Vegan can help World Hunger

[dimreepr]

My sister who is a fitness trainer said when her clients complain of bloating, she recommends them to stop consuming dairy milk and other dairy products and they notice the positive effects immediately including less bloating. I also experienced the same thing with the bloating, I was drinking whey protein shakes and dairy milk almost every morning and once I replaced them with plantbased protein shake and almond milk, my waist is a lot smaller mostly all through out the day. I still eat meat though but had greatly reduced it. And I buy from a farm that raise animals ethically. And if for whatever reason I can't afford ethically raised meat, I would be on a well planned plant-based diet. I have a lot of respect for vegans, gosh I don't know how they can just completely eliminate meat from their diet, it tastes so good. I don't know if I can do it. But I do know that our food choices affect how we will leave Earth for the future generations.

 

America's best Olympic weightlifter is a vegan, I know how physically strong we are have something to do with our genes too, but daaaammmn:

 

http://www.mensjournal.com/health-fitness/articles/why-americas-best-olympic-weightlifter-is-vegan-w434203

 

Why haven't you answered my post in your other thread on this subject?

[ModernArtist25]

I'm sorry I must've missed it. What was the question??

[dimreepr]

http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/107316-killing-animals-and-spirituality/page-2

 

This thread post #31.

[ModernArtist25]

I don't see it

[dimreepr]

I don't see it

 

For context here is my argument:

There's not enough of you, to make any measurable difference, unless you all, collectively, do something about it; patting yourselves on the back only makes you feel better, the animals will still suffer

The point is, you'll never convert the world to a vegetarian diet (never mind a vegan diet); meat tastes too good and is beneficial to a well balanced diet, as it contains vitamin B12.

So to actually achieve something with your so called "ethical stance", you must take the middle ground and ensure the inevitable abuse is kept to a minimum.

 

And my question:

Well I guess you can eat dirt if want to survive; despite my, up to now, undisputed argument, you continue on the pat myself on the back approach; tell you what, if you can present a legitimate rebuttal, I will become a vegan.

 

My point is, your decision to became a vegan doesn't give you the moral high ground, anyone with good moral compass does whatever they can to do there bit, to try not to damage our world and they have roughly the same affect as you do; if you want the high ground, you've got to earn it.

[Tub]

My sister who is a fitness trainer said when her clients complain of bloating, she recommends them to stop consuming dairy milk and other dairy products and they notice the positive effects immediately including less bloating. I also experienced the same thing with the bloating, I was drinking whey protein shakes and dairy milk almost every morning and once I replaced them with plant-based protein shake and almond milk, my waist is a lot smaller mostly all through out the day. I still eat meat though but had greatly reduced it. And I buy from a farm that raise animals ethically. And if for whatever reason I can't afford ethically raised meat, I would be on a well planned plant-based diet. I have a lot of respect for vegans, gosh I don't know how they can just completely eliminate meat from their diet, it tastes so good. I don't know if I can do it. But I do know that our food choices affect how we will leave Earth for the future generations.

 

 

 

 

Is it not unnatural for any adult to drink milk at all? I can't think of another mammal that naturally needs to continue drinking milk after being weaned. Years ago, in the U.K., we were all encouraged to " Drinka Pinta Milk A Day" to make sure we got enough calcium, but that's not really necessary now as we can get enough calcium, ( around 700mg per day ), from other sources like bread, nuts, green vegetables, soya and, if you're not a Vegan, fish. I often just have water on my breakfast cereals too.

 

In regard to the OP, i don't think any particular diet will solve international food shortages affected by over-population, hostile environments and severe weather etc, but wouldn't it be wonderful if all the vast amounts of money wasted world-wide on " Defence Budgets " could be diverted to eliminating poverty? " Swords into ploughshares " would help to alleviate world hunger far more.

Edited June 25, 2017 by Tub

[ModernArtist25]

 

For context here is my argument:

 

 

And my question:

 

 

My point is, your decision to became a vegan doesn't give you the moral high ground, anyone with good moral compass does whatever they can to do there bit, to try not to damage our world and they have roughly the same affect as you do; if you want the high ground, you've got to earn it.

