BBC: Sims creator takes on evolution

[CurvKyle]

Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/4576855.stm

 

Sims creator takes on evolution

Alfred Hermida

Technology editor, BBC News website, in Los Angeles

 

 

The creator of the hugely popular Sims game is working on an ambitious title in which you can truly be God.

 

Called Spore, the game allows players to determine the evolution of a species, from an amoeba to an inter-stellar race.

 

Sims creator Will Wright offered an insight into the game at last week's E3 expo in Los Angeles.

 

The PC game is due to be in stores by autumn of 2006.

 

Reality simulated

 

Will Wright made his name in the games industry with the computer simulation game SimCity.

 

When it launched in 1989, SimCity became a huge hit with players who wanted to do more with their games.

 

You end up playing a galaxy of 100,000s of worlds. And because players are creating the worlds, everything will be different

Will Wright

Mr Wright went on to create The Sims in 2000, which let players run the lives of virtual people.

 

It quickly became the best-selling PC game of all time and opened up a different understanding of what a game was and how real life itself was much like a game.

 

With Spore, Mr Wright is taking this idea one step further, by developing a title based on the evolution of life.

 

"I want to allow people to create their own world," he said during a demonstration of the game, Spore, at the E3 games Expo.

 

Generation game

 

In the game, players start off as an amoeba in a 2D world, reminiscent of some early video games.

 

The aim is to grow and evolve generations of creatures, with players able to choose the physical attributes of their creation.

 

"You get to play every generation of the creature," said Mr Wright. "I want something boys can make scary things or casual gamers can make cute things."

 

He said the computer would analyse a creature's design and work out how it should behave.

 

In the demonstration, Mr Wright created a three-legged creature and said the software would work out how it should walk.

 

"This is the hardest piece of technology I have ever had to solve," he said.

 

Galactic play

 

Spore comes across as a mix of The Sims and games like Civilisation, where players determine the progress of a race.

 

The imagination of players is integral to the game. It is not set up as a traditional multiplayer title, in which gamers play against each other.

 

Instead the aim is to use a central computer to gather players' creations and share them with everyone playing the game.

 

"You end up playing a galaxy of 100,000s of worlds. And because players are creating the worlds, everything will be different," said Mr Wright

 

In the demo, he showed how a gamer would end up travelling through space, exploring the universe in search for intelligent life.

 

"I can play Star Trek and build a federation of planets or I can play 2001 and drop a obelisk to collect information," said Mr Wright.

 

Spore comes across as an ambitious title. It is still in the early stages of development, so it is impossible to say whether it will live up to its promise.

 

Fans will have to wait until the autumn of next year to get their hands on the PC game.

Story from BBC NEWS:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/technology/4576855.stm

 

Published: 2005/05/26 08:52:38 GMT

 

© BBC MMV

 

The pictures aren't nearly as jaw-dropping as the video demonstration

 

http://www.pqhp.com/cmp/gdctv/

 

use account: mex

[Ophiolite]

So, he's squarely in the Intelligent Design camp, then. More sub-cutaneous, anti-evolution propaganda.

[Pangloss]

Thanks for the links. I've been kinda distantly following this but I hadn't seen any pictures or video on it yet.

 

The idea of having content automatically generated and generated by other players is interesting, and seems to address the problem of originality in emergent games. Whether or not he can actually accomplish it is another question.

[Mokele]

So, he's squarely in the Intelligent Design camp, then. More sub-cutaneous, anti-evolution propaganda.

 

Um, no, he's not, nor do I see anything in that article to even suggest that as a motivation or a position. This game no more promotes intelligent design than "Black and White" promoted theism or the "Civilization" series promotes theocracy by control of a divine geek.

 

Users control the evolution and design creatures because without those features it wouldn't be interactive at all, much less actually fun. This game is, in essence, a new version of "sim-life", a game that's a bit similar (though more ecologically oriented) and much more primitive (it was released for windows 3.1).

 

I think you're just jumping at shadows. And, frankly, the fact that ID has become so pervasive as to engender such a response in even you makes me have serious doubts about the long-term future of *our* species.

 

Mokele

[RedAlert]

Interesting....I am guessing it would be very expensive? It would need a huge amount of programming, art work, etc. etc.....hence it will also have a huuuugggeeee price tag.

 

But I would still love to try it. I like the Star Trek part of the game

 

Here is the official site for those who would like to visit it: http://spore.ea.com/

[husmusen]

It quickly became the best-selling PC game of all time and opened up a different understanding of what a game was and how real life itself was much like a game.

Strange I thought the Japanese had life simulation games before the anglos.

 

So, he's squarely in the Intelligent Design camp, then. More sub-cutaneous, anti-evolution propaganda.

Talk about touchy.

 

That said.

