Liberals vs. Conservatives

[bascule]

...can they not be defined as embracers of novelty versus embracers of the status quo? And with evolution traditionally favoring useful novelty, will humanity not continue to evolve to be more liberal?

[Pangloss]

No, I don't buy the premise. Searching for novelty or inquisitiveness does not equate to evolution, and I know too many liberals who are far too set in their "I'm not set in my ways" ways (like free speech advocates who demonstrate the most virtriolic hatred for free speech one can imagine). Ideologies are about closing minds, not opening them. Doesn't matter what they consist of.

 

You're welcome to back it up, though.

[atinymonkey]

I think that is a faliure of the US Liberal party, rather than the liberal principles.

[Skye]

...can they not be defined as embracers of novelty versus embracers of the status quo? And with evolution traditionally favoring useful novelty, will humanity not continue to evolve to be more liberal?

A liberal ideology isn't necessarily progressive or radical, and they pretty much can't be radical in a liberal country.

 

I think this why people find liberals and conservatives to be much the same, i.e. a conservative in a liberal country will be liberal, and a liberal in a liberal country will be conservative.

[mmalluck]

"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea." - Robert Anton Wilson

 

I think that about says it. Given enough time liberal ideology is accepted into society and becomes the conservative viewpoint. If people sat down and actually thought about this, then there would be no issue with the whole liberal vs. conservative deal.

 

/example/

Are the magority of conservatives still fighting to reinstate slavery? (I say majority because there's always some wack-jobs out there that will.)

 

What about to keep a women in the home and take away thier right to vote?

 

These were conservative viewpoints at one point in time, but no longer are. The liberal views at that time are now part of the conservative views of today.

 

Ta da!~

[-Demosthenes-]

"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea." - Robert Anton Wilson

I'd have to agree, it is very apparent in history. It's one big cycle.

[john5746]

"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea." - Robert Anton Wilson

 

I think that about says it. Given enough time liberal ideology is accepted into society and becomes the conservative viewpoint. If people sat down and actually thought about this' date=' then there would be no issue with the whole liberal vs. conservative deal.

 

/example/

Are the magority of conservatives still fighting to reinstate slavery? (I say majority because there's always some wack-jobs out there that will.)

 

What about to keep a women in the home and take away thier right to vote?

 

These were conservative viewpoints at one point in time, but no longer are. The liberal views at that time are now part of the conservative views of today.

 

Ta da!~[/quote']

 

You also have LSD and communism from the left that no longer seem to be supported. I think its more like a filter, ideas are filtered out, some make it and some don't.

[ecoli]

You also have LSD and communism from the left that no longer seem to be supported. I think its more like a filter, ideas are filtered out, some make it and some don't.

 

What determines which ideas make it though? I think that's the big issue.

[Douglas]

"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea." - Robert Anton Wilson

Is it possible that he meant that people tend to become more conservative as they grow older? See the light, so to speak.

[Douglas]

will humanity not continue to evolve to be more liberal?

Probably, we've become more liberal over the last 50 years, what's to stop us from becoming even more liberal.....like instant cloning, instead of wasting 9 months having a baby.

[In My Memory]

"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea." - Robert Anton Wilson

Is it possible that he meant that people tend to become more conservative as they grow older? See the light, so to speak.

I'm at a loss - how could he mean that when he says no ideas have been changed?

[Phi for All]

Is it possible that he meant that people tend to become more conservative as they grow older? See the light, so to speak.

I think it means that people see injustice in an imperfect system when they are younger, then learn to work within that system as they age. Eventually they either realize no system is perfect or they find ways to work to change it.

[Douglas]

I'm at a loss - how could he mean that when he says no ideas have been changed?

That's the point, and that's why I interpreted it that way, which was my second interpretation of what I thought was an ambiguous statement

[Douglas]

I think it means that people see injustice in an imperfect system when they are younger, then learn to work within that system as they age. Eventually they either realize no system is perfect or they find ways to work to change it.

Yeah Phi, you might be right. I see the statement as somewhat ambiguous, my 1st interpretation was...that we're getting more liberal each day, perhaps without even knowing it, so as time passes, and things change, we find that what was lberal 20 years ago, is conservative today.

[john5746]

The radical of one century is the conservative of the next. The radical invents the views. When he has worn them out the conservative adopts them.

Mark Twain (1835 - 1910), Notebook, 1935

 

I never dared to be radical when young

For fear it would make me conservative when old.

Robert Frost (1874 - 1963), 'Ten Mills,' A Further Range, 1936

 

I think these convey the same essential meaning.

[Pangloss]

One could also make a similar point about liberalism, and in particular the "classic liberalism" you often here talked about. But even more recently, with things that were started by liberalism but moved into the common set of accepted valued. Things like casual littering, for example, or racial sensitivity.

[bascule]

"It only takes 20 years for a liberal to become a conservative without changing a single idea." - Robert Anton Wilson

 

What changes is the brain. As neurons grow increasingly less able to transform and rearrange with the passage of time, the desire for novelty is lost and the desire for the static and routine increases, and thus brash liberal youths grow into cantankerous old conservative men.