Trump Effects

[Butch]

5 hours ago, swansont said:

But he did. 2 million votes down in 2012 vs 2008. (Some of the contribution to lost seats was gerrymandering and some was voter suppression, so there's not going to be a perfect correlation)

He also showed himself to be a groomed politician. Americans have had enough of that... on both sides of the fence.

[Ten oz]

5 minutes ago, Butch said:

He also showed himself to be a groomed politician. Americans have had enough of that... on both sides of the fence.

Yeah, who needs people that are actually subject matter experts and good at their job....

[Raider5678]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Yeah, who needs people that are actually subject matter experts and good at their job....

I know right.

 

I feel like most of them though associate politicians with curruption.

[Phi for All]

20 hours ago, Butch said:

He also showed himself to be a groomed politician. Americans have had enough of that... on both sides of the fence.

This is the rhetoric pushed by billionaires who don't need the government the way most of us do. Isn't it pretty obvious that the billionaires in politics today are only interested in removing restrictions on themselves, and limiting the money spent on the rest of us? These folks have been hammering this message of "bad government" and "sleazy politicians" for decades, while actively being the representatives with the sleaziest behavior, doing everything they can to make the government bad.

They don't care if you have access to libraries, museums, parks, swimming pools, or healthcare. They have all those things taken care of due to their massive wealth, and object to taxes that make these things available to the rest of us. They've chosen to ignore our efforts that brought them great wealth, and instead spend money convincing folks that government needs to be dismantled for OUR good.

And now they have this blatant racist sexual assaulter-in-chief who is morally and economically corrupt, and happens to have a deluded following all chanting about bringing down the Fed. Working class folks who think this billionaire has their backs while he whittles away at the very thing that has the best chance of making all their lives a lot better. The wolves have tricked the sheep into removing restrictive fences, and the sheep are all praising the freedom.

[Butch]

20 hours ago, Phi for All said:

This is the rhetoric pushed by billionaires who don't need the government the way most of us do. Isn't it pretty obvious that the billionaires in politics today are only interested in removing restrictions on themselves, and limiting the money spent on the rest of us? These folks have been hammering this message of "bad government" and "sleazy politicians" for decades, while actively being the representatives with the sleaziest behavior, doing everything they can to make the government bad.

They don't care if you have access to libraries, museums, parks, swimming pools, or healthcare. They have all those things taken care of due to their massive wealth, and object to taxes that make these things available to the rest of us. They've chosen to ignore our efforts that brought them great wealth, and instead spend money convincing folks that government needs to be dismantled for OUR good.

And now they have this blatant racist sexual assaulter-in-chief who is morally and economically corrupt, and happens to have a deluded following all chanting about bringing down the Fed. Working class folks who think this billionaire has their backs while he whittles away at the very thing that has the best chance of making all their lives a lot better. The wolves have tricked the sheep into removing restrictive fences, and the sheep are all praising the freedom.

Difference is Trump doesn't give a damn about projecting a false image, either way... If you take a statement that seems a bit racist and go hyperbolic, he will "normalize" but will not back off on his statement. He knows not himself or anyone else is snow white, his kind of honesty is rare. Pro-Trumps often glorify him and anti-Trumps villanise him, truth is he is human and has no problem being in his skin.

[dimreepr]

2 minutes ago, Butch said:

Difference is Trump doesn't give a damn about projecting a false image, either way... If you take a statement that seems a bit racist and go hyperbolic, he will "normalize" but will not back off on his statement. He knows not himself or anyone else is snow white, his kind of honesty is rare. Pro-Trumps often glorify him and anti-Trumps villanise him, truth is he is human and has no problem being in his skin.

3

He's an enigma all right, projecting an image by day and denying it via twitter by night, he's a vampire; sucking the lifeblood of America.

[Butch]

34 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

He's an enigma all right, projecting an image by day and denying it via twitter by night, he's a vampire; sucking the lifeblood of America.

I say he is a vampire slayer, ask anyone on Capitol Hill.

[dimreepr]

 

He doesn't really look like a teenage girl, ask anyone on capitol hill? 

[Butch]

25 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

 

He doesn't really look like a teenage girl, ask anyone on capitol hill? 

He tweets like one!

Ask anyone in the FBI!

Edited December 24, 2017 by Butch
Spelling

[iNow]

33 minutes ago, Butch said:

I say he is a vampire slayer, ask anyone on Capitol Hill.

Like so many other things from this administration, the messaging on this unfortunately does not match the reality. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/meet-the-new-swamp/540540/

Quote

Corey Lewandowski, who worked as Trump’s campaign manager, moved to Washington, D.C., and started a Beltway lobbying firm, where he accepted lots of money from special interests

(...)

