Can a Black Hole with a High Spin Rate Drag Space Around

[Zylacone]

I read an article in a magazine which mentioned that a black hole spinning at near the speed of light can drag space around it. I could believe this more easily if space were a form of matter, the Higgs field say. If anyone knows more please let me know.

[swansont]

Lense-Thirring effect, aka frame-dragging

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame-dragging

[imatfaal]

You need to read up on "Frame Dragging".

 

The Kerr Metric (this is a vacuum solution to the Einstein Field Equations - ie General Relativity) described spacetime around a black hole with angular momentum - ie a spinning black hole. So yes a spinning black hole does "drag spacetime around"

 

It does not need to be spinning at the speed of light - in fact it cannot be as nothing which has mass moves through space at the speed of light - it just needs to be massive and be spinning. A central spinning mass will entrain the inertial frame such that it is affected by the central masses rotation; it is a gravitational effect - but that must also be seen as an acceleration effect of an inertial frame.

 

Here is Clifford Will's write up of the experimental proof of frame dragging - Gravity Probe B

 

https://physics.aps.org/articles/v4/43

[Jose50]

You need to read up on "Frame Dragging".

 

The Kerr Metric (this is a vacuum solution to the Einstein Field Equations - ie General Relativity) described spacetime around a black hole with angular momentum - ie a spinning black hole. So yes a spinning black hole does "drag spacetime around"

 

It does not need to be spinning at the speed of light - in fact it cannot be as nothing which has mass moves through space at the speed of light - it just needs to be massive and be spinning. A central spinning mass will entrain the inertial frame such that it is affected by the central masses rotation; it is a gravitational effect - but that must also be seen as an acceleration effect of an inertial frame.

 

Here is Clifford Will's write up of the experimental proof of frame dragging - Gravity Probe B

 

https://physics.aps.org/articles/v4/43

I believe there is no frame-dragging effect of gravity on mass, only on electromagnetic energy!

Curiously, the Lense-Thirring effect in Gravity Probe B has the same value than the geodetic effect of the Earth around the Sun.

NASA error?

An interesting experiment!

Understanding Gravity Probe-B experiment without math

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Edited May 25, 2017 by Phi for All
no advertising, please

[Phi for All]

I believe there is no frame-dragging effect of gravity on mass, only on electromagnetic energy!

Curiously, the Lense-Thirring effect in Gravity Probe B has the same value than the geodetic effect of the Earth around the Sun.

NASA error?

An interesting experiment!

Understanding Gravity Probe-B experiment without math

Advertising links removed by moderator

 

!

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[beecee]

I'm sure I have read somewhere from a reputable source, that the Lense Thirring effect was detected by a Satellite of sorts before the highly precise GP-B confirmation.

[imatfaal]

I'm sure I have read somewhere from a reputable source, that the Lense Thirring effect was detected by a Satellite of sorts before the highly precise GP-B confirmation.

 

I think Juno is gathering information as we type. Not sure I know of another one tasked to gather information about this phenomenon

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(spacecraft)

 

If there is already a completed set of observations then it will be found at Clifford Will's site which I linked above

 

From this article we can expect data set in October this year

 

https://arxiv.org/abs/1302.6920

[beecee]

 

I think Juno is gathering information as we type. Not sure I know of another one tasked to gather information about this phenomenon

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juno_(spacecraft)

 

If there is already a completed set of observations then it will be found at Clifford Will's site which I linked above

 

From this article we can expect data set in October this year

 

https://arxiv.org/abs/1302.6920

Thanks Imatfall....I did a search myself and my memory was immediately jogged!...not bad for an old bloke!

This was what I was trying to recall.......

https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9704065

 

Detection of Lense-Thirring Effect Due to Earth's Spin

I. Ciufolini, D. Lucchesi, F. Vespe, F. Chieppa

(Submitted on 23 Apr 1997)

 

Rotation of a body, according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, generates a "force" on other matter; in Newton's gravitational theory only the mass of a body produces a force. This phenomenon, due to currents of mass, is known as gravitomagnetism owing to its formal analogies with magnetism due to currents of electric charge. Therefore, according to general relativity, Earth's rotation should influence the motion of its orbiting satellites. Indeed, we analysed the laser ranging observations of the orbits of the satellites LAGEOS and LAGEOS II, using a program developed at NASA/GSFC, and obtained the first direct measurement of the gravitomagnetic orbital perturbation due to the Earth's rotation, known as the Lense-Thirring effect. The accuracy of our measurement is about 25%.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[highlight by me]

GP-B of course put the icing on the cake.

[imatfaal]

Thanks Imatfall....I did a search myself and my memory was immediately jogged!...not bad for an old bloke!

This was what I was trying to recall.......

https://arxiv.org/abs/gr-qc/9704065

 

Detection of Lense-Thirring Effect Due to Earth's Spin

I. Ciufolini, D. Lucchesi, F. Vespe, F. Chieppa

(Submitted on 23 Apr 1997)

 

Rotation of a body, according to Einstein's theory of general relativity, generates a "force" on other matter; in Newton's gravitational theory only the mass of a body produces a force. This phenomenon, due to currents of mass, is known as gravitomagnetism owing to its formal analogies with magnetism due to currents of electric charge. Therefore, according to general relativity, Earth's rotation should influence the motion of its orbiting satellites. Indeed, we analysed the laser ranging observations of the orbits of the satellites LAGEOS and LAGEOS II, using a program developed at NASA/GSFC, and obtained the first direct measurement of the gravitomagnetic orbital perturbation due to the Earth's rotation, known as the Lense-Thirring effect. The accuracy of our measurement is about 25%.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[highlight by me]

GP-B of course put the icing on the cake.

 

I did a paper trawl and missed that one - not sure it ever made it through peer-review. There was a huge acknowledged error and a bit of a dog-pile afterwards with people spotting other sources of systemic and statistical error.

 

Gravity Probe B was orginally noted as an F for fail remember - it was only when it was bailed out by the Saudis that any results could be gleaned from the data. I think there is still a strong will for a lense-thirring experiment which provides a nce clear slam dunk. Not that anyone serious doubts the results - but that is science for you; test, retest, and then work out how you can continue testing