Religious tangent from Alternatives to Evolution Theory

[bimbo36]

The cube , the electro magnetism , The mosquito like propulsion of electro magnetic waves , the spectrum , the seven colors .Looks a bit like science to me .

[bimbo36]

Why i tried too post things from the holy books is that , i think even god agrees with the theory of evolution .But as always god has this tendency to speak in clues .

God is supposed to be the creator of the atoms , the gravity and all that biological things that followed .

 

If you let me explain the things the way i see it for at least once , it would be cool . If there was not any scientific sides to these holy books , nobody would believe anything .There has to be some science behind all these .

 

Lets start with a picture of atom .This looks like an electron right ? This had to come from somewhere and we don't know how exactly these were created . I know this is not the exact picture of an electron where things are attached like this , but this somehow gives me an idea of electrons , protons , electro magnetism etc

 

 

 

The thing in the macca is called a Cube, I didn't know it was the cube itself , in arabic it was called kaaba

 

 

 

 

"Surely Allah is not ashamed to set forth any parable- (that of) a gnat or any thing above that; then as for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord, and as for those who disbelieve, they say: What is it that Allah means by this parable: He causes many to err by it and many He leads aright by it! but He does not cause to err by it (any) except the transgressors," [Al-Baqara (The Cow) 26]

 

 

 

Read in the name of your Lord Who created.

Created man from a clot of congealed blood.

Read, and your Lord is Most Generous.

Who taught knowledge by the pen,

taught man what he did not know
No! [but] indeed, man transgresses
Because he sees himself self-sufficient.
Indeed, to your Lord is the return.
Have you seen the one who forbids
A servant when he prays?
Have you seen if he is upon guidance
Or enjoins righteousness?
Have you seen if he denies and turns away -
Does he not know that Allah sees?
No! If he does not desist, We will surely drag him by the forelock -
A lying, sinning forelock.
Then let him call his associates;
We will call the angels of Hell.
No! Do not obey him. But prostrate and draw near [to Allah ].

 

I think therefore religion has a lot of strange science involved in it .

 

Even the whole quran sounds like a humming mosquito if you listen to it carefully .

 

What does it has to do with evolution ?

 

 

Read in the name of your Lord Who created.

Created man from a clot of congealed blood

 

 

Quran chapter 23 ,

And certainly did We create man from an extract of clay.
Then We placed him as a sperm-drop in a firm lodging
Then We made the sperm-drop into a clinging clot, and We made the clot into a lump [of flesh], and We made [from] the
lump, bones, and We covered the bones with flesh; then We developed him into another creation. So blessed is Allah, the
best of creators.

 

All this in a quran which is 1400 years old .

Lol , i thought this thread was gone

Edited June 25, 2017 by bimbo36

[Strange]

The cube , the electro magnetism , The mosquito like propulsion of electro magnetic waves , the spectrum , the seven colors .Looks a bit like science to me .

 

Nope. Just making old vague stories fit with what we currently understand. Someone could have said the same 100 years ago, and their claims would now be wrong because science has moved on. Changing the interpretation of the stories to fit current understanding does not prove they contain some eternal truth. Quite the opposite in fact.

 

Edit: sorry. Just saw the mod note (cross-posted).

Edited June 25, 2017 by Strange

[Prometheus]

If there was not any scientific sides to these holy books , nobody would believe anything .There has to be some science behind all these .

 

So because people believe in Scientology there must be something correct about our souls being possessed by aliens. Right? You better go to auditing (please don't).

 

 

The thing in the macca is called a Cube, I didn't know it was the cube itself , in arabic it was called kaaba

 

Humans can construct cubes, therefore 'Allah did it' is a viable alternative to evolution? You will have to run that by me again.

 

 

The cube , the electro magnetism , The mosquito like propulsion of electro magnetic waves , the spectrum , the seven colors .Looks a bit like science to me .

 

Science is a process, not an object we can directly look at. Microscopes might be a symbol of science, but they are not science, just as stethoscopes are a symbol of medicine, but they themselves are not medicine.

 

It's interesting that the second nation that will stop teaching evolution is Turkey another Muslim country (Saudi Arabia being the first). I thought the USA would win that dubious honour.

 

Trying to conflate science and religion is a bad idea.

You hold science back. You hold religion back. You keep humanity in the dark ages.

[bimbo36]

I am just trying to see an alternative side to the usual spirituality . I believe in democracy and i believe in the evolution of the human mind to come up with better ideas .

 

But where was biology 1400 years ago ?

[Moontanman]

The cube , the electro magnetism , The mosquito like propulsion of electro magnetic waves , the spectrum , the seven colors .Looks a bit like science to me .

 

 

For your idea to hold water you would have to show a religious assertion that changed science, this has not happened. All of these so called science facts described by religion are ad hoc after the fact interpretations. It's easy to try and make scripture fit science, I often refer to the idea that the bible confirms the notions of the ancient astronaut crowd. I think there is a passage in ezekiel that they have interpreted to mean an alien spacecraft. Could it be so? Sure, but it's highly improbable and to suggest it is fact is dishonest..

