Plasma cushion levitation cars

[Moreno]

Some futurologist predicts that a vehicles may be designed to levitate on a plasma cushion:

 

Maglev trains have been around for decades. Levitating cars won’t use anti-gravity in my lifetime, so magnetic levitation is the only non-hovercraft means obvious. They don’t actually need metal roads to fly over, although that is one mechanism. It is possible to contain a cushion of plasma and ride on that. OK, it is a bit hovercrafty, since it uses a magnetic skirt to keep the plasma in place, but at least it won’t need big fans and drafts. The same technique could work for a skateboard too.

 

https://timeguide.wordpress.com/2014/10/10/the-future-of-levitation/

 

Does anyone can imagine how exactly it will work?

[KipIngram]

That sounds pretty far-fetched to me. Sounds like they're talking about using a magnetic field to contain a volume of stuff underneath, and then I guess it would compress until the pressure was able to hold the vehicle up. Doesn't seem to violate any principles, at least mechanically, but I don't see how they'd pull it off.

After all, it's compressed air in tires that keep them holding their shape.

[studiot]

Basic transportation mechanics is often forgotten with these 'futuristic' systems.

 

Notably, once you have levitated something, how do you safely drive it forwards in a crowded street?

[Country Boy]

And how do you STOP it?

[Moreno]

Can a car have electron emitters under its bottom and levitate on that charge cloud?

[Manticore]

And they never, ever think of how it's going to handle side winds.

[Moreno]

And they never, ever think of how it's going to handle side winds.

 

Either charge cloud suppose to create some kind of traction between a car and road (something similar to quantum

locking). Or some additional small reaction drives have to be installed to correct the car right-left position.

[Manticore]

 

Either charge cloud suppose to create some kind of traction between a car and road (something similar to quantum

locking). Or some additional small reaction drives have to be installed to correct the car right-left position.

 

It's not going to be that simple - ever tried landing a light aircraft in a serious crosswind?

[Moreno]

 

It's not going to be that simple - ever tried landing a light aircraft in a serious crosswind?

 

Light aircraft has only one drive propeller. According to my knowledge there is no additional stabilization drives to the back of its body.

Also I meant levitating car, not a flying car. It suppose to levitate just 30-50 cm over the ground. Therefore there should be much less problems with wind turbulence.

[Manticore]

 

Light aircraft has only one drive propeller. According to my knowledge there is no additional stabilization drives to the back of its body.

Also I meant levitating car, not a flying car. It suppose to levitate just 30-50 cm over the ground. Therefore there should be much less problems with wind turbulence.:

It's worse near the ground.

Also, where did I say anything about "one" - or "propellor"?

[studiot]

You started off talking about a 'plasma cushion', now you are talking about a cloud of electrons so which is it?

 

And while you are at it please address my queries about traffic dynamics.

 

For instance you now say that the machine will have to be confined to special road.

 

So how would I get home, or are you proposing laying this system everywhere, replacing all the existing roads?

 

If you do this how will pedestrians, ladies with prams, dogwalker, cyclists, horseriders etc get about?

 

How much will it cost?

 

Can you have more than one vehicle an the track at a time (you can't with maglev or any train for that matter)?

[Moreno]

You started off talking about a 'plasma cushion', now you are talking about a cloud of electrons so which is it?

 

And while you are at it please address my queries about traffic dynamics.

 

For instance you now say that the machine will have to be confined to special road.

 

So how would I get home, or are you proposing laying this system everywhere, replacing all the existing roads?

 

If you do this how will pedestrians, ladies with prams, dogwalker, cyclists, horseriders etc get about?

 

How much will it cost?

 

Can you have more than one vehicle an the track at a time (you can't with maglev or any train for that matter)?

 

Plasma cushion wasn't my idea, I provided a link to it. Because the author didn't provide enough explanations,

I started to engage in phantasies on how it may work. For now I don't have a precise idea, just very broad idea.

I thought if you have negatively charged bottom of a car (it can be a charge permanently embedded in a dielectric,

and the Earth has negative potential too, then under certain conditions negative charge cloud placed between Earth

and bottom of a car may work as a cushion. Under condition these charge will not create a lightning and will not electrocute someone. No, I didn't mean a special roads have to be build. It suppose to work on any surface.

 

Ultrasonic levitation may be another interesting (and probably less dangerous idea). It may work not only as a mean of levitation,

but a method of propulsion as well. You may direct acoustic waves under different angles under the bottom of car and thus manipulate with way of direction.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Moreno

[John Cuthber]

Plasma in air generates lots of toxic NOx and ozone.

