What is a 'gut feeling'?

[brad89]

Can a 'gut feeling' be described psycologically? I was playing poker earlier on, and I have always had these, but I keep getting gut feelings about the next cards to be placed. Sometimes I really end up right. Actually most times. But that isn't the point. Is a feeling a chemical reaction in the brain? An enigma made by our belief that we even have a gut feeling (that really doesn't make much sense)? To rephrase that, the belief that the future will come out the way we 'have a feeling' that it will? I don't get how to describe it.

[Coral Rhedd]

Can a 'gut feeling' be described psycologically? I was playing poker earlier on, and I have always had these, but I keep getting gut feelings about the next cards to be placed. Sometimes I really end up right. Actually most times. But that isn't the point. Is a feeling a chemical reaction in the brain? An enigma made by our belief that we even have a gut feeling (that really doesn't make much sense)? To rephrase that, the belief that the future will come out the way we 'have a feeling' that it will? I don't get how to describe it.

 

To see if you are correct in your assessment that your "feelings" are predicting the cards, write down what you think the next card will be. Then you can check to see if you are doing better than chance. It is too easy to fool ourselves when we retrospect.

 

A few times I have had really compelling "gut feelings" that panned out. Sadly, I did not follow my instincts most of the time.

 

As I get older I have finally learned to listen to that inner voice. Sure I could try to sit down and reason every decision out, but I am ADD, a little obsessive, and I would just get myself in a muddle.

 

For an interesting take on how we know what it seems we cannot know, read Malcolm Gladwell's fascinating book Blink.

[reverse]

Can a 'gut feeling' be described psycologically? I was playing poker earlier on, and I have always had these, but I keep getting gut feelings about the next cards to be placed. Sometimes I really end up right. Actually most times. But that isn't the point. Is a feeling a chemical reaction in the brain? An enigma made by our belief that we even have a gut feeling (that really doesn't make much sense)? To rephrase that, the belief that the future will come out the way we 'have a feeling' that it will? I don't get how to describe it.

 

 

Will you do a test?

 

will you get into a well known social gathering place with an observer. and get a deck of cards.

get the observer to hold up a card with it's back to you.

try and name the card.

If you get it right keep it

if you get it wrong they keep it.

go through a deck ten times and calculate your success %.

get back to me if its above the odds.

this is not science just a precursor vetting process.

[aswokei]

This could be made into a really interesting thread. I'm sure we've all had these feelings before; I know I have.

 

I had a gut feeling once. It was right before I got my ass kicked. I remember the feeling distinctly. It wasn't quite like anything else I've ever felt before. If I could translate the feeling into English it would be: there is something wrong. Something is going to happen. And indeed it did. As I walked from the music department back to study hall, some thug came up to me and beat my ass.

 

It was the only time I remember it ever happening.

 

As for scientific explanations, I can only go so far as Freud. The gut feeling is your subconsciousness speaking to you. As is scientifically evident, you absorb a lot more information than you are aware of. And in my experience information in the underconsciousness makes itself useful through feelings.

 

If you are a musician you can certainly relate with what I am saying here. When you lay your hands on a guitar or piano everything you do is pure emotion, especially when it comes to writing music. It's completely different from logical mental activities. Much more transient and flowing. I know when I am writing music, I usually just play random notes and wait until something evokes an emotion and then I write a song about that emotion. A single fleeting emotion can entail a lot of information which higher parts of the brain can transpose into notes and music.

 

We operate on feelings predominately and these feelings (whose origins we are not aware of) can easily carry their momentum over the brain/body synapse into a physical feeling.

 

I'm not sure if I told you anything you don't already know... but that's what I got.

[Bettina]

What I get are similar. Here is one of tons of articles I collected.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn4638

 

Bettina

[brad89]

Will you do a test?

 

will you get into a well known social gathering place with an observer. and get a deck of cards.

get the observer to hold up a card with it's back to you.

try and name the card.

If you get it right keep it

if you get it wrong they keep it.

go through a deck ten times and calculate your success %.

get back to me if its above the odds.

this is not science just a precursor vetting process.

