Hijack from Universal 'Now'

[madmac]

[stringJunky #208] It can predict the time difference between two points 8 inches apart in altitude; cant argue with that.

 

I reckon it (STR) can predict a time difference for a 1 inch difference in altitude, or even 1/8". Perhaps your meaning was a prediction that could be tested, & that modern testing is limited to about 8" of altitude.

 

I am uneasy about the wording "the" time difference. In STR there is no time, thusly there can be no "the" time difference. It might be better to say "a" time difference -- even here i prefer "a ticking difference" (to steer clear of using the word "time").

 

And "it" is not alone, some aether theories too can make a good prediction re altitude & ticking etc.

Aether theories have both ticking & real (absolute universal) time. However, despite that, i doubt that they can help re questions re T₀ at a BigBang, as i doubt that any aether theory (that i have ever heard of) supports a BigBang (i might be wrong, i will check).

 

I suppose that T₀ & the BigBang depends. Why cant u have a BigBang happening in an existing old universe ??, in which case u don't have or need a T_0.

 

Wouldn't it be funny if the Sun & Earth were on an outer edge of the standard BigBang universe. We would see blackness in one direction, & lots of stuff in the other direction, & very little stuff when looking left or right. And we would have a T₀.

If the spin axis were so, then at the say South Pole we would see zero stars & galaxies, but the North Pole sky would be alive. Hmmm -- but we might see an occasional meteor in the southern sky (better than nothing).

Edited April 19, 2017 by madmac

[Strange]

I am uneasy about the wording "the" time difference. In STR there is no time, thusly there can be no "the" time difference.

Of course there is time in relativity. It is based on the concepts space-time.

Wouldn't it be funny if the Sun & Earth were on an outer edge of the standard BigBang universe. .

There is no outer edge in Big Bang models.

 

I guess you have to be this profoundly ignorant to believe your aether-religion.

[StringJunky]

 

 

[stringJunky #208] It can predict the time difference between two points 8 inches apart in altitude; cant argue with that.

 

I reckon it (STR) can predict a time difference for a 1 inch difference in altitude, or even 1/8". Perhaps your meaning was a prediction that could be tested, & that modern testing is limited to about 8" of altitude.

 

I am uneasy about the wording "the" time difference. In STR there is no time, thusly there can be no "the" time difference. It might be better to say "a" time difference -- even here i prefer "a ticking difference" (to steer clear of using the word "time").

 

 

Time is relative, as per STR, so it should have been apparent that I meant relative time difference from some arbitrary reference. There is, apparently, a test/experimental clock that can measure an inch (or a centimetre, can't remember which) difference but I was referring to a standard atomic clock that is in use in the GPS system. Swansont can clarify.because he designs and works with them.

 

Edit: Found it. It's a strontium clock that can measure 2cm difference of altitude:

 

 

"Our performance means that we can measure the gravitational shift when you raise the clock just 2 centimeters [0.79 inches] on the Earth's surface," study co-author Jun Ye, a physicist at JILA, a joint institute of the National Institute of Standards and Technology and the University of Colorado, Boulder, said in a statement. http://www.livescience.com/50545-most-precise-atomic-clock.html

Edited April 19, 2017 by StringJunky

[madmac]

[re Strange #222]

It doesn't have to be aether (religion) related -- one can have a relativity where time is constant & c aint without needing an aether.

But i don't know whether such a (constant time) theory can predict-explain faster ticking at higher altitude (it needs an aether).

 

Re space-time. Yes, ok, i can understand a time in GTR. But in that case i have difficulty in understanding why STR is allergic to simultaneity. Anyhow that is another subject.

 

Re no outer edge in a BB universe, i will have to read up on that.

 

[re StringJunky # 223]

Yes i was thinking of Al+ clocks which have detected i think 33cm. Strontium clocks detecting (or capable of detecting) 2cm is mind blowing.

But, i would love to see how it all works in the southern hemisphere (my aether theory says ticking slows with higher altitude down here)(if it don't then my aether theory is a dead duck)(this would be a simple experiment, & not needing the latest clocks).