This game sounds like iit could be a really cool game. I mean like a

game I'd be willing to upgrade the PC to play.

 

It all depends on wether they make the results truly user

driven, or wether it ends up being a, you get to choose from

a subset of choices, game.

 

I don't see cost as being such a huge issue, games are big business

now, and a blockbuster could reap a tidy amount.

 

Cheers.

[Ophiolite]

So, he's squarely in the Intelligent Design camp, then. More sub-cutaneous, anti-evolution propaganda.

Um' date=' no, he's not, nor do I see anything in that article to even suggest that as a motivation or a position.

I think you're just jumping at shadows. And, frankly, the fact that ID has become so pervasive as to engender such a response in even you makes me have serious doubts about the long-term future of *our* species.

[/quote']

Ah. I had taken a heavy dose of my irony pills that day. I have no idea whether or not he is an ID proponent. Well, in fact, I rather suspect not, or he would not have produced software that deals with evolution.

But I think you are missing one important point: regardless of the reasons, from a game play standpoint, that the player designs his creatures, they are, exactly that: designed.

That does deliver a subtle, but pervasive message to the uneducated player of the game about the driving force of evolution. In short the mechanism in the game is so far removed from that of true evolution that I am tempted to take him to court under the Trades Description Act. (This would support one of my other favoured causes: the resdistribution of wealth, preferably from others to me.)

It is only(?) a game, but a game that could mislead thinking in a direction that can then be exploited by the Intelligent Design fraternity.

[jdurg]

Good god guys, THIS IS A FREAKING VIDEO GAME!!!! There is NO attempt to persuade people into different levels of thinking or cause them to act and behave in manners that the designers feel are the "right ones". This is an idea someone had and they wanted to put it into a videogame. If you can't see it as that, then you need to get off of your high horse and come back to reality for a little bit. Jesus christ. If you think this game is going to cause hundreds of millions of people to start thinking that this is the 100% correct theory on evolution, then you must also think that just because you've played SimCity that you can run an entire Metropolis without any problems at all. Or that because you've played 'The Sims' you have a complete, full understanding of the human race. Or because you've played a flight simulator you can fly a commercial jet without any training required. It is a videogame designed to give people a good time in a fantasy world. It is not political, theological, or scientific propaganda. It's a video game! (Sorry for the rant, but my only 'red button' is when people have to think that there's a conspiracy behind everything, even something as simple as a videogame).

[Ophiolite]

You are identified as a Chemistry Expert. Chemistry is a noble science, and, in my experience, chemists are required to make as much use of logic as other scientists.So, with that in mind, would you care to tell me where in my posts, I suggest that there is any conspiracy.

I'll save you the bother. I don't.

Since joining this forum in October last year I have seen countless posts by creationists using the flimsiest shreds of 'fact' to support their views. And yes, there are people out there, having played 'The Sims' do think they understand the human race. And there will be people who play this game and think they understand evolution.

I know it's only a video game! You know it's a video game. We aren't everyone.

Now before you rant at one of my posts again and accuse me of seeing conspiracies try reading the bleeding thing and see what I say, not what your fantasies and predjudices want to see.

[-Demosthenes-]

Well you are acting a little bit like the stereotype "crazy evolutionist" that anti-evolutionists use against us.

[Ophiolite]

Expand please.

[Mokele]

I'm sorry, but I'm firmly with Jdurg on this, and to underscore, *I* would do the same thing if I were personally designing this game. If there's no user interface, there's no game. If the game is about evolution, you *MUST* give the player input and control, or it becomes a purely passive experience. That's not a game, that's TV.

 

Might people take the wrong idea from it? Sure. They might also get the wrong idea from Grand Theft Auto. But just as game companies are not responsible for the moral decisions people make, they are likewise not responsible for remedying the deficiencies of the US educational system. If people draw the wrong conclusions, that's *not* the game's fault, and, rather than pointing the finger of blame to the game, we should work on actually making US HS diplomas worth more than used toilet paper so that people don't *make* those mistakes.

 

Mokele

[calbiterol]

I think the game looks quite interesting. I wonder how he'll work with intelligence? How do you guys think he'll implement that rung of the evolutionary ladder? I saw mention of an interstellar race, but how would that be "engineered" [read: created] by the player?

[husmusen]

And there are people who play chess who think that makes them

automatically smart and logical.

I don't pick on chess for this.

 

Well, I refrained from a broadside because I thought the poster must

have just skimmed the title and completely misunderstood.

 

I feel that objecting to this game is as inappropriate as objecting

to say genetic algorithms , on the grounds they may "indoctrinate" people

into becomming mindless slaves of evolution.

 

It's silly.

 

But JDurg pretty well said everything I was thinking.

 

By opheolite to jdurg:

where in my posts, I suggest that there is any conspiracy.

anti-evolution propaganda.