 

Well' date=' I tried it. Actually I tried two. It is really interesting. The first test was the one you suggested. My percentage was a mere 3% (I only choose the card number, not the suit), and this was out of 10 times. Not bad, but the second one was where I realized something. I have really good feelings. What I did was go heads up against some friends in poker. I followed my feelings instead of trying to play smart. Almost 80% of the time I was right. What would happen is I would get a hand and see the flop. If my friend was betting, I would see what my feelings would say. A couple of miracle guesses happened, I predicted 5 pairs, 3 two pairs, 3 straights, 4 flushes, and even 1 full house! I couldn't believe how well that worked out. My 'feeling' said [call, he is bluffing'] or [call the all in, you will get a straight], and I was absolutely amazed how well I predicted certain hands. I would suggest people to try the same thing and share their results.

[reverse]

So now try it with a blind fold.

 

Then try it with sound blocked.

 

See if it’s audio or visual cues you may be picking up on.

 

(ps this is still not science).

[brad89]

I know, I get the point that they aren't always right. But it really isn't about the poker guessing, it is really interest in what a gut feeling is. How do we create feelings out of nowhere. We don't know the future, how can we supposedly predict something that will happen in the future? Is it some ilusion that our brain tricks us into thinking we have feelings about the future? Some kind of chemical reaction? Does it really come from our gut (vague question)? What I meant was it really seems to come from our gut, but why? Does this happen to anybody else? Why do we have these feelings? Truly, I have a theory of what it might be, but this is a 'far out' theory.

[brad89]

Perhaps, out of pure theory, we have these feelings because time is proportionate to kinetic energy. Kind of odd, but if we move faster, time goes just a slight bit slower. Perhaps by swinging our hand back and forth for years and years, the hand is on a different plane of time from us. Perhaps the hand gains a slight emotion the nerves from our brain send. I doubt it, but if true at all, this phenomena could also explain De Ja Vue (no idea how to spell). Give me your input.

[brad89]

Kind of like that, could aswokei have 'remembered' pain from a future plane of time? Time doesn't move much slower for something faster than it, but that is why we get these feelings so soon after a certain event. Or before. As for De Ja Vue, we could have our eyes move faster, being ahead of our time, seeing something ahead of our plane of time. God, this is so odd. I doubt it is true, though. It is a far out there theory, and has no proof behind it.

[reverse]

Well as to your specific question…

 

My unproven thought on it is this.

 

Devolve human physiology backwards to a primitive simple organism and you will see the intimate connection between good fortune and food.

Hence the “gut” response.

 

( I stress, It’s just my idle theory, not real science )

[husmusen]

Gut feeling == Male intuition.

 

aswokie, you are not alone, I can't count the number of times I've

heard similar things.

 

I also know people who claim to have "felt" when loved ones died.

I suppose that's a kind of gut feeling.

 

Do you think that the ability to feel when someone is staring at you is

similar to what your describing?

 

Cheers

[Coral Rhedd]

What I did was go heads up against some friends in poker. I followed my feelings instead of trying to play smart. Almost 80% of the time I was right. What would happen is I would get a hand and see the flop. If my friend was betting, I would see what my feelings would say. A couple of miracle guesses happened, I predicted 5 pairs, 3 two pairs, 3 straights, 4 flushes, and even 1 full house! I couldn't believe how well that worked out. My 'feeling' said [call, he is bluffing] or [call the all in, you will get a straight'], and I was absolutely amazed how well I predicted certain hands. I would suggest people to try the same thing and share their results.

 

Haven't played poker in years, and wasn't good then. I am too cautious. However, I would bet that you were not just predicting the hands, you were reading your friends. Somehow, I think you might have a different result playing professionals who were not known to you. They don't give much away.

[jdurg]

As a poker player myself, I can attest to this 'gut feeling' syndrome. I can also concurr that it is simply the result of a subconcious gathering of information. Your senses are constantly picking up little bits of information and relaying them to your brain. The better you get playing poker, the more you are able to recognize these 'subconcious' bits of information that you are picking up. There have been many times where I have made some questionable calls or folds based upon the betting going on and the cards on the table. In about 95% of those instances, I have been right with my decision as the person I'm playing against just had to show their cards. I've also noticed that I don't get these 'feelings' if I've had too much to drink or if I'm feeling ill or tired. This is because the tiredness/illness and inebriation alter my ability to pick up on these little 'tells'.

 

I've also come across those situations where I'll look down to see Jack-Ten offsuit while faced with a raise from a bad position. I'll really want to play that hand and I think to myself 'oh, the straight will hit if I stick around'. It's even worse when I have a mid pocket pair and higher cards hit on the flop. I'll think that if I stick around I'll catch my trips. Oddly enough, I seem to be right during the times that I fold. I always think 'damn, if only I'd stuck around'. The thing is, the human mind is GREAT at remembering all the times that it did hit, but it sucks at remembering the MANY more numerous times that it didn't hit.

