely don't wish to be married to her, I just started into this with good intentions, got more involved that I realized at the time, and am now seeking the best solution.

 

Thanks to all for your help.

[coquina]

About 2 weeks after my husband died suddenly and unexpectedly, I attended my 35th high school reunion. It was the first "social" thing I had done, but old high school friends were coming from all over the country and I didn't want to miss seeing them.

 

There was a guy there with whom I was a very close friend all the way through high school. He is married, but his wife didn't come to the function and we sat together and talked about what we had done. We had a similar common interest in boating and we both are small business owners.

 

When the reunion was over, I had no idea that I would hear from him again, but the next day I got an email. (We had all received a program containing contact info for one another.)

 

The bottom line was that we corresponded daily for almost a year. This guy literally saved my sanity. For one thing, I could discuss business problems with him, which I would have never done with my friends around here. For another, he used to be premed, and when my mom got a staph infection from hip replacement surgery, he made helpful suggestions about what to ask the docs.

 

I still consider him one of my closest friends. I asked him how his wife felt about our correspondance, and he said she trusted him and viewed it as 2 old friends corresponding. There was never anything romantic between us in the least.

 

Your widow friend is going through the most difficult time in her life. It is wonderful that you have been there for her. People always tell us "you are so strong". I don't know what they expect to see - perhaps wailing, tearing of hair, and rending of clothes. In the beginning we are numb, then we are broadsided with the knowledge that he ain't ever coming back, and if anything in our life is gonna get done, we are going to have to get off our dittyboxes and do it.

 

As far as your marriage goes - take a lesson from us both - treasure what you have, it could be gone in a heartbeat. Never miss an opportunity to tell your wife how much you love her and how much she means to you. Most importantly of all "Don't sweat the small stuff." Realize, that given the perspective of a life ending circumstance, everything else is small.

 

With regard to your widow friend - if you want to put her in touch with me, you're welcome to do so. Also, please let her know about an invaluable internet support group called "Widownet" - I hang out there when I'm not here. http://www.widownet.org/

 

There is a really great forum set up similar to this one, and they have "get togethers" where members of the "involuntarily unspoused" can meet and share experiences. PM me is I can help more.

[Guest franco38]

Sandi,

 

Thanks for your post and sorry for your loss. Your words really made me feel better about what's happening and I've sent it to my wife. My friend, I don't think, would appreciate that I've put this thread out here so while I welcome your offer I don't think it will work.

 

I tend to be the overly-sensitive, somewhat compulsive type, so while her view of this is no doubt very much like yours was with your male friend, clearly what's happened is that I've become overly indulged in the situation and it's twisted my head somewhat.

 

I think some rational discussion between my wife and I, and some counseling, will help, and I do think there's a way I can remain as a friend without the stress. Just don't know how.

 

A q though: if you're friend had told you, say, 8 months into it, that the contact was bothering him and perhaps affecting his marriage, would this have been devastating to you? My wife as I mentioned wonders if my doing that would be a severe blow to this person who has had not one, but two great losses. Four if you count the other two.

 

Thanks again,

 

F

[coquina]

Sandi' date='

 

A q though: if you're friend had told you, say, 8 months into it, that the contact was bothering him and perhaps affecting his marriage, would this have been devastating to you? My wife as I mentioned wonders if my doing that would be a severe blow to this person who has had not one, but two great losses. Four if you count the other two.

 

Thanks again,

 

F[/quote']

 

No - I don't think you have to be overt about distancing yourself from the relationship. Don't respond as often, and be brief in your communication. You don't have to explain everything chapter and verse, she will read between the lines.

[Severian]

I'm trying with little luck to get my wife to agree to marriage counseling but she's thus far refused. She sees no problem in our marriage that's worth going to counseling over' date=' even though I 've told her repeatedly that though I love her, I feel our marriage is almost a functional partnership and that I don't feel enough there's enough emotional sharing and love as is needed, at least not as much as I need.

[/quote']

 

Ask for a divorce and move on. When its over its over.

[Guest franco38]

Sandi,

 

A question for you. With your male friend, was their ever any discomfort for either party, or confusion, regarding the platonic nature of the friendship? On occasion my friend has emailed some considerations that make me wonder -- talking of her need for self-stimulation, really personal items of the sort (sometimes I think, well I know, she drinks too much and writes stuff she later regrets). Once or twice she mentioned meeting me if I were to visit anywhere near her hometown. I don't know what to make of it though, it could be that she sees me as "just one of the girls" or something. Historically she's had close friendships with other gents that were/are totally platonic so while the ego side of me of course almost wants to think one thing, the rational caring side is thinking "Good Jesus I hope not!".

[Coral Rhedd]

Ask for a divorce and move on. When its over its over.

