Killing Animals and Spirituality?

[dimreepr]

By going vegan, people can reduce the impact of climate change, rainforest destruction, and pollution, while saving water and other precious resources. In fact, raising animals for food produces more greenhouse gas emissions than all of the cars, planes, and other forms of transportation combined. Vegans have my respect.

 

Facts on how animal agriculture affects the world that we live in:

http://www.cowspiracy.com/facts/

 

There's not enough of you, to make any measurable difference, unless you all, collectively, do something about it; patting yourselves on the back only makes you feel better, the animals will still suffer

The point is, you'll never convert the world to a vegetarian diet (never mind a vegan diet); meat tastes too good and is beneficial to a well balanced diet, as it contains vitamin B12.

 

So to actually achieve something with your so called "ethical stance", you must take the middle ground and ensure the inevitable abuse is kept to a minimum.

Edited June 24, 2017 by dimreepr

[Thorham]

There's not enough of you, to make any measurable difference

If everyone always thought that about everything, then nothing would ever change.

 

The point is, you'll never convert the world to a vegetarian diet (never mind a vegan diet)

You don't know that. Things can change radically over a couple of thousand years.

 

it contains vitamin B12.

Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria, not animals, and is therefore very easy to get from supplements.

[ModernArtist25]

 

The point is, you'll never convert the world to a vegetarian diet (never mind a vegan diet); meat tastes too good and is beneficial to a well balanced diet, as it contains vitamin B12.

.

Do you know that farmers supplement their animals with vitamin b12? So what vegans do is supplement that vitamin to themselves instead of killing the animals that's been given vitamin b12 to satisfy their taste buds.

[dimreepr]

If everyone always thought that about everything, then nothing would ever change.

 

 

You don't know that. Things can change radically over a couple of thousand years.

 

 

Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria, not animals, and is therefore very easy to get from supplements.

 

Oh please, given the context, WTF are you talking about?

 

You don't know that. Things can change radically over a couple of thousand years.

 

 

We'll discus it then, shall we?

 

Vitamin B12 is produced by bacteria, not animals, and is therefore very easy to get from supplements.

 

 

I think you'll find I said "a well balanced diet" by which I mean a 'natural' well balanced diet; we wouldn't want to loose the ability to extract it.

[ModernArtist25]

I think you'll find I said "a well balanced diet" by which I mean a 'natural' well balanced diet; we wouldn't want to loose the ability to extract it.

Humans have been getting their B12 from the dirt for hundreds of thousands of years by eating plants that still had bits of soil on them. Today however, we wash our fruits and veggies so well (and understandably so) that we no longer consume dirt or proper levels of B12.

Farmers supplement the animals with vitamin b12. While vegans take the vitamin themselves since they don't eat meat.

[dimreepr]

Do you know that farmers supplement their animals with vitamin b12? So what vegans do is supplement that vitamin to themselves instead of killing the animals that's been given vitamin b12 to satisfy their taste buds.

 

They don't have to, you do...

Humans have been getting their B12 from the dirt for hundreds of thousands of years by eating plants that still had bits of soil on them. Today however, we wash our fruits and veggies so well (and understandably so) that we no longer consume dirt or proper levels of B12.

Farmers supplement the animals with vitamin b12. While vegans take the vitamin themselves since they don't eat meat.

 

Well I guess you can eat dirt if want to survive; despite my, up to now, undisputed argument, you continue on the pat myself on the back approach; tell you what, if you can present a legitimate rebuttal, I will become a vegan.

[Thorham]

We'll discus it then, shall we?

 

What's there to discuss? That things can change? We all know that. What we don't know is how things will change.

 

I think you'll find I said "a well balanced diet" by which I mean a 'natural' well balanced diet; we wouldn't want to loose the ability to extract it.

 

Oh, come on! If your diet requires only vitamin B12 supplements because you don't want dirt on your vegetables, then I say it's not a bad diet.

 

Also, veganism isn't a diet. Once we master growing meat, this whole issue goes away.

[dimreepr]

 

What's there to discuss? That things can change? We all know that.

 

The changes.

 

 

Oh, come on! If your diet requires only vitamin B12 supplements because you don't want dirt on your vegetables, then I say it's not a bad diet.

 

Also, veganism isn't a diet. Once we master growing meat, this whole issue goes away.

 

This is confusing, as in "WTF are you talking about"?

Edited June 24, 2017 by dimreepr

[Thorham]

The changes.

I'm not going to speculate about possible changes that can occur over thousands of years.

 

This is confusing, as in "WTF are you talking about"?

 

Really? What don't you understand, then?

[dimreepr]

I'm not going to speculate about possible changes that can occur over thousands of years.

 

 

Really? What don't you understand, then?

 

??????? To be honest I don't think this is worth that many? let alone the time it took to type this reply.