 

So as for what the 'gut feeling' is, it's simply intense thinking going on in your mind which results in some other physiological changes. (Increased heart rate, blood pressure, etc.)

[brad89]

Oh, well, I guess that has an explanation to poker, but I am not sure how to explain everything else. That is the whole reason I brought that thought out there, anyway.

[Newtonian]

As a poker player myself i liked jdurgs post.However i dont agree that his analogy was correct.In poker we are constantly weighing up the probabilities,there are only 52 cards in the pack and as he rightly says we have seen the straight hit and miss many times.

But gut feeling is the total opposite from intense thinking.It hits us so to speak totally out of the blue.When in fact we may not have been thinking about anything related to the subject of this 'emotion ' for want of a better word.

 

At times it seems like a cosmic entity is passing a snippet of info to a future event direct into your brain.It cannot be instinctual because as a form analyser,i bet on what i percieve with many years of experience as the horse with the best chance on form.Then as im stood there waiting for the off,a very strong 'gut feeling'you should bet this complete rag outsider its going to win!!(occasionaly accompanied by a subtle

hint...staring out the bookmakers window you see a seagull passing...which happens to be the horses name your getting the feeling about)

Now we may not always act on the feeling depending on its intensity,or if we let logic rule our thoughts.But i can honestly say regardless of my betting,the horse i got the feeling about always won.Never ever lost!

Easy you say? get rich by betting on your gut feeling.If only it were that simple,the fact is the feeling is a totally illogical attack on the sense's, varies in intensity and common sense has fistycuffs with your feelings.'What if this time your wrong...your just thinking its a gut feeling....do you really want to put this months wage all on a dumb beast with four legs"....regardless wether you act or not,its always a sickening DAMMIT i should have bet.

It is well documented that this 'gut feeling' saves lives,famously W.Churchill springs to mind.Many of avoidable deaths may have been because the person failed to act on the little voice that said NOOOO DONT GET IN THE CAR DIANA,(sorry bout that)

 

My own thoughts to the origin of this feeling/thought is to do with the Time.We know so little and percieve it to be linear but i think everything has already happened.There is no 'free will',what will be will be.You dont always go with the gut feeling because that course of action has already happened YOU DIDNT do it so it can never change.

A case of you actually got on the death train that smashes into the plonkers transit van stuck on the track,so it is unavoidable.

So what is it you ask?

Well it may be us tuning into the frequency of time,our time!.30 secs into the future our consciousness is/has functioned and our neurons have already fired,we may be getting no more than a glitch a bridging of the gap,the ability to percieve two instances of time itself....hence the feeling we all get at times of THE GREAT COSMIC JOKER....i shouldnt walk near that muddy puddle "what if a car comessss.....SPLASH.....and yep your soaked..now what were the probabilities of that happening on a country road with no cars in sight!!..or i will walk to that interview in my new suit its a nice day.........and yep before you arrive the heavens open and your drenched.

[Newtonian]

The best example i can give about the lack of free will is my life's experience.Were i am today is because of descisions i took/or failed to take from the very beginning.Every relationship i ever had with people was meant to happen that way to bring me today.If i had married this person,said yes to this plan i wouldnt be here now in my present situation.The fact is they were not little branches of descisions i made sendng me down different paths,it was inevitable....already happened.If i had of stayed and married my partner of 19 years....i would not be with this fabulous person whom i can say is my soul mate,a person i have been searching for my whole life.Four years ago i got very frequent dreams of holding a beautiful baby girl i can see her face vividly and i had the dream enough times to know.

It was however illogical my children were grown up late teens, i certainly didnt want any more.But today im staring into the face of my two year old daughter...the same person from my dreams....i know it is!!! the fact is regardless of others opinion it has confirmed my convictions.It has not altered my actions,thoughts, feelings.I still make mistakes and apart from now i dont get concerned about it,it doesnt occupy my thoughts.I percieve free will on my part and live my life accordingly.Which is has it should be!

That is how it is.....enjoy it you only get one go at it.........dust ye was made and dust ye shall return.Just when the cosmic joker strikes laugh along with it.....you really couldnt avoid it...lol

[YT2095]

a "Gut Feeling" to me is like any other feeling, except it`s harder to label and alot more annoying, making it difficult to ignore. I ignore mine at my peril!

