Need Help Re: Minerals In Water.

[TheOrganicWarriors]

Hi everyone,

 

I need help understanding minerals in water and how absorption in the body works form any generous person / people willing to help.

 

A little background on why I need this:

 

I have a little website on which I wrote an article. I got a comment on the article which goes beyond my scope of understanding about the biochemical interactions in the body. I have put the link to the article below. I would like to emphasise that I have NOT done this for promotional purposes and ask for clemency from the site moderators. It is quiet a long article so I apologise in advance but I really need the help so I can respond effectively.

 

The article: http://theorganicwarriors.com/what-is-the-importance-of-clean-water

 

The comment I received and have yet to respond to:

 

"A very interesting post but I have a question. What are electrolytes, inorganic or organic? In hospitals we are often given an electrolyte drip to compensate for electrolyte imbalances.

I thought all our electrolytes ie. magnesium, sodium, potassium, calcium and chlorine were inorganic. They may be administered as an organic molecule such as magnesium glycinate which is common in hospitals. But in their ionic form, which is the only way a mineral can be used in the cells, the ion is inorganic. It is no wonder that their is a lot of confusion about this subject.
As for distilled water, it is lacking in all electrolytes so all you've got is hydrogen and oxygen, nothing else. I cannot think it would be of any benefit to drink it.
Many of the toxic soft drinks consumed today are made with distilled water and much research has proven that these drinks cause huge amounts of vital minerals such as magnesium and calcium along with trace minerals to be lost in the urine. Ches

I'm not sure if I can put my email in this forum? If not, please let me know and I will remove it. But if anyone would be so kind as to help out and would prefer to correspond via email it is: phil@theorganicwarriors.com

I have attempted to contact the chemistry department at a local university where I live in Perth, Australia but have not recieved a response.

Many thanks in advance,

Phil.

[Strange]

Firstly, I'm afraid you are going to get a lot of grief over the ignorant nonsense in your article. Hopefully, future articles you write will be better researched.

 

For example, you start off with the popular myth about "8 glasses of water a day". This nonsense has been debunked many times, and it would have only taken you a few minutes to discover this.

 

I pretty much stopped reading at the word "toxins". And definitely at the idiocy about fluoride and cancer.

 

Your commenter is pretty much correct about electrolytes.

 

 

 

Many of the toxic soft drinks consumed today are made with distilled water and much research has proven that these drinks cause huge amounts of vital minerals such as magnesium and calcium along with trace minerals to be lost in the urine.

 

I doubt very much that drinks manufacturers would pay extra for distilled water. And even if they cause minerals to be lost in the urine (which sounds dubious) that is not because they are made with distilled water.

 

After all, in the end, water is just water.

For example, you start off with the popular myth about "8 glasses of water a day". This nonsense has been debunked many times, and it would have only taken you a few minutes to discover this.

 

 

The most interesting thing about this (apart from why so many people want to believe it) is that it is one of those rare myths where the source is known.

http://www.snopes.com/medical/myths/8glasses.asp

[studiot]

I looked at your website, but I cannot endorse it as it contains too many misconceptions.

 

The principle one being that the only non water substances in water are the organic ones.

and that the inorganic substances that make water 'hard' are harmful.

 

Both of these statements are seriously false.

 

Also, since you mention it specifically here, they give you 'electrolytes' in hospital not plain water because if you keep replacing body fluid with water, the substances normally in your body fluids will graduyally become more and more dilute. These substances are part of the normal biochemical processes in the body, so this is potentially very serious.

This danger also happens to athletes and others who loose much fluid through perspiration.

The simplest 'balanced' electrolyte solution is a mixture of common salt and sugar, dissolved in plain water (probably what is called deionised not distilled).

This is usually called 'saline' in hospitals.

Salt is inorganic! Sugar is, of course organic.

Further the organic material in so called 'happy waters' is often found to be contaminants from organisms or their residues when analysed by our local water authorities, which they regularly do.