 

Vitamin B12 is not made by plants and not made by animals either. Its made by little microbes that blanket the earth. So, humans, you know, used to get all b12 needed presumably from drinking out of well water or mountain streams, but now we use chlorinated water supply to kill off any bacteria, so, we dont get a lot of B12 in our water anymore. We dont get a lot of cholera either, thats a good thing! But now that we live in a sanitized world, again, a good thing, and were not like our primate cousins, eating bugsfeces all day, vegans got to get B12 from somewhere. Farmers supplement animals with vitamin b12 but what vegans do is just take the supplements themselves. I don't know if the world would go vegan but I know that nobody probably thought slavery would end or that killing people at the arena for entertainment would be stopped.

 

Is it not unnatural for any adult to drink milk at all? I can't think of another mammal that naturally needs to continue drinking milk after being weaned.

 

Gosh you have a point there!

[DrKrettin]

Farmers supplement animals with vitamin b12

 

Can you give me a reference for this assertion please.

[EdEarl]

 

I think in this simple sentence lies the obvious truth. It is very difficult to nourish yourself healthy with a pure vegan diet. But it is surely not necessary to eat so much animal food as we are consuming. There are too many problems with so many people eating so much animal food as we do:

• too much meat is not healthy
• local environmental pollution due to superfluous manure, and its counterpart: loss of minerals and jungles in e.g. soja producing countries
• waste of resources: 1 kilo of meat costs about 8 kilo vegetable food, and many times the amount of water than when we would eat vegetables, corn, rice etc directly
• cows produce methane which is a strong greenhouse gas
• misuse of antibiotics, hormones etc.
• animal suffering in industrial livestock farming

It is not black of white: close to vegan would be best for all: human and non-human animals...

 

As for the topic: a vegan diet would help against world hunger, but there are surely many more factors that cause it, like stopping food waste and fair distribution of food amongst all people are just as important.

It is easy to prepare a healthful vegan diet; a salad, sweet potato, beans, corn and peppers are a reasonable staple diet. You'll need a B12 supplement, also.

 

The reason people say vegan might help feed the world, is that animal husbandry takes up far more land and water than a vegetable crop. Some land is not suited to growing vegetables, and can be used for cattle. However, vast amounts of land are used to grow animals for food that could be used to grow vegetables. Thus, people think changing that land use would produce more food and we could feed the world. There is more than a grain of truth to it; however, I think we already have enough food. Moreover, some things, lettuce for example, are now being grown indoors in automated factories, which requires very little land since factory farms can be built in tall buildings. We could even grow food on barges in the ocean. I think there several ways to assure adequate food without using more land, but land is still the most economically viable place to grow many crops, but that will change.

 

We just don't have the good sense to keep people from starving.

[ModernArtist25]

 

Can you give me a reference for this assertion please.

 

The farm animals' diets are supplemented with B12:

 

http://www1.agric.gov.ab.ca/$department/deptdocs.nsf/all/beef11680

 

https://www.agric.wa.gov.au/livestock-biosecurity/cobalt-deficiency-sheep-and-cattle

 

http://www.agriking.com/importance-of-cobalt-to-beef-dairy-cattle

[John Cuthber]

Just a thought.
What do you propose to do with the cold wet parts of the world where pretty much the only thing which grows is grass?

At the moment we use them to raise cattle or sheep (which can eat grass).
Here in the rich West we might be able to manage something with heated greenhouses and such.
Is your plan for those in poorer parts of the world that they simply starve?
Or do you have some other solution?

[ModernArtist25]

Just a thought.

What do you propose to do with the cold wet parts of the world where pretty much the only thing which grows is grass?

 

At the moment we use them to raise cattle or sheep (which can eat grass).

Here in the rich West we might be able to manage something with heated greenhouses and such.

Is your plan for those in poorer parts of the world that they simply starve?

Or do you have some other solution?

 

 

I think if they need the animals to survive because they have no access to the grocery store, then they gotta eat whatever is there for them. If they have no other options, they gotta do what they gotta do right.