Edited April 20, 2017 by madmac

[madmac]

I see one problem that affects the ticking rate of micro-processes, it is the Shnoll effect.

Or putting it another way, we don't know what the effect is, but Shnoll has measured it & has given it a name.

Except that we do know a little about it, Reg Cahill has shown that it is some type of turbulence in the aether, & calls it gravitational waves (that travel at 500 km/sec).

I reckon that it is due to the reverberation of gravity.

There are at least 3 kinds of effect (according to Shnoll)(or at least 3 sources) -- the Sun -- The Milky Way -- & other galaxies (i am not sure whether Shnoll said this or i said this).

 

Anyhow it means that one cannot have much accuracy of anything.

In the case of 2 Strontium clocks (in the same lab), they might appear to be ok at a macro level (eg averaging their ticking over a second or more), but will be seen to vary at a micro level (eg comparing ticking instant by instant).

The NIST had this problem with their Al+ clocks -- they took averages over a long time (eg one minute)(cant remember).

If u keep a close eye at the micro level u will see that the changes on one clock always lag the other -- ie it is not random -- the Adelaide clock always cops the change before the London clock.

In the lab the Strontium clocks will show the effect passing through (south to north), in as little as 1 cm.

500 km/sec is 50,000,000 cm/sec, hencely they would detect the direction of the passing of the effect at much closer spacings even.

 

With a little juggling, they could measure the exact direction (in 3D) & speed of the changes.

If the perturbations travel at the same speed as the aether-wind (i think yes), then here they have perhaps the best version of an MMX.

 

But they wont admit of an aether, or a Shnoll effect, they will just keep taking long averages.

And think of all of the troubles experienced with lasers -- noise, balance, walkoff, wander, variance (whatever). Damned lasers.

Edited April 21, 2017 by madmac

[tar]

madmac,

t

given a particular tick, a particular transition, there would always be a lag in terms of counting the tick

 

a closer counter would count the tick, before a counter stationed further from the actual tick

 

it seems the definition of simultaneous to the initial tick, has to be carefully defined.

 

Might be philosophical in nature, but there is a lag between when your eye's lens receives an electromagnetic wave and when the same wave arrives at the back of the eye.

 

If one is to consider there is a time which is the same time, for me, over here, and you over there, regardless of the lag between, then a universal now is posited.

 

Regards, TAR

perhaps this is why the equations of SR and GR and the probabilities of quantum mechanics don't all jive

 

There is a switch of when and where is considered now and here. As T1 does not mean an identical thing to a quark over here and one over there. To say nothing of what here and now means on a planet circling a nearby star, or on a planet existing in a far away galaxy where here and now we see a quasar in that spot.

[tar]

madmac,

 

If there were an effect moving through the ether in some manner, you would have a hard time separating the effect on the measuring equipment from the effect on the tested system. Wouldn't you?

 

If the bar shrinks at the same time as the ruler, you wind up measuring no change.

 

Regards, TAR

[madmac]

[tar #226 #227] Sorry i must have missed your postings.

Yes i aint a scientist, but i guess that Einsteinians & aetherists agree that if the Earth etc contracts & distorts to an ellipsoid then so does an Earthling's eyeball, & everything looks just the same.

 

I have never done a proper electronic experiment, but i suppose that if u had 2 identical instruments a certain distance apart in the lab, looking for an aetheric signal or something passing throo, then u would need to take account of the length of the wiring etc inside each instrument (tween sensor & recorder anyhow), & add it to the certain distance apart, especially if the signal travelled at c (albeit slowed a little by air). Hmmm -- no, i take that back -- u wouldn't have to add length of wiring -- the delay in instrument 1 is cancelled by the identical delay in instrument 2. But a single lonesome instrument would need allowance.

 

If Cahill's gravitational waves (whatever) travelled at 500 km/sec this is c/600. His distance apart was i think 33cm. He didn't make any allowances for length of wiring -- as i said above, u wouldn't have to (if the 2 instruments were identical & facing the same way).

Edited May 1, 2017 by madmac

[swansont]

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Moderator Note

Discussion of aether is off-topic in mainstream physics discussions.