[Thorham]

 

??????? To be honest I don't think this is worth that many? let alone the time it took to type this reply.

 

Oh well, whatever. You don't want to be vegan? Fine. No one's forcing you to be.

[dimreepr]

 

Oh well, whatever. You don't want to be vegan? Fine. No one's forcing you to be.

 

Ahhh... I get the confusion, you haven't read the thread...

[Thorham]

 

Ahhh... I get the confusion, you haven't read the thread...

 

Indeed.

[dimreepr]

 

Indeed.

 

maybe try that before you post.

[Moontanman]

 

What's there to discuss? That things can change? We all know that. What we don't know is how things will change.

 

 

Oh, come on! If your diet requires only vitamin B12 supplements because you don't want dirt on your vegetables, then I say it's not a bad diet.

 

Also, veganism isn't a diet. Once we master growing meat, this whole issue goes away.

 

The whole growing meat thing is interesting, I think we'll be able to do that on an industrial scale sooner than we might think. Crisper is the key!

 

 

The changes.

 

 

 

This is confusing, as in "WTF are you talking about"?

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat

 

Humans have been getting their B12 from the dirt for hundreds of thousands of years by eating plants that still had bits of soil on them. Today however, we wash our fruits and veggies so well (and understandably so) that we no longer consume dirt or proper levels of B12.

Farmers supplement the animals with vitamin b12. While vegans take the vitamin themselves since they don't eat meat.

 

 

You are welcome to eat all the dirt you want, I'm betting that will difficult to introduce to the general population. If you want to be a vegan, knock yourself out but to suggest everyone should be will take quite a bit more than the spiritual hand waving and bogus citations you have given so far.

 

Personally guys, I like vegetables quite a bit, not such a big fan of grains. But if the apocalypse comes all bets are off and hunger can cause you to do some weird things.. watch your back..

[dimreepr]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultured_meat

 

That wasn't his or my point, why bring it up?

[Phi for All]

Personally guys, I like vegetables quite a bit, not such a big fan of grains. But if the apocalypse comes all bets are off and hunger can cause you to do some weird things.. watch your back..

 

The NHS diet, the whole paleo movement, Atkins, Protein Power, they all back you up on this. Complex carbs via grains signals the production of insulin, and too much of that turns on a whole bunch of processes that are fairly negative for us modern folks who don't worry as much about surviving winter.

 

I'm a meat and veg guy, skip the potatoes and bread.

[Moontanman]

 

That wasn't his or my point, why bring it up?

 

 

Honestly I thought it was, sorry...

[dimreepr]

 

 

Honestly I thought it was, sorry...

 

No problem.

[Bender]

Humans have been getting their B12 from the dirt for hundreds of thousands of years by eating plants that still had bits of soil on them. Today however, we wash our fruits and veggies so well (and understandably so) that we no longer consume dirt or proper levels of B12.

Farmers supplement the animals with vitamin b12. While vegans take the vitamin themselves since they don't eat meat.

Citation required.

 

Vegans aren't all good, though. There are plenty of examples of babies dying from a vegan diet. Other babies die from neglect too, but these vegan parents usually care for their children but are badly informed, partly because of questionable anti-meat propaganda.

For the ill-informed, eating meat is safer and healthier.

 

I'm not going to speculate about possible changes that can occur over thousands of years.

So rather than doing anything about it, you would rather wait a thousand years for the off chance that it changes in the direction you want it to change?

[Handy andy]

All living things ultimately wind up being food for something else. All the molecules are recycled and therefore reborn as new forms of life, is that spiritual, I am not sure.

 

If your average person on the street had to kill his own dinner, they would quickly become vegetarian or become desensitized to killing. The way humans kill animals is usually quick and relatively painless, if you ever watch a lion kill something, it aint quick and it aint pretty.

 

For most of the food chain, animals(humans included) it is just a question of eating something without considering it was ever a living creature, with feelings and a family and hopes for the future.

 

To meet or not to meat that is that the question

[Thorham]

So rather than doing anything about it, you would rather wait a thousand years for the off chance that it changes in the direction you want it to change?

 

I wasn't talking about not doing anything about it, I was talking about pointless speculation.

[Handy andy]

A large part of the human race is already vegetarian, and worship cows rather than eat them. Is this the sort of spirituality being talked about here, or is it just to do with not hurting or mistreating living things unnecessarily, before they are harvested.

 

Perhaps the executions, beheadings or chopping body parts off prisoners under the guise of religion is not spiritual, but having a priest alongside or some religious fanatic makes more spiritually beneficial. Under many of the old testament based religions halal food is required, which is killed slowly, or animals are sacrificed, in front of each other, are these examples of killing animals and spirituality.

 

If something is going to be killed, is it best to do it quickly? and in the case of an animal without it knowing what is about to happen. In the case of humans executing or maiming each other, are they just being human (animals) rather than humane.

