Gravity is a force .. not Energy

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

Gravity F~ can move and displace matter,,,energy cannot.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[Strange]

Yes, gravity is a force in Newtonian gravity.

 

In GR, it is slightly more subtle: gravity is a result of the curvature of space-time.

[studiot]

Gravity F~ can move and displace matter,,,energy cannot.

 

What happens when you boil a kettle?

 

What force generates the steam as opposed to adding the latent heat causing it?

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

A force , must contain matter in the equation.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[Mordred]

No it must simply contain energy.

 

The definition of energy is the ability to perform work. (energy is a property not a thing unto itself). The ability to perform work can generate force.

 

Matter is fermionic particles not bosons such as light. Yet light can generate force.

 

all these can generate force sufficient to induce kinematic action.

 

 

[latex]\stackrel{Action}{\overbrace{\mathcal{L}}} \sim \stackrel{relativity}{\overbrace{\mathbb{R}}}- \stackrel{Maxwell}{\overbrace{1/4F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu}}}+\stackrel{Dirac}{\overbrace{i \overline{\psi}\gamma_\mu\psi}}+\stackrel{Higg's}{\overbrace{\mid D_\mu h\mid-V\mid h\mid}} +\stackrel{Yugawa-coupling}{\overbrace{h\overline{\psi}\psi}}[/latex]

 

Notice we include the electromagnetic,strong, Higgs, relativity and particle/antiparticle pairs via Dirac.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Mordred

[studiot]

A force , must contain matter in the equation.

 

Forgive me but was that meant to be a reply to my question.

 

If so I really don't understand so please explain in greater detail.

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

Again !~ energy is not a Force in it self ; it can only be called Energy potential to perform work but ; ~ matter must be the one that create the ''Force''

 

I energy is the property that must be transferred to an ''object'' in order to perform work on

 

an ''Object is matter'' So!~ A force , must contain matter in the equation.

Edited April 30, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[Sensei]

 

What happens when you boil a kettle?

 

What force generates the steam as opposed to adding the latent heat causing it?

A force , must contain matter in the equation.

 

If radioactive isotope decays through gamma emission, you have equation:

[math]m_0 c^2=m_1 c^2 \gamma + h*f[/math]

m₀ - rest-mass of unstable isotope prior decay

m₁ - rest-mass of product isotope

h*f - energy of emitted gamma photon

[math]\gamma[/math] - Lorentz factor close to 1.0

 

If you have decaying neutral pi meson, you have equation:

[math]m_0 c^2=h*f + h*f[/math]

m₀ - rest-mass of pion = ~ 134.9766 MeV/c^2

h*f - energy of emitted gamma photon = ~ 67.5 MeV

Edited May 1, 2017 by Sensei

[swansont]

Again !~ energy is not a Force in it self ; it can only be called Energy potential to perform work but ; ~ matter must be the one that create the ''Force''

 

 

 

How do photons slow atoms down if this is true?

[Tim88]

Gravity F~ can move and displace matter,,,energy cannot.

 

It depends on your definitions of force and energy.

If your definition of force is "something that can move and displace matter", then gravity is of course a force.

Einstein called gravity a force while others don't call it a force.

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

Gravitons Scientific Forum

I definitely have to believe they are a component of the Gravitational force(s) an s for more than one graviton.
For matter to be moved or displaced there must be inter action meaning matter does not let itself through by the same .
For every action there is a reaction.To read the weight of a body on the scale demonstrate to me, a force must includes matter in the equation. I Think the third law is valid in this case and self evident.
I think logic is a term that people are lacking in physics afraid to face evidence, when affected by it constantly throughout their life, G.f._
If a PARTICLE is too small to be seen but evidence of it’s action is a fact from the reaction of the other bigger particle, than logic should not be influenced by the size of its opponent._
Gravity is gravitation from gravitons in motion and when constrained by bigger particle in their path they will be felt as a whole on that surface:
Thanks for reading. Roger

Edited May 1, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[DrKrettin]

I think logic is a term that people are lacking in physics afraid to face evidence, when affected by it constantly throughout their life

 

How wrong can somebody be?

Edited May 1, 2017 by DrKrettin

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

How wrong can somebody be?

 

Why I'm I wrong? ~ Dr Krettin

Edited May 1, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[studiot]

I'm still waiting for an explanation of what forces are involved in boiling a kettle (my post#3)

 

A further question to consider.

 

Why is there no matter or mass whatsoever included in the electrostatic force equation.

 

This equation will function equally well in a universe without any matter since charge itself has no mass.