Jim Murphy, Trump’s former political director, joined the lobbying giant BakerHostetler, while another firm, Fidelis Government Relations, struck up a partnership with Bill Smith, Mike Pence’s former chief of staff. All told, close to 20 ex-aides of Trump, friends, and hangers-on had made their way into Washington’s influence business.”

(...)

the administration has not been shy about hiring individuals who were once registered as lobbyists with the federal government. Data provided to The Washington Post by the liberal PAC American Bridge details the extent to which former lobbyists have made their way into the administration. Twenty work for the executive office of the president itself, including four ‘super-lobbyists’—ones who represented at least 10 different companies or organizations before coming to work for the government. What’s more, of the 74 lobbyists identified … 49 now work for agencies they used to lobby.”

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/19/trump-drain-swamp-promises-243924

Quote

many Washington lobbyists say business is better than ever. Spending on lobbying in Washington totaled almost $1.7 billion in the first half of the year, the highest since 2012, according to the Center for Responsive Politics.

“I don’t think that anything’s really changed,” said Brian Wild, a longtime Republican lobbyist and a former aide to House Speaker John Boehner. “If anything, the lobbying business is booming right now.”

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/15/investing/goldman-sachs-jim-donovan-trump-treasury-deputy-secretary/index.html

Quote

Trump's latest Goldman hire is Jim Donovan, a two-decade veteran of the Wall Street bank, who was nominated to the No. 2 position at the Treasury Department (...) another Goldman man: Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin, who made a fortune during his nearly two decades at the bank. 

This week, Trump also reassigned former Goldman Sachs partner Dina Powell to the more prominent role of deputy national security adviser for strategy (...) Jay Clayton, a high-powered lawyer who represented Goldman Sachs, to be the next leader of the SEC (...) 

Trump's decision to surround himself with Goldman veterans is surprising given his populist talk on the campaign trail. Trump told voters that Wall Street would no longer "get away with murder" after the industry caused "tremendous problems." He also knocked Clinton's paid speeches to Wall Street banks, including Goldman Sachs. 

"This guy is a fraud...It is hard not to laugh to see President Trump alongside these Wall Street guys," (...)

"By handing over our economy to Goldman Sachs, Trump continues to betray working class Americans."

 

[Butch]

54 minutes ago, iNow said:

Like so many other things from this administration, the messaging on this unfortunately does not match the reality. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/meet-the-new-swamp/540540/

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/19/trump-drain-swamp-promises-243924

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/15/investing/goldman-sachs-jim-donovan-trump-treasury-deputy-secretary/index.html

 

You are from the corn belt... and still anti-Trump? You must be a student! Do you think globalism, the U.N. and the Paris Accord favor American interests?

[Ten oz]

2 hours ago, Butch said:

Difference is Trump doesn't give a damn about projecting a false image, either way...

Trump or one of his companies were plaintiffs in 1,900 lawsuit many of which were for defamation. Many of his defamation suits just be B.S. like the suit against former Trump University student Tarla Makaeff, after she joined the class action lawsuit and publicized her classroom experiences on social media. Trump University was later ordered by a U.S. District Judge in April 2015 to pay Makaeff and her lawyers $798,774.24 in legal fees and costs. Trump is also a notorious user of non-disclosure agreements. A tool he uses to throttle friends, family, and employees ability to speak about him openly and honestly. As President he regularly attacks the media and only gives interview to friendly pundits. It is pretty obvious that Trump DOES give a damn about the false narratives and image being projected. 

24 minutes ago, Butch said:

You are from the corn belt... and still anti-Trump? You must be a student! Do you think globalism, the U.N. and the Paris Accord favor American interests?

 iNow took that time to provide you a response which included information to support the claim of contradiction. Lets you can do is be respectful enough to address the merits. Vague snarky questions about board issues which weren't referenced are not useful. 

[rangerx]

1 hour ago, Butch said:

You are from the corn belt... and still anti-Trump? You must be a student! Do you think globalism, the U.N. and the Paris Accord favor American interests?

No worries. Coal mining will make America great again. Science and technology is for the rest of the world to suffer.

[iNow]

2 hours ago, Butch said:

You are from the corn belt... and still anti-Trump?

I’m not so much anti-Trump as I am anti-bullshit

2 hours ago, Butch said:

You must be a student!

You’re only off by a few decades

[Ten oz]

42 minutes ago, iNow said:

 

You’re only off by a few decades

As if there is something wrong with studying. We should all strive to be life long students. 

[Butch]

4 hours ago, iNow said:

Like so many other things from this administration, the messaging on this unfortunately does not match the reality. 

https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2017/09/meet-the-new-swamp/540540/

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/10/19/trump-drain-swamp-promises-243924

http://money.cnn.com/2017/03/15/investing/goldman-sachs-jim-donovan-trump-treasury-deputy-secretary/index.html

 

You are from the corn belt... and still anti-Trump? You must be a student! Do you think globalism, the U.N. and the Paris Accord favor American interests?