 

In the case of assisted suicide when an animal or human may want to die is this spiritual.? Is it spiritual to let something die slowly or to put it out of its misery quickly.?

Would it then be considered spiritual to eat the meat of the animal you meet and turn into meat?.

[ModernArtist25]

Handy andy, those are interesting questions. At the end of the day, righteousness is subjective isn't it?

Citation required.

Vegans aren't all good, though. There are plenty of examples of babies dying from a vegan diet. Other babies die from neglect too, but these vegan parents usually care for their children but are badly informed, partly because of questionable anti-meat propaganda.

For the ill-informed, eating meat is safer and healthier.

 

 

You see, we never really read a headline that said judge convicts parents after baby dies from omnivorous diet. Ask yourself, why? It’s sad that some people read these articles about baby dying from vegan diet and can’t think critically. How many vegans are there in the world? That’s like 1 percent. How many people out there are actually raising their child to be vegan? Very small percentage. How many babies in the world die because of health related issues? It’s way more than 1 percent. And what type of diet these babies are on? Most babies are on an omnivorous diet. But you never see those headlines in the news.

 

This reminds me of the time when a vegan had died trying to climb Mount Everest and the media made a big deal about it and blamed it on a vegan diet. But they never acknowledged all the vegans who have successfully reached the top of Mount Everest. And every other person who has failed and died trying to climb Mount Everest, 99% of them were meat eaters. That’s why when reading articles, always ask yourself why. These articles you see about the babies dying from vegan diet, it is because the parents are not feeding them enough and babies are underweight, and we are not given enough details of how much these parents are feeding their children.

 

Can you tell that a lot of these animal products industries have financial ties to the media industry? After all it’s the media that promotes their products right? McDonald’s, Burger King, KFC, Papa John’s, you name it. If the animal products industry see that veganism seems to be on the rise, they create fear and doubt in the people to stir them off from choosing a vegan diet.

Citation required.

 

The farm animals' diets are supplemented with B12:

http://www1.agric.go...f/all/beef11680

 

https://www.agric.wa...heep-and-cattle

 

http://www.agriking....ef-dairy-cattle

 

Edited June 26, 2017 by ModernArtist25

[dimreepr]

 

Handy andy, those are interesting questions. At the end of the day, righteousness is subjective isn't it?

 

You see, we never really read a headline that said judge convicts parents after baby dies from omnivorous diet. Ask yourself, why? It’s sad that some people read these articles about baby dying from vegan diet and can’t think critically. How many vegans are there in the world? That’s like 1 percent. How many people out there are actually raising their child to be vegan? Very small percentage. How many babies in the world die because of health related issues? It’s way more than 1 percent. And what type of diet these babies are on? Most babies are on an omnivorous diet. But you never see those headlines in the news.

 

This reminds me of the time when a vegan had died trying to climb Mount Everest and the media made a big deal about it and blamed it on a vegan diet. But they never acknowledged all the vegans who have successfully reached the top of Mount Everest. And every other person who has failed and died trying to climb Mount Everest, 99% of them were meat eaters. That’s why when reading articles, always ask yourself why. These articles you see about the babies dying from vegan diet, it is because the parents are not feeding them enough and babies are underweight, and we are not given enough details of how much these parents are feeding their children.

 

Can you tell that a lot of these animal products industries have financial ties to the media industry? After all it’s the media that promotes their products right? McDonald’s, Burger King, KFC, Papa John’s, you name it. If the animal products industry see that veganism seems to be on the rise, they create fear and doubt in the people to stir them off from choosing a vegan diet.

 

The farm animals' diets are supplemented with B12:

 

http://www1.agric.go...f/all/beef11680

 

https://www.agric.wa...heep-and-cattle

 

http://www.agriking....ef-dairy-cattle

 

 

 

Still doesn't answer my question though, doesn't even address my question.

A large part of the human race is already vegetarian, and worship cows rather than eat them. Is this the sort of spirituality being talked about here, or is it just to do with not hurting or mistreating living things unnecessarily, before they are harvested.

 

Perhaps the executions, beheadings or chopping body parts off prisoners under the guise of religion is not spiritual, but having a priest alongside or some religious fanatic makes more spiritually beneficial. Under many of the old testament based religions halal food is required, which is killed slowly, or animals are sacrificed, in front of each other, are these examples of killing animals and spirituality.

 

If something is going to be killed, is it best to do it quickly? and in the case of an animal without it knowing what is about to happen. In the case of humans executing or maiming each other, are they just being human (animals) rather than humane.

 

In the case of assisted suicide when an animal or human may want to die is this spiritual.? Is it spiritual to let something die slowly or to put it out of its misery quickly.?

Would it then be considered spiritual to eat the meat of the animal you meet and turn into meat? .

 

This is in ethics not religion; you're comparing apples and oranges, I get what you're trying to say but history is too nebulous an example to make your point.