 

As regards to hard water;

 

The hardness of tap water is regulated in most areas because 'soft' water is slight acidic - acidic enough to attack copper and other (lead) pipes and introduce heavy metal poisons into the water.

Highly undesirable.

Hard water also has a well documented beneficial effect. Studies have shown that in soft water areas such as Glasgow and Scunthorpe the risk of later life heart disease is significantly increased over hard water areas such as London and the South East of England.

The Scunthorpe data was particularly telling since they changed sources to softer water and the heart disease rate went up, so they changed back and it went down again. Such studies obviously take decades.

 

So full marks for wanting to get thing correct, I look foward to hearing of suitable improvements on your site.

 

I say this because you should not take my opinion to be that 'Everything in the garden is rosy'.

It most certainly is not.

 

You just have to find and follow the right experts.

 

Try this

 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Tired-Toxic-Sherry-Rogers/dp/0961882123

 

Dr Rogers talks a great deal of sense about modern living and ways of doing things.

There have been many contaminated water scandals in America.

[TheOrganicWarriors]

Dear Strange and Studiot,

 

Thank you both for taking the time to reply to my appeal for help. It is unfortunate that neither of you went anywhere close to answering my question. I am aware that this may be a result of how I presented and worded the question and I may attempt to ask the question in a re-worded format in the future.

 

It looks like I will be taking a trip to that university to present myself in the physical universe to ask the appropriate questions after all.

 

Strange,

 

thank you for directing me to the Snopes article. I read it in it's entirety and it was very informative. I would like to point out that I have never been a subscriber to the "8 glasses a day," rule. I thought I had pointed that out with my anecdotal story but, having read your reply, I realised I had not so I have amended the article accordingly and hopefully achieved this aim. As has now been stated, the article is not concerned with the volume of water a person consumes but, rather, the quality, or cleanliness, or purity of water consumed.

 

 

 

Firstly, I'm afraid you are going to get a lot of grief over the ignorant nonsense in your article. Hopefully, future articles you write will be better researched.

This nonsense has been debunked many times, and it would have only taken you a few minutes to discover this.I pretty much stopped reading at the word "toxins".

 

Thanks for the free condescension. That was an added bonus. When you say "toxins" I assume you are alluding to the graphic banner which says "Toxic Substance?" I'm not sure.

 

 

 

And definitely at the idiocy about fluoride and cancer.

 

Ah yes, I apologise for that idiocy. That was a quote from Dean Burk, Chief Chemist Emeritus, U.S. National Cancer Institute. So I can only assume you are far more qualified than he to make statements about fluoride causing cancer.

 

 

 

Your commenter is pretty much correct about electrolytes.

 

"Pretty much correct." Is that a technical scientific term? I was kind of hoping for "definitive" answers but thanks anyway for the effort.

 

 

 

I doubt very much that drinks manufacturers would pay extra for distilled water.

 

I appreciate your opinion on the fiscal decisions of drinks manufacturers but I was "pretty much," all over that. You are correct. They don't pay extra for distilled water. In fact, they don't even use distilled water. They use "purified" water which they make in house during their manufacturing process. It would have only taken you a few minutes to discover this. I know of 5 different methods of water purification, of which distillation is one. Ironically, dumping a heap of chlorine in water is another method of purification. I greatly prefer distillation to chlorination for my purified personal drinking water.

 

Hopefully, future replies you post will be better researched.

 

 

 

And even if they cause minerals to be lost in the urine (which sounds dubious) that is not because they are made with distilled water.

 

I agree that soft drinks causing minerals to be lost in the urine sounds dubious however, again, I came to this forum looking for someone who could give me a definitive answer rather than a guess.

 

 

 

After all, in the end, water is just water.

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Water most definitely is NOT just water. To the best of my very basically scientifically educated mind, H²O is the only substance that can rightly be called "water." Anything other than that is water PLUS fluoride, chlorine, taurine, sugar, minerals, arsenic, lead, hexavalent chromium et al.