I think I will give him the four years, and see how he does... Not much else to say beyond that.

[iNow]

I see you’re still not addressing anything I actually posted nor acknowledging how it rebuts your point. Unsurprised. 

31 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

As if there is something wrong with studying. We should all strive to be life long students. 

Agreed. It also strikes me as somewhat funny how it implies only the uneducated support Trump.

[Raider5678]

24 minutes ago, iNow said:

Agreed. It also strikes me as somewhat funny how it implies only the uneducated support Trump.

1

Very few educated people support Trump.

However, there are still a large number of educated people who support the Republican Party.

[Ten oz]

1 hour ago, Raider5678 said:

Very few educated people support Trump.

However, there are still a large number of educated people who support the Republican Party.

Republicans attempt to thread the thinnest of needles. From Roy Moore to Todd Akin Republican ranks are filled with divisive politicians who ignore reason and appeal to tribalism yet the party apologists continue to argue that those individuals represent themselves and at the heart of the party is some greater conservative idea. Bush was a traitor to it, Palin never represented it, and Trump is just a apparition yet over and over the trend continues. In 2024, which will either be the year Trump terms out or the first election post a 2020 Trump revolt, Republicans will undoubtedly be arguing that Trump was never really one of them. 

[Raider5678]

1 hour ago, Ten oz said:

Republicans attempt to thread the thinnest of needles. From Roy Moore to Todd Akin Republican ranks are filled with divisive politicians who ignore reason and appeal to tribalism yet the party apologists continue to argue that those individuals represent themselves and at the heart of the party is some greater conservative idea. Bush was a traitor to it, Palin never represented it, and Trump is just a apparition yet over and over the trend continues. In 2024, which will either be the year Trump terms out or the first election post a 2020 Trump revolt, Republicans will undoubtedly be arguing that Trump was never really one of them. 

A revolt?

Dude. It's gonna take a whole lot more than Trump to cause an open revolt.

 

Unless I took that wrong and you meant in a different way.

[iNow]

I read it to mean: Huge losses to GOP in the 2020 election, an electoral revolt, as it were. 

[iNow]

Lifelong republicans getting fed up with being associated with such idiocy and switching parties. 

[Phi for All]

10 hours ago, Butch said:

Difference is Trump doesn't give a damn about projecting a false image, either way... If you take a statement that seems a bit racist and go hyperbolic, he will "normalize" but will not back off on his statement. He knows not himself or anyone else is snow white, his kind of honesty is rare. Pro-Trumps often glorify him and anti-Trumps villanise him, truth is he is human and has no problem being in his skin.

This is NOT a "difference is" reply to what I wrote. This is a complete blowoff of what I wrote. This ignores what I wrote completely, and then uses an intellectually dishonest comparison to what I wrote by claiming Trump is different. You don't even bother to give a decent difference; it's subjective and so heavily biased ("his kind of honesty is rare"?! Bwahaha!) that it's meaningless.

8 hours ago, Butch said:

You are from the corn belt... and still anti-Trump? You must be a student! Do you think globalism, the U.N. and the Paris Accord favor American interests?

You make the discussion more difficult by introducing different points before addressing what's already been put to you. Some call that tap-dancing, others call it preaching (because it doesn't seem like you're listening to anyone else but yourself), but it just comes off rude. If you can't answer the extreme wealth argument, you should just say so instead of trying to change the subject.

[Ten oz]

9 hours ago, iNow said:

I read it to mean: Huge losses to GOP in the 2020 election, an electoral revolt, as it were. 

Correct, In 2020 Trump will still be the GOP's candidate win or lose which make 2024 the first national election where the GOP will be able to pretend Trump was never really their guy. Same game they played with Bush. Post 9/11 and through the 2004 election many argued that it was unpatriotic to criticize Bush at all because he was a wartime President and things like 9/11 and Katrina were simple beyond anything any President could have been prepared for. Come 06' and 07' the rats started jumping ship and claiming they never really supported Bush and that Bush was never authentically Republican. 

[Butch]

On 12/24/2017 at 3:21 PM, Ten oz said:

As if there is something wrong with studying. We should all strive to be life long students. 

Agreed.

On 12/25/2017 at 4:59 AM, Ten oz said:

Correct, In 2020 Trump will still be the GOP's candidate win or lose which make 2024 the first national election where the GOP will be able to pretend Trump was never really their guy. Same game they played with Bush. Post 9/11 and through the 2004 election many argued that it was unpatriotic to criticize Bush at all because he was a wartime President and things like 9/11 and Katrina were simple beyond anything any President could have been prepared for. Come 06' and 07' the rats started jumping ship and claiming they never really supported Bush and that Bush was never authentically Republican. 

I have not supported a president since Reagan... The government is out of control, the people have had enough and if Trump can't or won't get the job done we will find someone else who is a nationalist statesman in 2020.