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

I'm still waiting for an explanation of what forces are involved in boiling a kettle (my post#3)

 

The kettle is the Force .../ ~ like the ''shell'' of an Atomize bomb ~ or any container of a gas under pressure before an explosion.

 

Why is there no matter or mass whatsoever included in the electrostatic force equation.

 

The electrostatic feel is not a force ... ~< for example in a nuclear Reactor ,,, the electrostatics feel is only possible with the presence of the ''reactor core'' the force~ the inner shell and between the 185 rods'

 

This equation will function equally well in a universe without any matter since charge itself has no mass.

 

Not if !~ you assume that the smallest particle existing is a cube with it's 8 corners at the center of the cube and with this condition the particle cannot be seen and nether detected to make the particle detectable; intense heat must be submitted to the particle and farther more many of those particles after having been submitted to intense heat and VH pressure will bond together to form visible matter . ( the formation of matter) perhaps~~~~

Edited May 1, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[Mordred]

Roger I really wish you would pay attention to the basic physics definitions. You will find physics much simpler to understand if you did. First off define force. Ie define a Newton of force.

 

Then define energy and mass as well as inertia.

 

If you do the above you will realize your posts makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I mentioned before that lasers can generate force. Lasers can move objects if strong enough. Yet light is not matter.

 

A gravitational wave is another example. Temperature or pressure can also generate force. None of these involve matter.

 

Matter is fermionic particles it does not include bosons. (I mentioned this before) yet bosons can and do generate force.

Gravity F~ can move and displace matter,,,energy cannot.

This is 100% wrong period. The very definition of energy should have told you that.

 

Just look at the unit for energy the Joule.

 

"the SI unit of work or energy, equal to the work done by a force of one newton when its point of application moves one meter in the direction of action of the force, equivalent to one 3600th of a watt-hour."

Edited May 1, 2017 by Mordred

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

pressure can also generate force. None of these involve matter.

 

 

.Pressure is not possible with out the presence of matter and much more ; impossible to read it

 

 

A gravitational wave is another example.

 

A gravitational wave contains Gravitons

To Swansont

 

How do photons slow atoms down if this is true?

 

If a PARTICLE is too small to be seen but evidence of it’s action is a fact from the reaction of the other bigger particle, than logic should not be influenced by the size of its opponent._

I think logic is a term that people are lacking in physics afraid to face evidence, when affected by it constantly throughout their life, G.f._

(forgive for saying)

Edited May 1, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[Mordred]

Roger stop. Try to at least learn basic physics before making foolish assertions.

 

Pressure is force/unit volume.

 

There is a very simple relation ie equation of state for matter and radiation ie photons.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equation_of_state_(cosmology)

 

Please pick up a textbook on physics. As it is my grandaughter who is only 11 has a better understanding that what I've seen posted by you on this thread. Not trying to be offensive but you really need to study.

 

Start by learning the definitions

 

For example why does 1 joule equal 1 Newton?

Edited May 1, 2017 by Mordred

[Silvestru]

I think logic is a term that people are lacking in physics afraid to face evidence, when affected by it constantly throughout their life, G.f._

 

I think physicists love to face evidence, especially if they believe in their findings. A discovery is useless if not put to the test and if other physicists are trying to disprove your research they end up validating it if it is correct.

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

No it must simply contain energy.

 

The definition of energy is the ability to perform work. (energy is a property not a thing unto itself). The ability to perform work can generate force.

 

Matter is fermionic particles not bosons such as light. Yet light can generate force.

 

all these can generate force sufficient to induce kinematic action.

 

 

[latex]\stackrel{Action}{\overbrace{\mathcal{L}}} \sim \stackrel{relativity}{\overbrace{\mathbb{R}}}- \stackrel{Maxwell}{\overbrace{1/4F_{\mu\nu}F^{\mu\nu}}}+\stackrel{Dirac}{\overbrace{i \overline{\psi}\gamma_\mu\psi}}+\stackrel{Higg's}{\overbrace{\mid D_\mu h\mid-V\mid h\mid}} +\stackrel{Yugawa-coupling}{\overbrace{h\overline{\psi}\psi}}[/latex]

 

Notice we include the electromagnetic,strong, Higgs, relativity and particle/antiparticle pairs via Dirac.

 

That is true ! ~ ; only with the help of matter. A test ,to know how to calculate the amount of Energy from a explosion or any form needed to be performed with the presence of matter ,,,let say a round metal, container (ball) as an example , filled up with a certain gas; or any other forms of energy known today performed with it's need accordingly. Than a charter of value can be developed for each tip of energy ... so!~ I think, that demonstrated the need of ''matter in the equation''~ and prove that matter is necessary for a force to be generated from the energy contained . ( What is ""Atomic energy (bomb) without a shell surrounding it )?