The pollution would be unacceptable.

Edited June 7, 2017 by John Cuthber

[Moreno]

 

If there exist magnetic fields strong enough to suspend non-magnetic objects in air (such as frogs), using their

dia/paramagnetic properties, how strong magnetic fields would be needed to levitate car over cement or asphalt,

assuming that later may have dia or paramagnetic properties? Could somebody calculate it?

[KipIngram]

It's hard to be cheaper and more effective than a wheel. Why is it so necessary not to touch the ground? Touching the ground with four wheels just happens to work extraordinarily well. I'm not sure it's a problem that needs a new solution. None of the arguments in favor of "air cars" (that can actually fly well above the ground) apply hear - this "cushion" still requires the ground there to provide the bottom pressure containment barrier. So it has no advantages whatsoever over a car. And lots of disadvantages, as noted above (side winds being a very significant one - wheels only roll along one line).

[studiot]

It's hard to be cheaper and more effective than a wheel. Why is it so necessary not to touch the ground? Touching the ground with four wheels just happens to work extraordinarily well. I'm not sure it's a problem that needs a new solution. None of the arguments in favor of "air cars" (that can actually fly well above the ground) apply hear - this "cushion" still requires the ground there to provide the bottom pressure containment barrier. So it has no advantages whatsoever over a car. And lots of disadvantages, as noted above (side winds being a very significant one - wheels only roll along one line).

 

I still don't think the OP has appreciated it's a whole lot worse than that.

 

Assuming for the moment that you have levitated your vehicle by some means.

 

What are the ways of propelling it?

 

Propellor/TurboFan

Jet engine

Rocket Engine

 

Have you ever stood behind a hovercraft fan or saturn rocket exhaust or any other of these?

 

There is a real issue with other such vehicles on the road, even in perfectly windfree conditions.

 

And yes, as Halls of Ivy said

 

How do you stop, manouver etc?

[KipIngram]

I guess the point I was trying to make is that right out the gate the wheel doesn't really need an upgrade. It works, and works very well.

[John Cuthber]

 

If there exist magnetic fields strong enough to suspend non-magnetic objects in air (such as frogs), using their

dia/paramagnetic properties, how strong magnetic fields would be needed to levitate car over cement or asphalt,

assuming that later may have dia or paramagnetic properties? Could somebody calculate it?

Have you seen the size of the magnet it takes to levitate a few ounces of frog?

 

Also, have you ever tried to steer a hovercraft?

I have- it was "enlightening".

With a car or a bike, you point the wheels in the direction you want to go and, within reason, that's the way you go.

With a hovercraft the steering wheel isn't so much an instruction as an "opening of negotiations".

It's like trying to steer a cat by shouting at it in Klingon.

Edited June 7, 2017 by John Cuthber

[Moreno]

It's hard to be cheaper and more effective than a wheel. Why is it so necessary not to touch the ground? Touching the ground with four wheels just happens to work extraordinarily well. I'm not sure it's a problem that needs a new solution. None of the arguments in favor of "air cars" (that can actually fly well above the ground) apply hear - this "cushion" still requires the ground there to provide the bottom pressure containment barrier. So it has no advantages whatsoever over a car. And lots of disadvantages, as noted above (side winds being a very significant one - wheels only roll along one line).

 

There is a bunch of advantages. Some of them:

1) Much cheaper car (initially), lighter, simpler(?) and cheaper to maintain a car.

If you have a car, try to remember how many money did you spend on tire rotation and replacement,

suspension and brakes. Steering system here relates as well.

2) It becomes all-terrain vehicle, can fly over the water and mood possibly. Increases comfort.

3) No skid wheels crashes.

4) If all or majority vehicles will become levitating, load on paved roads will diminish few times and hence road building costs,

which are expensive, by the way.

5) Reduced noise

6) No big problem with tire recycling.

Edited June 7, 2017 by Moreno

[KipIngram]

And you expect the exotic gear to make this plasma wall to need no maintenance? It would not necessarily be able to fly over water - it's the pressurized air trapped within the skirt / undercarriage / ground cavity that holds the vehicle up. That pressure would push water out of the way. Perhaps if it was a large enough cavity you could still win on that one, but it doesn't go without saying.

 

I'm assuming you meant "skid," not "squid." But that goes back to exactly what was noted earlier - this would skid more easily than a wheeled vehicle, because it inherently has no resistance to motion in any direction, whereas wheels do.

 

The load is still there, but I grant you that one - it would be spread out over a very large so the pressure on the road surface at any give point would be less.