[Moontanman]

 

 

I think if they need the animals to survive because they have no access to the grocery store, then they gotta eat whatever is there for them. If they have no other options, they gotta do what they gotta do right.

 

 

Exactly where do you think the stuff in a grocery store comes from?

[ModernArtist25]

Are you conscious of how your food got to your plate?

 

Perdue factory farm:

https://www.treehugg...ally-going.html

 

Tyson factory farm:

http://www.nbcnews.c...deo-f2D11627571

Edited June 25, 2017 by ModernArtist25

[zapatos]

 

Is it not unnatural for any adult to drink milk at all? I can't think of another mammal that naturally needs to continue drinking milk after being weaned.

 

Is it not unnatural for any mammals to chew down trees and build dams? I can't think of another mammal other than beavers that chew down trees and build dams.

Edited June 26, 2017 by zapatos

[Moontanman]

Are you conscious of how your food got to your plate?

 

Perdue factory farm:

https://www.treehugg...ally-going.html

 

Tyson factory farm:

http://www.nbcnews.c...deo-f2D11627571

 

 

So all you really have is basically propaganda?

[DrKrettin]

 

Are you conscious of how your food got to your plate?

 

 

 

Those stupid photos of farmland (prime land used for crops, by the way) are an insult to the intelligence of everybody here on a science forum - do you think we are unable to deal with the figures which you bandy about? How about responding to some posts instead?

[Thorham]

Those stupid photos of farmland (prime land used for crops, by the way) are an insult to the intelligence of everybody here on a science forum

Indeed, but so are some of the meat-head replies. You get them on EVERY forum where you post about veganism. Every last one of them (except vegan and vegetarian forums).

[Itoero]

Are you conscious of how your food got to your plate?

yes

I like to imagine what path the meat goes through before it goes in my mouth.

[Endy0816]

I think you would have to double check the numbers. Some things like yeast are fed on plant sugars.

 

Is generally true that ruminants aren't hugely efficient. They do allow us to get some use out of standard grass and what not though.

 

They don't necessarily eat the same type of corn, though we could obviously repurpose land.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Endy0816

[Sensei]

ModernArtist25,

1 acre is 4047 m^2

1/6 of it is 674 m^2

I class land can give you 4 kg/m^2 of potatoes per area (40 tons per ha)

IV class land 2 kg/m^2 (from what said farmers on net forums)

(28.6 tons/ha is this country average in 2016 according to government website)

One person can eat 0.5 kg of potatoes in meal * 365 days per year = 182 kg per year.

182 kg / 2 kg/m^2 = 91 m^2 of IV class land is needed

182 kg / 4 kg/m^2 = 45.5 m^2 of I class land is needed

674 m^2 is enough to have year of potatoes for 15 people (2700 kg), with just one harvest per year.

Obviously there are needed other vegetables, fruits, crops, in everyday diet, but I just wanted to show you idea how you can verify area needed.

0.3 kg pig cutlet per day is 110 kg per year. One adult pig has mass up to 350 kg. Enough for 3 people/year.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Sensei

[dimreepr]

Indeed, but so are some of the meat-head replies. You get them on EVERY forum where you post about veganism. Every last one of them (except vegan and vegetarian forums).

 

How about an example; unless these are empty words?

Edited June 26, 2017 by dimreepr

[Itoero]

I give raw meat to my dog

[ModernArtist25]

I give raw meat to my dog

 

I give raw meat to my cat. And I make sure it came from farms that raise animals ethically. If a cat can survive on a vegan diet, then I would feed it vegan diet, but cats are obligate carnivores. If that's what the cat needs for survival, then that's what it will get. It has no other option.

Edited June 26, 2017 by ModernArtist25

[dimreepr]

 

I give raw meat to my cat. And I make sure it came from farms that raise animals ethically. If a cat can survive on a vegan diet, then I would feed it vegan diet, but cats are obligate carnivores. If that's what the cat needs for survival, then that's what it will get. It has no other option.

 

LOL

 

Your ethics seem a little flexible and different for cats... Interesting...