 

Severian,

 

Do you recall reading in Franco's first post that there are young children involved? Franco seems interested in working on his marriage. It does not sound over to me.

 

Two things I never advise people: To marry or to divorce.

[Coral Rhedd]

Sandi' date='

I don't know what to make of it though, it could be that she sees me as "just one of the girls" or something. Historically she's had close friendships with other gents that were/are totally platonic so while the ego side of me of course almost wants to think one thing, the rational caring side is thinking "Good Jesus I hope not!".[/quote']

 

I hope you do not mind my 2 cents worth again Franco.

 

I have male friends but it is difficult to think of them as "just one of the girls," since men and women seem to think so differently. In my experience, I think I appreciate the differences between my male and female friends and still appreciate the unique qualities that men bring to friendship without thinking in romantic terms.

 

As a writer, getting the male's perspective is essential for me. I was also fortunate enough to grow up the three brothers. (Well they were younger so sometimes this was a pain. ) One of the things I find really challenging as a writer is to write from the male perspective. I have been told that I do this well, but to my mind I have never quite succeeded. My weakest story is told from a man's POV. I am always trying to puzzle out the male mind.

 

I think women will never think of their men friends as being the same a women friends. However, I think women often long for male friends who never feel compelled to sexualize the relationship. For me, this would be (warning cliche follows) a breath of fresh air.

[Bettina]

Sandi' date='

 

A question for you. With your male friend, was their ever any discomfort for either party, or confusion, regarding the platonic nature of the friendship? On occasion my friend has emailed some considerations that make me wonder -- talking of her need for self-stimulation, really personal items of the sort (sometimes I think, well I know, she drinks too much and writes stuff she later regrets). Once or twice she mentioned meeting me if I were to visit anywhere near her hometown. I don't know what to make of it though, it could be that she sees me as "just one of the girls" or something. Historically she's had close friendships with other gents that were/are totally platonic so while the ego side of me of course almost wants to think one thing, the rational caring side is thinking "Good Jesus I hope not!".[/quote']

 

I haven't changed my opinion of this yet. She does not see you as "one of the girls", at least from my POV. She is lonely, and you are vulnerable, and if you two met, it would go much farther. I'm confused (I'm young) with your attitude of "I don't know what to make of it though" statement. You don't seem to...already are....or pretending not to.... be reading between the lines, but I am.......

 

If you want to save your family, you better send this person to the place that Sandi mentioned, and concentrate on saving what you already have. Take it from me, a dad who no longer lives at home is not good for the kids.

 

I don't see a happy ending if you two meet.

 

Bettina

[coquina]

Sandi' date='

 

A question for you. With your male friend, was their ever any discomfort for either party, or confusion, regarding the platonic nature of the friendship? On occasion my friend has emailed some considerations that make me wonder -- talking of her need for self-stimulation, really personal items of the sort (sometimes I think, well I know, she drinks too much and writes stuff she later regrets). Once or twice she mentioned meeting me if I were to visit anywhere near her hometown. I don't know what to make of it though, it could be that she sees me as "just one of the girls" or something. Historically she's had close friendships with other gents that were/are totally platonic so while the ego side of me of course almost wants to think one thing, the rational caring side is thinking "Good Jesus I hope not!".[/quote']

 

One of the things that comes up very frequently on the widowed board is the issue of "skin hunger". When someone has been sexually active with someone they love, and that source of affection suddenly is gone, the body apparently doesn't have time to figure out what the mind knows.

 

It is not uncommon for widowed people too drink to much. Many of us are given anti-anxiety medication and anti-depressants, just so we can get through the early stages of grief. People still have to function during the day, if they expect to bring home a paycheck and take care of themselves and their kids. However, I think the combination makes the part of the brain that says "it's Ok to think that, but for God's sake don't tell anyone" go on holiday.

 

I did talk some about things with my friend. I can remember telling him, "If anyone had told me six months ago that I would have to consider these thoughts, I would have laughed in their face. When I was in high school, my biggest fear was that indescretion would result in an unwanted pregnancy. I am beyond that now, but there are worse things out there. How does one deal with the health issues when one thinks things might be progressing to the next level?

 

Of course, I grew up in a man's world, and am frequently more comfortable talking to men than I am with women. Perhaps she is the same.

 

She desperately needs to talk to someone about these issues, you can listen, but it will be hard to offer advice, because believe me when I tell you, you can't begin to imagine what it is like to find yourself suddenly partnerless, and not of your own chosing.

 

Widownet has been written up in several magazines and newspaper articles. You could always say that you heard or read about it somewhere, but don't remember where.

 

I found it by googling "widow" and "grief", so it's not like it's hard to find.

[j_p]

If both you and your wife sense the relationship is getting out of hand, you are probably right.

 

Something that Coquina did not mention in her description of a widow[er]'s physical loneliness, and that has obviously not occured to your and your wife is that you are safe.