[Mag]

to me a gut feeling is like your 1st choise.

 

Such as a multiple choise test, the first one you choose is usually right.

 

and just like other people said, its your brain gathering information all around you, and making a predictoin.

[husmusen]

to me a gut feeling is like your 1st choise.

 

Such as a multiple choise test, the first one you choose is usually right.

 

and just like other people said, its your brain gathering information all around you, and making a predictoin.

 

Well that may explain some to a lot of gut feelings, and probably near

100% of all poker related ones , but I dont think it can

come anywhere near explaining all of them.

 

From talking to people, it seems these are a near universal human experience,

I also find evidence for them in literature going back to the 1800's.

 

Cheers.

[brad89]

Here is something interesting. No, this isn't from the matrix. But really, is there a such thing as 'choice'? Choice means that you can do one or more things at a certain point in time. Choice obviously exists, you can make a choice, but there is only two ways to change a choice, to go back in time, or to know the future. You can choose to go somewhere, but 'ultimately', you would have always chosen to go there. You can't change that. But say you were right next to god. Say that he told you you were going to choose to go to Taco Bell instead of Quiznos. Now, if you end up still being able to choose, you now are faced with a 'true' choice, which means that you could even prove god wrong! You could now choose Quiznos, just to piss him off! Now you have defied god! That means that there was a true choice. This really didn't make much sense, I could clear it up, but that would be a really long post in the end. I felt kind of lazy, so I decided to shorten it up a bit. (When I mentioned god, that was purely for just an example)

[Mag]

Well that may explain some to a lot of gut feelings' date=' and probably near

100% of all poker related ones , but I dont think it can

come anywhere near explaining all of them.

[/quote']

 

 

yeah, but the other ones are harder to explain

 

but really, the other ones are difficult to explain without making it seem like there is a 6th sense.

[blike]

I think it ultimately boils down to the fact that we tend to remember successful "gut feelinsg", i.e. gut feelings which were acted upon and resulted in a positive outcome. For example, you don't remember all the gut feelings you had about poker that went wrong. The ones that stick out are the gut feelings that worked in your favor.

 

The other day I was reading about the same phenomenon in the medical profession. Phyiscians often have gut feelings about patients. The ones that were acted upon and resulted in a favorable outcome are typically remembered, but the ones that ended up being wrong are usually quickly forgotten. Thus, the "gut feeling" feels like more than it actually is.

 

I read of a study in Switzerland (I believe) where a world-renowned cardiologist was asked to view several hundred ECGs and identify which ones he thought indicated the patient was experiencing a heart attack. He was matched up against a computer which had studied several thousand ECGs as well. The computer had no intuition, only raw processing of information based on a few variables on the ECG. The computer beat the physician, identifying something like 15% more accurately.

 

Another study I read about involved psychiatrists evaluating prisoners for release. They were matched up with a computer which evaluated a few simple parameters, plugged them into a formula, and then predicted the likelihood of the prisoners committing another crime. The computer predicted more accurately than psychiatrists, yet it had no intuition and was based on a select few parameters.

 

Just food for thought.

[Bettina]

Another study I read about involved psychiatrists evaluating prisoners for release. They were matched up with a computer which evaluated a few simple parameters' date=' plugged them into a formula, and then predicted the likelihood of the prisoners committing another crime. The computer predicted more accurately than psychiatrists, yet it had no intuition and was based on a select few parameters.

 

Just food for thought.[/quote']

 

I knew Psychiatrists were just guessing most of the time....and the computer had just a few parameters too. You just did me a big favor. Thanks

 

Bettina

[husmusen]

I knew Psychiatrists were just guessing most of the time.

 

Actually I'll give them a little more credit, they are really quite good

at dealing with mentally ill people.

 

I think the problem is when people who aren't mentally ill, or aren't

seriously so, get taken to a psych, you know the old saying,

take it to a plumber, you have a plumbing problem, take it to a

carpenter, ...

 

Madness Explained by Richard Bentall.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0140275401/qid=1118640190/sr=2-2/ref=pd_bbs_b_2_2/102-1753874-9087313

 

I found much of this mans insights quite illuminating on the positives

and negatives of psychiatry and psychology.

 

I don't know why they state it hasn't been released yet, I am looking

at it right now? Released earlier in Australia than the US? That'd be a

change, a pleasant one too.

 

Cheers.