Question about perceptual manipulation

[AbnormallyHonest]

This is a question pertaining to a variation of the double slit experiment.

 

If you were to manipulate the light from a source to bend before it passed through the slit, an observer would not be aware that the light had originated from an indirect line of sight. Is it possible to create this scenario, but before the energy passed through the slit, remove the catalyst for the manipulation, also only allowing it to be observed after the removal?

 

Under these circumstances, could it be possible to manipulate the origin, (due to the removal of a discrete possibility prior to the observation) to conform to the linear perception of it rather than the actual one?

[Mordred]

You have already collapsed the state of the photon when you interfere with the beam. It would be the equivalent of passing the beam through a slit.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Mordred

[swansont]

I don't understand what you're asking.

 

You can put a mirror in the beam path and then send it into the double-slit. The light path is then bent. You will still see interference. If you remove the mirror, the beam won't hit the slits.

[AbnormallyHonest]

You have already collapsed the state of the photon when you interfere with the beam. It would be the equivalent of passing the beam through a slit.

 

Yes, but the slit greatly reduces the potential source of the light being separate for the differing properties, which I would suggest may have been the intent of the experiment.

 

I don't understand what you're asking.

 

You can put a mirror in the beam path and then send it into the double-slit. The light path is then bent. You will still see interference. If you remove the mirror, the beam won't hit the slits.

 

Yes, but light, as well as massive particles, have a finite speed in space. Doesn't that stand to reason that the mirror could be removed from the system prior to the beam hitting the slits. Wouldn't that suggest, that if you remove the mirror, the beam would still hit the slits?

[swansont]

Yes, but light, as well as massive particles, have a finite speed in space. Doesn't that stand to reason that the mirror could be removed from the system prior to the beam hitting the slits. Wouldn't that suggest, that if you remove the mirror, the beam would still hit the slits?

Sure. What effect do you think it will have?

[AbnormallyHonest]

Sure. What effect do you think it will have?

Well, I think that the scientific method was only applicable because of the union of the origin independent of the properties displayed. In the removal of a discrete source upon observation, the actual origin could be altered to be consistent with the only potential location available at the moment of observation. This would require that the source would be in direct line of sight for all 3 points to be unified as part of the same system. If you had identical sources at both possible origins, I think the reality might show, empirically that the direct location actually emitted the energy, which would have no significance other than the wrong source fired off. The disparity of the result and the intention of the experiment would be the measurement.

[swansont]

Well, I think that the scientific method was only applicable because of the union of the origin independent of the properties displayed. In the removal of a discrete source upon observation, the actual origin could be altered to be consistent with the only potential location available at the moment of observation. This would require that the source would be in direct line of sight for all 3 points to be unified as part of the same system. If you had identical sources at both possible origins, I think the reality might show, empirically that the direct location actually emitted the energy, which would have no significance other than the wrong source fired off. The disparity of the result and the intention of the experiment would be the measurement.

Light travels at c. How would the information propagate to get to the photons hitting the double slit? And what physics says it would matter, anyway?

[AbnormallyHonest]

Light travels at c. How would the information propagate to get to the photons hitting the double slit? And what physics says it would matter, anyway?

Between the reflection and the slit, there is time which the "mirror" could be removed. After passing through the slit, to the observer, and in reality, there is only one potential location for the source of the light.

 

Quantum mechanics I believe says it would matter. It might demonstrate that the quantum perception is actually independent of spacetime. e.g. Spacial coordinates are uncertain.

[swansont]

Between the reflection and the slit, there is time which the "mirror" could be removed. After passing through the slit, to the observer, and in reality, there is only one potential location for the source of the light.

Quantum mechanics I believe says it would matter. It might demonstrate that the quantum perception is actually independent of spacetime. e.g. Spacial coordinates are uncertain.

I am not aware of any physics that says the source matters.

[AbnormallyHonest]

I am not aware of any physics that says the source matters.

I believe all physics as well as the scientific method relies that events unfold linearly. Does the double slit experiment matter?

 

Creatively, your suggestion implies that there is no such thing as travel or displacement.

[Mordred]

I'm really trying to figure out what your getting at. A mirror causes a 180 degree phase change. There is two types of interferance constructive or destructive.

 

However I could be misreading your posts but it sounds like your complaining about the two slit without even taking the time to understand it.

 

For example quantum perception is meaningless. If your referring to quantum observation this is an interference from the original source.

 

In point of detail it is the interference from each slit that generates the patterns involved.

 

Now assuming your in fact just trying to setup a different type of experiment. You can calculate the interferance pattern from the mirrors as this is a well tested arena. Placement of a single mirror and angle yo beam is important however in the type of interferance you will get.

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=http://web.pdx.edu/~bseipel/203-CH23.pdf&ved=0ahUKEwiu4Za3p8jTAhUJz2MKHVhMAc4QFghSMA8&usg=AFQjCNGQJTj2TK9j5JYOwIXeq9SU1c3mIw&sig2=XZE3ZenElLQEW5SJ-yZYIA

 

here is a brief pdf to assist.

Edited April 28, 2017 by Mordred

[AbnormallyHonest]

I'm really trying to figure out what your getting at. A mirror causes a 180 degree phase change. There is two types of interferance constructive or destructive.

 

However I could be misreading your posts but it sounds like your complaining about the two slit without even taking the time to understand it.

 

For example quantum perception is meaningless. If your referring to quantum observation this is an interference from the original source.

 

In point of detail it is the interference from each slit that generates the patterns involved.