Gravity F~ can move and displace matter,,,energy cannot.

Gravity F~ can move and displace matter,,,energy cannot. I will add,, that ~ energy ''can'~'with ''matter'' in its pat. So!~ matter need to be in the equation .

Edited May 3, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[Mordred]

So how did gravity work before there were atoms ? or fermionic matter? Not all the history of our universe was matter available.

 

Or better yet this lab experiment that uses lasers to generate a gravitational field?

 

http://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1367-2630/18/2/023009

 

Same article but published at arxiv for those that prefer arxiv.

 

https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://arxiv.org/pdf/1511.01023&ved=0ahUKEwi8-Lyz4dTTAhXpv1QKHYwOBbAQFggcMAA&usg=AFQjCNFV4HS0tqUmytAUIleAh6o9Sm_2vg&sig2=lnR3ot4f5VwB0k7zBMpXkg

 

 

Here is the more popularly known Tolman tests on lasers generating gravity.

 

https://redirect.viglink.com/?format=go&jsonp=vglnk_149385056757712&key=6afc78eea2339e9c047ab6748b0d37e7&libId=j29k06cn010009we000MAjvoizlu8&loc=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.physicsforums.com%2Fthreads%2Feffect-of-photon-gravity-on-another-photon-traveling-in-the-opposite-d.764878%2F&v=1&out=http%3A%2F%2Fauthors.library.caltech.edu%2F1544%2F1%2FTOLpr31a.pdf&ref=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.ca%2F&title=Effect%20of%20photon%20gravity%20on%20another%20photon%20traveling%20in%20the%20opposite%20d%20%7C%20Physics%20Forums%20-%20The%20Fusion%20of%20Science%20and%20Community&txt=http%3A%2F%2Fauthors.library.caltech.edu%2F1544%2F1%2FTOLpr31a.pdf

 

By the way that was done back in 1931...

 

Why we even have laser driven sails. How is that possible if only matter can generate force?

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_propulsion

 

I call that sufficient proof your wrong. Better study Roger

Edited May 3, 2017 by Mordred

[swansont]

 

How do photons slow atoms down if this is true?

 

If a PARTICLE is too small to be seen but evidence of it’s action is a fact from the reaction of the other bigger particle, than logic should not be influenced by the size of its opponent._

I think logic is a term that people are lacking in physics afraid to face evidence, when affected by it constantly throughout their life, G.f._

(forgive for saying)

 

How about addressing the question?

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

Roger I really wish you would pay attention to the basic physics definitions. You will find physics much simpler to understand if you did. First off define force. Ie define a Newton of force.

 

Then define energy and mass as well as inertia.

 

If you do the above you will realize your posts makes no sense whatsoever.

 

I mentioned before that lasers can generate force. Lasers can move objects if strong enough. Yet light is not matter.

 

A gravitational wave is another example. Temperature or pressure can also generate force. None of these involve matter.

 

Matter is fermionic particles it does not include bosons. (I mentioned this before) yet bosons can and do generate force.

This is 100% wrong period. The very definition of energy should have told you that.

 

Just look at the unit for energy the Joule.

 

"the SI unit of work or energy, equal to the work done by a force of one newton when its point of application moves one meter in the direction of action of the force, equivalent to one 3600th of a watt-hour."

 

I mentioned before that lasers can generate force. Lasers can move objects if strong enough. Yet light is not matter.

 

The energy or power Of laser beam = the force opposed to it's pat ; = Matter with out matter in its pat ,,/ no force can be detected or defined. For a force to exist an opposite force is needed. 3th law of motion

Edited May 6, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[swansont]

I mentioned before that lasers can generate force. Lasers can move objects if strong enough. Yet light is not matter.

 

The energy or power Of laser beam = the force opposed to it's pat ; = Matter with out matter in its pat ,,/ no force can be detected or defined. For a force to exist an opposite force is needed. 3th law of motion

You claimed that only matter can create a force. How do photons, which are not matter, exert a force?

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

Energy !~ is the property that must be transferred to an object in order to perform work on the object, The SI unit of energy is the joule, which is the energy transferred to an object by the mechanical work of moving matter a distance in time . So energy cannot be demonstrated , if there is no matter in is pat acting opposed to it's constituent , witch is acting as a opposite force and that force will tell the amount of energy being used ,depending of the tip of energy ?

So when I say that matter is necessary to demonstrate that energy is present to do work that statement is true or not .../

So energy in it self is not a force only a propriety .

Edited May 7, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion