Work and energy (split from what is energy)

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

How do you define exactly what energy is? Is it merely a wave resonating in a vacuum at it's simplest form?

 

How many types of energy is there that we know of?

Energy !~ is the property that must be transferred to an object in order to perform work on the object, The SI unit of energy is the joule, which is the energy transferred to an object by the mechanical work of moving matter a distance in time . So energy cannot be demonstrated , if there is no matter in is pat acting opposed to it's constituent , witch is acting as a opposite force and that force will tell the amount of energy being used ,depending of the tip of energy ?

So when I say that matter is necessary to demonstrate that energy is present to do work that statement is true or not .../

So energy in it self is not a force only a propriety .

Edited May 7, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[studiot]

 

Energy !~ is the property that must be transferred to an object in order to perform work on the object, The SI unit of energy is the joule, which is the energy transferred to an object by the mechanical work of moving matter a distance in time . So energy cannot be demonstrated , if there is no matter in is pat acting opposed to it's constituent , witch is acting as a opposite force and that force will tell the amount of energy being used ,depending of the tip of energy ?

So when I say that matter is necessary to demonstrate that energy is present to do work that statement is true or not .../

So energy in it self is not a force only a propriety .

 

 

Roger, your posts are getting better. I am regrading them from wildly inaccurate to incomplete and a bit confused. Keep the progress up.

 

Two questions for you to think about.

 

Why do you think that, since it was first stated, the First Law of Thermodynamics makes a distinction between work and heat transfer, if all energy involves work?

 

You say that energy is transferred to do work. In what form was energy before it was transferred?

Edited May 7, 2017 by studiot

[Mordred]

 

Why do you think that, since it was first stated, the First Law of Thermodynamics makes a distinction between work and heat transfer, if all energy involves work?

 

You say that energy is transferred to do work. In what form was energy before it was transferred?

Excellent questions

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

Excellent questions

 

 

Roger, your posts are getting better. I am regrading them from wildly inaccurate to incomplete and a bit confused. Keep the progress up.

 

Two questions for you to think about.

 

Why do you think that, since it was first stated, the First Law of Thermodynamics makes a distinction between work and heat transfer, if all energy involves work?

_____________

Heat, is the energy applied to the systeme.

Work is done to the systeme.

 

 

You say that energy is transferred to do work. In what form was energy before it was transferred?

_____________

The form of energy is not important; it will be transferred to do work.

Edited May 7, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion

[studiot]

 

Roger, your posts are getting better. I am regrading them from wildly inaccurate to incomplete and a bit confused. Keep the progress up.

 

Two questions for you to think about.

 

Why do you think that, since it was first stated, the First Law of Thermodynamics makes a distinction between work and heat transfer, if all energy involves work?

_____________

Heat, is the energy applied to the systeme.

Work is done to the systeme.

 

 

You say that energy is transferred to do work. In what form was energy before it was transferred?

_____________

The form of energy is not important; it will be transferred to do work.

 

Thank you for thinking about my questions, but please reply ouside the quote as it makes copnversation easier and more manageable that way.

 

I'll take your second answer first.

 

No I did not say work was done, you did and I quoted where you said it in my post #8

 

 

Roger

Energy !~ is the property that must be transferred to an object in order to perform work on the object, The SI unit of energy is the joule, which is the energy transferred to an object by the mechanical work of moving matter a distance in time .

 

So I asked you about it. What you say is not wrong it is just not complete, because there is a difference between heat and work.

 

That was why I asked the first question because there are other aspects to energy besides work and heat is one of them.

 

For example energy in the form of heat is added or removed to cause a phase change, but no work is done. This is called the latent heat.

 

Even in the purely mechanical world there is a theorem:

 

"No work is done when a system of forces in equilibrium move their point of application."

 

This is known as the first theorem of Virtual Work and is much used in certain forms of mechanics and as a test for equilibrium.

Edited May 7, 2017 by studiot

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

 

Thank you for thinking about my questions, but please reply ouside the quote as it makes copnversation easier and more manageable that way.

 

I'll take your second answer first.

 

No I did not say work was done, you did and I quoted where you said it in my post #8

 

 

So I asked you about it. What you say is not wrong it is just not complete, because there is a difference between heat and work.

 

That was why I asked the first question because there are other aspects to energy besides work and heat is one of them.

 

For example energy in the form of heat is added or removed to cause a phase change, but no work is done. This is called the latent heat.

 

Even in the purely mechanical world there is a theorem:

 

"No work is done when a system of forces in equilibrium move their point of application."

 

This is known as the first theorem of Virtual Work and is much used in certain forms of mechanics and as a test for equilibrium.

Studiot,,,

 

Thanks for the clarification

[swansont]

 

Energy !~ is the property that must be transferred to an object in order to perform work on the object, The SI unit of energy is the joule, which is the energy transferred to an object by the mechanical work of moving matter a distance in time . So energy cannot be demonstrated , if there is no matter in is pat acting opposed to it's constituent , witch is acting as a opposite force and that force will tell the amount of energy being used ,depending of the tip of energy ?

So when I say that matter is necessary to demonstrate that energy is present to do work that statement is true or not .../

So energy in it self is not a force only a propriety .

 

 

 

 

!

Moderator Note

 

Split from http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/105494-what-is-energy/

 

That was not your thread, so you should not be re-directing the discussion. Your contention about matter being involved is being discussed in another thread. Keep it there.

 

I've split this so the issue of work and energy may be discussed. Confine the discussion to that subject.

 

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

ok Thanks

[KipIngram]

I see a couple of ways to go on this. One common definition of "work" is "mechanical work"; the application of a force through a distance, or a torque through an angle. So with that definition energy is a much broader concept, since it can have many forms other than mechanical.

 

Loosening the terminology a bit, I could also see using the word "work" for energy transfers that are "organized," in the sense that the result can be further manipulated and applied to various purposes. Energy can also have a disorganized form, like the random thermal motion of molecules in some material. That energy is still there, but unless you have a reservoir of lower temperature so that you can create a thermodynamic cycle you can't get it back into a useful form.

[Roger Dynamic Motion]

I see a couple of ways to go on this. One common definition of "work" is "mechanical work"; the application of a force through a distance, or a torque through an angle. So with that definition energy is a much broader concept, since it can have many forms other than mechanical.

 

Loosening the terminology a bit, I could also see using the word "work" for energy transfers that are "organized," in the sense that the result can be further manipulated and applied to various purposes. Energy can also have a disorganized form, like the random thermal motion of molecules in some material. That energy is still there, but unless you have a reservoir of lower temperature so that you can create a thermodynamic cycle you can't get it back into a useful form.

 

Who would thing of a perpetual motion machine build from scratch with the use of Energy Impossible .

Energy cannot be renewed from energy ,,only from a force and that force as i know it is the natural G F. plus a physical force .= Macanical operatus..

Edited May 13, 2017 by Roger Dynamic Motion