You are married, a friend of her late husband, and, most importantly, a continent away; she doesn't have to worry about falling into bed with you. So she is free to fantasize about it.

 

Practical advice on how to remove the latent sexual component in the relationship: have your wife start talking to the widow. She should email her occasionally, ask how she is doing, what the hot new travelling exhibit currently on display in "Vancouver" is like, whatever. Give the widow a new contact, relieve your wife's sensation that she is excluded, deny your fantasy lover status.

[coquina]

If both you and your wife sense the relationship is getting out of hand' date=' you are probably right.

 

Something that Coquina did not mention in her description of a widow[er']'s physical loneliness, and that has obviously not occured to your and your wife is that you are safe.

You are married, a friend of her late husband, and, most importantly, a continent away; she doesn't have to worry about falling into bed with you. So she is free to fantasize about it.

 

Practical advice on how to remove the latent sexual component in the relationship: have your wife start talking to the widow. She should email her occasionally, ask how she is doing, what the hot new travelling exhibit currently on display in "Vancouver" is like, whatever. Give the widow a new contact, relieve your wife's sensation that she is excluded, deny your fantasy lover status.

 

You are certainly right about that. I don't have any kids living at home, but Butch was loud and boistrous. The only thing he ever did quietly was to die.

 

The silence and aloneness at night are the worst things. I used to go shopping at Walmart at 11pm just to be someplace where there were people.

 

Late at night you get beset by the "what if's" and the "woulda, coulda, shoulda's".

 

One other thing I should mention is that you often feel deserted by your old friends. Butch and I had a load of them. For a while, I continued to go to our club and meet with them. However, when I walked in the door, they got that "kicked puppy" look in their eyes. They missed him too, and I was a reminder. To them I will always be "Butch's widow", and not my own person.

 

Your friend is going to have to make her own new life. It was one she was thrust into, and didn't chose. It's like being tossed out of a whitewater canoe with no life vest or helmet. You have to try to make shore without being sucked down by whirlpools or battered into rocks.

 

As she meets new people, she will frequently be "hit on" by people who think she is an easy target. Friends will try to "fix her up" because they want to get her out of "5th wheel syndrome".

 

In my case, I was married the first time when I was 17. I had never lived on my own - I was always, "somebody's daughter" or "somebody's wife". My mother died 6 months after my husband, so I suddenly found myself "nobody's nothing". At first, I was desperate to find someone. Then I came to the realization that I couldn't be someone else's partner until I learn who I am.

 

Your friend is probably going through all of the above and more. For one thing, I can assure you that she dreads going to bed at night. Ain't nothing worse than sleeping single in a double bed when you're not used to it, especially with constant reminder of the empty side. I set a big nylon laundry bag on Butch's side of the bed, just so I don't see it empty.

 

She may be trying to get a man's point of view from you. It is very difficult to contemplate dating after being with the same person for 31 years.

 

I'm going to DC to see my daughter this afternoon and won't be back til Monday, so if you have comments, do be surprised if you don't get a response back right away.

[Guest franco38]

The insight offered here has been helpful, esp.the pain and confusion around losing one's spouse. With my friend, I guess what we can't even comprehend is that on top of that, she lost a young child. What she's experiencing is unreal and unimaginable.

 

For me, if I'm honest, my heart, soul and head has gotten so indulged in this situation that it's eating at me in a very big way. I think of her, what she's doing, how she's feeling, almost constantly. I worry. In so many ways I wish I'd never become a central character in this tragic plot.

 

It doesn't help much that she and I have some common perspectives that have forged the bond further -- twisted senses of humor being chief. If we were completely different or if she just wasn't likeable this bond wouldn't have gotten so tight. I like that she tells me how much I've helped, that she thinks of me as a big brother and has a love in the sibling sense. We sign our emails "Love F", "Love S" -- my wife is ok with that, sort of -- "S" started it early on and I wasn't sure how she'd react if I didn't reciprocate. Part of me likes this role, selfish as it is for me to think of benefiting from someone else's tragedy, but in honesty, it makes me feel worthwhile to receive feedback that I'm assistng her in a big way when she's facing stress none of us can imagine.

 

So what to do? Aside from the strong emotional bond and friendship, I'm very curious to stay in touch with her only to see how she and her other child get on. Call it morbid curiousity in an intriguing story if you will but again, I'm being honest with all here -- you've been honest with me (Yes, I've disguised some other details here, this accident made CNN news at the national and international levels and was a big, big thing, but I can't say more -- my industry is scientific in nature and someone will put it all together if I further divulge - Sandi for that reason, please don't mention this on the widow forum you've talked about as she could well post there and probably does).

 

So I'm rambling, don't know how to end this. So I'll just end it.