 

 

 

The most interesting thing about this (apart from why so many people want to believe it) is that it is one of those rare myths where the source is known.

 

You really seem fixated on the 8 glasses a day myth don't you? I can only assume this was simply a typo and you meant to say "the source is NOT known," as stated in the Snopes article you directed me to. At the time this was very confusing because I read the article searching for the KNOWN source of the myth.

 

No need to thank me for the free condescension and sarcasm. Its an added bonus courtesy of me.

 

In the very near future I'll be off to the university in search of a real scientist to answer my questions definitively.

 

Cheerio!

[Strange]

Ah yes, I apologise for that idiocy. That was a quote from Dean Burk, Chief Chemist Emeritus, U.S. National Cancer Institute. So I can only assume you are far more qualified than he to make statements about fluoride causing cancer.

 

 

You didn't provide a source for the quote, so I have no way of confirming if he actually said it, what the context was, or even if he exists. However, you appear to be relying on an argument from authority. As far as I can tell, there is no scientific evidence confirming a link between fluorides and cancer. For example (first search result): https://www.cancer.org/cancer/cancer-causes/water-fluoridation-and-cancer-risk.html

 

 

I appreciate your opinion on the fiscal decisions of drinks manufacturers but I was "pretty much," all over that. You are correct. They don't pay extra for distilled water. In fact, they don't even use distilled water. They use "purified" water which they make in house during their manufacturing process. It would have only taken you a few minutes to discover this.

 

Well, I am not going to apologise for quoting you saying that they use distilled water.

 

 

 

I agree that soft drinks causing minerals to be lost in the urine sounds dubious however, again, I came to this forum looking for someone who could give me a definitive answer rather than a guess.

 

Whether that is true or not, it has nothing to do with them being made using distilled or purified water.

 

 

 

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Water most definitely is NOT just water. To the best of my very basically scientifically educated mind, H²O is the only substance that can rightly be called "water." Anything other than that is water PLUS fluoride, chlorine, taurine, sugar, minerals, arsenic, lead, hexavalent chromium et al.

 

But the water content of a drink is just water. Where that water came from, or how it has been treated is irrelevant.

 

 

 

You really seem fixated on the 8 glasses a day myth don't you? I can only assume this was simply a typo and you meant to say "the source is NOT known," as stated in the Snopes article you directed me to. At the time this was very confusing because I read the article searching for the KNOWN source of the myth.

 

No. I just added an afterthought (which is why I quoted my own post). The Snopes article does mention the source:

 

 

Back in 1945 the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Research Council stated that adults should take in about 2.5 liters of water per day (which is roughly the equivalent of eight glasses of water), but it also noted most of that intake level was already satisfied through the consumption of food without the need for the additional drinking of water. And as other nutritionists of the time noted, any shortfall in water intake could be made up through the consumption of beverages such as coffee, tea, milk, or soft drinks; one need not specifically drink water only in the form of water.

 

From what I remember, this was based on research done for the US Army to work out how much water soldiers would need in different environments. But, as they say, the message was misinterpreted almost immediately.

[Phi for All]

Thanks for the free condescension. That was an added bonus. When you say "toxins" I assume you are alluding to the graphic banner which says "Toxic Substance?" I'm not sure.

 

My objection was to the doctor's reference to their opinion on the cause of arthritis, which they described in relation to "toxins" (a crackpot buzzword that has precise meanings in science):

 

Let us state emphatically that, in our opinion, the misery of arthritis is caused by ingestion of hard water saturated with inorganic minerals and toxins, and an unbalanced diet.

 

An emphatic, overgeneralized opinion by a man who wasn't a medical doctor, and could never prove his affiliations with the various universities he claimed to have attended.