Doesn't "propaganda", imply some sort of organised, willful attempt to

disemminate ideas and notions in order to advance a cuase or interest?

 

Cheers.

[husmusen]

I wonder how he'll work with intelligence? How do you guys think he'll implement that rung of the evolutionary ladder? I saw mention of an interstellar race, but how would that be "engineered" [read: created] by the player?

 

A good question.

 

The first thing that pops into my mind is a massively enhanced

forn of the MoO 2 or MoO3 Species attribute points.

 

E.g. Ranges for gravity, atmosphere tolerances, acidity tolerances,

water->Dryness tolerances, Creativity, intelligence, organic redunancy,

metabolic sources, cyberbetic, and so on.

 

Of course that's just what I would do, they no doubt have ther own ideas.

 

Cheers.

[Ophiolite]

Guys, try getting a grip of reality here. I am not condeming the game. I am not claiming some strange conspiracy. Frankly, I don't give a rats ass about the game. If, I did; if I was trying to create an equivalent game, yes, I would go down the same root that has been followed. That in no way invalidates the simple suite of observations, I have made, and which I stand by: some of those who favour the concept of Intelligent Design will use (misuse, would be better) the methodology of this game; some uninformed persons, teetering on the edge of becoming creationists will misinterpret the methodology of the game.

Now, are any of you saying that these two statements are false? Because that is all I am saying. I am very definitely not saying that because of this the game should be censored, re-written, abandoned, or whatever. I am just saying, as sure as night follows days, some people will abuse and misinterpret the game.

This point seemed so blatantly obvious I almost didn't bother making it. (I rather wish I hadn't!) Since it did appear, to me, to be so obvious, I phrased my opening remark as an ironic observation. When Mokele failed to see this I identified it as irony in my second post. (Which is why, husmusen, the phrase 'anti-evolution propaganda' doesn't count as me claiming a conspiracy, since I intended it as irony and identified it as such as soon as it was clear I had not communicated effectively.)

And to repeat, Mokele, I am not pointing the finger of blame at the games company, nor did I intend, nor do I think there is anything in my posts that suggests I am pointing the finger of blame.

Now, if we can just agree that I have failed singularily to communicate my thoughts on this matter to you all in a clear fashion, can we then move on?

[jdurg]

So, he's squarely in the Intelligent Design [/i'] camp, then. More sub-cutaneous, anti-evolution propaganda.

 

Sorry Ophiolite, I didn't mean to pick on you squarely, but by your first post in this thread which I have quoted above, you stated "More sub-cutaneous, anti-evolution propaganda". Sub-cutaneous, from what I have been taught, means 'under the skin'. So in saying 'sub-cutaneous, anti-evolution propaganda' it comes out as if you said 'Hidden creationist propaganda' as anything 'under the skin' is hidden from view. If they were trying to exhibit anti-evolution propaganda without coming right out and saying it, then it would have to be a conspiracy of some sort, correct? (Since conspiracies aren't the sort of thing that are talked about in an open fashion).

 

(BTW, I fall into the evolution and not creationism group. With a background in science, I just fail to see any solid arguments in favor of creationism).

 

Anyway, to get back on topic, these type of games are always high on my priority list. I must have played SimCity to death when it came out, and I still play SimCity 4 every now and then. I'm just in higher anticipation of of Civilization 4 coming out.

[Ophiolite]

Thanks jdurg. I agree (as noted in a post above) that my ironic intent should have been better signaled and then all this side debate would have been avoided. I have yet to find a game that adequately captures my imagination

I live in hope (well there was space invaders!)

[husmusen]

I am very definitely not saying that because of this the game should be censored, re-written, abandoned, or whatever.

 

Thats cool.

 

Cheers.

[calbiterol]

Well, I have to say, after watching the entire hour on the link that Kyle gave, the demo Will Wright gave explains the rise of intelligence. I am by no means a good person to tell you about it (if you want the best people, watch the vid), but basically when your species become intelligent, they become a tribe, and your focus moves to the tribe, in a kind of socialogical way, and you build vehicles and stuff, and eventually spaceships (all of which you can edit just like your creatures in the beginning) and you can run around colonizing other planets, transporting/abducting other wildlife, etc. It looks really, really intriguing at that level, if you ask me. I have to say though, Will Wright has a... differend... sense of humor. I liked it. :-D

[Mokele]

you can run around colonizing other planets, transporting/abducting other wildlife, etc.

 

I take it then that one of the tech-trees involves anal probes? ;-)

 

Mokele

[bascule]

This seems an awful lot like an old Maxis title, Unnatural Selection

[Mokele]

Actually, it's based on an even older Maxis title, Sim-life, and is being designed by the same guy.

 

Mokele