The destructive interference is the perception, the source is the origin of the waveform that can be interference. The slits are a way to localize a waveform to validate that it is emamating from the source and not some other adjacent source. The experiment is just a way to establish a control of the source so you know that there isn't interference from other possible origins. e.g. Unifying the potential origins will establish if it is a wave or a particle... or perhaps the intention anyway.

 

If I perceive a waveform after it passes the slit, the interference collapses the waveform to particle like behavior, but with these properties, the singular nature of a particle implies that it must've been a particle throughout the whole journey to the perception, because if it had gone through the other slit it would not have been perceived. So, this is the case with this experiment as well, so the question is whether or not the actual source is the one that is created or the one that is perceived. This could lead to discoveries of how the information is apparent through the life of energy, and if it really is independent of time or spacial coordinates, or if the two can even be separated. It would also harbor insight as to how perception interferes with the waveform, if it's an energetic, a diffusion, or neutral interaction... which could also possibly quantify the potential energy of consciousness.

 

It was only a thought experiment, not a result. I thought someone might be able to provide answers as to the what the data would suggest, if there are answers currently in the understanding.

[AbnormallyHonest]

I'm really trying to figure out what your getting at. A mirror causes a 180 degree phase change. There is two types of interferance constructive or destructive.

 

However I could be misreading your posts but it sounds like your complaining about the two slit without even taking the time to understand it.

 

For example quantum perception is meaningless. If your referring to quantum observation this is an interference from the original source.

 

In point of detail it is the interference from each slit that generates the patterns involved.

The destructive interference is the perception, the source is the origin of the waveform that can be interference. The slits are a way to localize a waveform to validate that it is emamating from the source and not some other adjacent source. The experiment is just a way to establish a control of the source so you know that there isn't interference from other possible origins. e.g. Unifying the potential origins will establish if it is a wave or a particle... or perhaps the intention anyway.

 

If I perceive a waveform after it passes the slit, the interference collapses the waveform to particle like behavior, but with these properties, the singular nature of a particle implies that it must've been a particle throughout the whole journey to the perception, because if it had gone through the other slit it would not have been perceived. So, this is the case with this experiment as well, so the question is whether or not the actual source is the one that is created or the one that is perceived. This could lead to discoveries of how the information is apparent through the life of energy, and if it really is independent of time or spacial coordinates, or if the two can even be separated. It would also harbor insight as to how perception interferes with the waveform, if it's an energetic, a diffusion, or neutral interaction... which could also possibly quantify the potential energy of consciousness.

 

It was only a thought experiment, not a result. I thought someone might be able to provide answers as to the what the data would suggest, if there are answers currently in the understanding.

[Delta1212]

I'm still not entirely clear on what you think sticking a mirror in the experiment actually does that's different from how it typically works.

[Mordred]

Well if there is (probably is) then I will have to search out those details. Umm still questioning how your defining "perception" in a quantum experiment. However be that as it may.

 

Your mirror will also cause additional diffraction which will cause a problem in slit size required to get the two patterns from mirror in place or mirror removed. This will cause an additional error margin that will need to be accounted for.

 

You also have the 180 degree phase shift as mentioned before.

 

However you may want to read this.

 

"There are no particles, there are only fields". Pay particular attention to how a particle is defined by its wavefunctions. Their is a good coverage of how this applies to the two slit experiment.

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.4616&ved=0ahUKEwjRh-rFrcjTAhUOz2MKHbmHBhIQFggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNEqAKaDGcbyMG2ax22sA9BakBSaTQ&sig2=wLTgJuTGOd4DGY94v98oEQ

 

There is one particular line I would like to quote.

 

"Quanta that are superpositions of different frequencies can be more spatially bunched and in this sense more localized"

 

This is definitely applicable in this experiment. Key note all quantum numbers have wavefunctions including spin. So the additional interference will have affects on your spin probabilities.

Edited April 29, 2017 by Mordred

[swansont]

I believe all physics as well as the scientific method relies that events unfold linearly. Does the double slit experiment matter?

Creatively, your suggestion implies that there is no such thing as travel or displacement.

There's a tremendous gap between what I said and what you've concluded. My suggestion was to provide some physics to back up your claim. This is the physics section, after all. I'm at a loss to see how that implies there is no such thing as travel or displacement.

If I perceive a waveform after it passes the slit, the interference collapses the waveform to particle like behavior, but with these properties, the singular nature of a particle implies that it must've been a particle throughout the whole journey to the perception, because if it had gone through the other slit it would not have been perceived.

The interference does not collapse the waveform into a particle, and nothing about this implies that it was a particle all along.

[AbnormallyHonest]

Well if there is (probably is) then I will have to search out those details. Umm still questioning how your defining "perception" in a quantum experiment. However be that as it may.

 

Your mirror will also cause additional diffraction which will cause a problem in slit size required to get the two patterns from mirror in place or mirror removed. This will cause an additional error margin that will need to be accounted for.

 

You also have the 180 degree phase shift as mentioned before.

 

However you may want to read this.

 

"There are no particles, there are only fields". Pay particular attention to how a particle is defined by its wavefunctions. Their is a good coverage of how this applies to the two slit experiment.

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://arxiv.org/pdf/1204.4616&ved=0ahUKEwjRh-rFrcjTAhUOz2MKHbmHBhIQFggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNEqAKaDGcbyMG2ax22sA9BakBSaTQ&sig2=wLTgJuTGOd4DGY94v98oEQ

 

There is one particular line I would like to quote.

 

"Quanta that are superpositions of different frequencies can be more spatially bunched and in this sense more localized"

 

This is definitely applicable in this experiment. Key note all quantum numbers have wavefunctions including spin. So the additional interference will have affects on your spin probabilities.

Thank you. This type of feedback is much appreciated.

[Mordred]

Your welcome