[BabcockHall]

Electrolytes are substances that are good conductors of electricity when dissolved in water. Non electrolytes are poor conductors. Many organic compounds (sucrose and triacylglycerols, for example) are non-electrolytes. However, a subset of organic molecules are electrolytes: One oxygen atom of glycerate has a formal negative charge. The nitrogen atoms of choline has a formal positive charge.

[pavelcherepan]

I have perused your article and let's start with answering your question:

 

 

"A very interesting post but I have a question. What are electrolytes, inorganic or organic? In hospitals we are often given an electrolyte drip to compensate for electrolyte imbalances.

I thought all our electrolytes ie. magnesium, sodium, potassium, calcium and chlorine were inorganic. They may be administered as an organic molecule such as magnesium glycinate which is common in hospitals. But in their ionic form, which is the only way a mineral can be used in the cells, the ion is inorganic. It is no wonder that their is a lot of confusion about this subject.
As for distilled water, it is lacking in all electrolytes so all you've got is hydrogen and oxygen, nothing else. I cannot think it would be of any benefit to drink it.
Many of the toxic soft drinks consumed today are made with distilled water and much research has proven that these drinks cause huge amounts of vital minerals such as magnesium and calcium along with trace minerals to be lost in the urine. Ches

 

So at the very basic level electrolyte is any substance that can produce electrically conductive solution. It doesn't matter, whether the original molecule were organic or inorganic - if it can dissociate in water into an anion and a cation, it's an electrolyte.

 

As far as physiology is concerned, what little I know of it, there are several very important ions, that are required for the normal functioning of the body. Most important of those as per Wikipedia are: Na⁺, K⁺, Ca²⁺, Mg²⁺, HCO₃^- and HPO₄^2-. Any water-soluble salt of these ions would be considered an electrolyte in the physiological sense and, if the original salt is organic, like in the example in your quote, then it's an organic electrolyte.

 

Now to the other parts of the quote.

 

1) It's incorrect to say that drinking distilled water has no benefit at all. Water is the solvent in which all of biochemical processes take place, water is the substance greatly used in temperature regulation and for those purposes it's not important whether it does or doesn't contain ions.

 

Obviously, distilled water in large amounts can be dangerous, with LD₅₀ for rats usually quoted at about >90 ml/kg or slightly over 6 liters for a person with my weight. But that number is around the same for both distilled and non-distilled water. Ideally, of course, you'd want normal water full of very useful electrolytes.

 

2) Please define what "toxic soft drinks" refers to. It is obvious that you're using the term toxic very liberally throughout your article, so I'd suggest you refer to the definition of toxicity:

 

 

Toxicity is the degree to which a substance can damage an organism.^[1]

...

A central concept of toxicology is that the effects of a toxin are dose-dependent; even water can lead to water intoxication when taken in too high a dose

 

In fact, not only water, but also oxygen and carbon dioxide and, in fact, most chemicals you encounter in your daily life are to some degree toxic.

 

3) I also noticed that in "What is tap water" section of your article you somehow forgot to mention the most toxic of the water components sometimes encountered in tap water - hydroxyl acid, often abbreviated as HDA. Unlike all others you mentioned, where their effects on health are not clearly understood, the HDA has 100% mortality rate. Just think about it - every person who'd ever taken HDA, has died or will die and it's been found in tumor cells of most cancer patients.

 

EDIT: Joking aside, I'd also like to note, that the story in the beginning of your article about drinking 5 liters of water in an hour is not a healthy thing to do. The maximum rate of perspiration observed in adults that I managed to find was about 4 liters/hr, which is the amount of water that person would need to replace to maintain normal functioning of the body. Drinking 5 liters an hour for a prolonged period of time can lead to some severe health issues. I would not recommend anyone do it.

Edited June 13, 2017 by pavelcherepan

[BabcockHall]

Some colored soft drinks contain brominated vegetable oils, which can lead to bromism when the soft drink is consumed in very large volumes (this can be found using PubMed). Of course the OP is also welcome to discuss other on-topic matters relating to the toxicity of soft drinks.