 

As far as recycling, cost of alignment, rotation, etc. You have to remember you have to supply the power needed to maintain the magnetic containment. That power will cost money. I think your total operational costs will be much, much higher - if you can even make this work at all. I'd have no idea how to go about "projecting" a containment field out away from the bottom of the vehicle. Off the cuff, I think it's a pipe dream, unless you have engineering drawings to share.

[Moreno]

 

 

Assuming for the moment that you have levitated your vehicle by some means.

 

What are the ways of propelling it?

 

Propellor/TurboFan

Jet engine

Rocket Engine

 

Have you ever stood behind a hovercraft fan or saturn rocket exhaust or any other of these?

 

There is a real issue with other such vehicles on the road, even in perfectly windfree conditions.

 

And yes, as Halls of Ivy said

 

How do you stop, manouver etc?

I would prefer to avoid blades and modern reaction drives for obvious reasons. Therefore the way of propulsion may be associated with the way to stay levitated. For example, if it's a maglev train you may manipulate with electromagnets by turning them on

and of and change train direction in this way. If it will be acoustic levitation, we may manipulate with a direction of sound waves coming out of bottom of the car moving it in a desirable direction or even to break (by changing the angles of the sonic beams to opposite).

 

Finally, if you want a bit of sci-fi, there seem some natural phenomenon been observed in which momentum of body does seem to be violated.

For example - ball lightning. Ball lightning appears to be pretty small and nearly transparent (of low mass) but is capable to pull heavy objects for a long distances, such as machinery, log, humans, etc. If this is not "reactionless drive", then what?

KipIngram​ writes:

 

 

I'm assuming you meant "skid," not "squid." But that goes back to exactly what was noted earlier - this would skid more easily than a wheeled vehicle, because it inherently has no resistance to motion in any direction, whereas wheels do.

 

Explain maglev trains and quantum locking.

Regarding price, how can you know? The high costs of maglev trains is explained by cooling systems. And what if we would have room temperature superconductors? History shows that those mechanical systems with moving parts cost more initially than those without. I would guess room temperature superconductors in maglevs will cost cheaper then rails and wheels in high-speed trains.

For absence of tare and ware.

[studiot]

I would prefer to avoid blades and modern reaction drives for obvious reasons. Therefore the way of propulsion may be associated with the way to stay levitated. For example, if it's a maglev train you may manipulate with electromagnets by turning them on

and of and change train direction in this way. If it will be acoustic levitation, we may manipulate with a direction of sound waves coming out of bottom of the car moving it in a desirable direction or even to break (by changing the angles of the sonic beams to opposite).

 

Finally, if you want a bit of sci-fi, there seem some natural phenomenon been observed in which momentum of body does seem to be violated.

For example - ball lightning. Ball lightning appears to be pretty small and nearly transparent (of low mass) but is capable to pull heavy objects for a long distances, such as machinery, log, humans, etc. If this is not "reactionless drive", then what?

 

 

 

 

Thank you for replying at last.

 

Yes you can incorporate the drive in the track/vehicle system, but that confines the vehicles to special tracks exactly as I said.

 

You need special tracks not only to provide forward propulsion but also to prevent sideways movement and to guide the vehicle around curves and intersections.

 

How would a crossroads work?

 

An important point about wheels is that you automatically get traction from the frictional contact with the roadway or even (especially in the american case) off-roadway surface.

Edited June 7, 2017 by studiot

[Moreno]

 

 

 

Yes you can incorporate the drive in the track/vehicle system, but that confines the vehicles to special tracks exactly as I said.

 

You need special tracks not only to provide forward propulsion but also to prevent sideways movement and to guide the vehicle around curves and intersections.

 

 

I'm not sure this is a case in acoustic levitation, for example. You can imaging acoustic levitation as a car supported by many

legs and each leg is an ultrasonic beam. this beams all may have different directions and change direction to ensure the

best stability of a vehicle, change direction of movement and stop it. For example to stay straight all beam may be directed strictly

perpendicular to the ground. If you need to move forward you need to change the angles of the beams. If you need to stop or go in reverse you need to change the angles to opposite. There could be complicated combination for making a turn or skid prevention.

 

[KipIngram]

:-| I find that video very, very hard to believe. Do you have any data on the power required to do what it's showing?

[Moreno]

:-| I find that video very, very hard to believe. Do you have any data on the power required to do what it's showing?

 

Do you think conversion efficiency of electricity to ultrasonic beam is very low?

I don't know about power of ultrasonic beamers, but know there are devices which are

capable to cut stone.