[Prometheus]

I am just trying to see an alternative side to the usual spirituality . I believe in democracy and i believe in the evolution of the human mind to come up with better ideas .

 

But where was biology 1400 years ago ?

 

In turn:

 

What is the 'usual spirituality'? Why does it need an alternative?

 

Science is not a democracy: consensus may form a parliament but evidence is a dictator.

 

Nothing wrong with coming up with better ideas: let's look forward to new and better ideas then, rather than clutching to the past.

 

It mostly still relied on Greek and Roman knowledge in the Western world. Unsure about other civilisations. What has this got to do with God did it alternatives to evolutionary theory?

[Delta1212]

The cube , the electro magnetism , The mosquito like propulsion of electro magnetic waves , the spectrum , the seven colors .Looks a bit like science to me .

There are not actually seven colors. This division was created by Newton because he thought the number seven was mystical.

 

In reality, electromagnetic radiation forms a, more or less, continuous spectrum, and even biologically the colors we perceive don't fit neatly into seven categories in any meaningful or objective way.

[bimbo36]

There is nothing wrong with the orange side of the spectrum and a little bit of breathing techniques .And i am not here to change that sort of spirituality .It is not going to change either .

 

These are all the things that was said in Quran 1400 years ago .

 

 

“Do those who disbelieve not see that the heavens and the earth were sewn together and then We unstitched them and that We made from water every living thing? So will they not then believe?” (21:30)

“Allah created every living creature from water.” (24:45)

 

 

“Allah created every living creature from water.” (24:45)

 

 

“And it is He Who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and flowing rivers; and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two (male and female); He draws the night as a veil over the day. Behold, verily in these things are Signs for those who reflect” (13:3)

 

 

“He Who has made for you the earth like a carpet spread out, has enabled you to go about therein by roads and channels, and has sent down water from the sky. With it We have produced diverse pairs of plants.” (20:53)

 

 

“Your Lord revealed to the bees: ‘Build dwellings in the mountains and the trees, and also in the structures which men erect. Then eat from every kind of fruit and travel the paths of your Lord, which have been made easy for you to follow.’ From inside them comes a drink of varying colors, containing healing for mankind. There is certainly a Sign in that for people who reflect.” (16:68-69)

 

Was this like Biology 1400 years ago ?

 

 

 

Edited June 25, 2017 by bimbo36

[Prometheus]

Was this like Biology 1400 years ago ?

 

Greek and Roman knowledge was far superior than some book telling bees to make homes. Aristotle classified 540 animal species, and dissected at least 50. Quranic scripture was near a 1000 year step backwards even when it was first written.

 

And it's a little discourteous to 'explain the things the way i see it for at least once', then not respond to people who attend your platform. Would you at least try answering some of the questions and points put to you? Else why are you on discussion forum?

[bimbo36]

There are not actually seven colors. This division was created by Newton because he thought the number seven was mystical.

 

In reality, electromagnetic radiation forms a, more or less, continuous spectrum, and even biologically the colors we perceive don't fit neatly into seven categories in any meaningful or objective way.

 

Isn't Electro magnetism like an advanced branch of physics .I was simply trying to tell that things like all that is in the Quran which is a 1400 year old book

 

 

Isaac Newton (25 December 1642 – 20 March 1727)[1] was, as considered by others within his own lifetime, an insightful and erudite theologian.[2][3][4] He wrote many works that would now be classified as occult studies and religious tracts dealing with the literal interpretation of the Bible.[5]

 

Newton’s conception of the physical world provided a stable model of the natural world that would reinforce stability and harmony in the civic world. Newton saw a monotheistic God as the masterful creator whose existence could not be denied in the face of the grandeur of all creation.[6][7] Although born into an Anglican family, by his thirties Newton held a Christian faith that, had it been made public, would not have been considered orthodox by mainstream Christianity;[8] in recent times he has been described as a heretic.[9]

 

 

 

Greek and Roman knowledge was far superior than some book telling bees to make homes. Aristotle classified 540 animal species, and dissected at least 50. Quranic scripture was near a 1000 year step backwards even when it was first written.

 

And it's a little discourteous to 'explain the things the way i see it for at least once', then not respond to people who attend your platform. Would you at least try answering some of the questions and points put to you? Else why are you on discussion forum?

 

First of all English is not my first language , I am from India . Which is why i am taking some time to reply to the posts .

 

I didn't know that about Aristotle .

 

What am i supposed to say here , that Quran is wrong ?

[Delta1212]

No, it just isn't science.

 

Science is a particular methodology for acquiring knowledge, and also refers to any knowledge acquired via that methodology.

 

The methodology is as follows: Make an observation about the world. Come up with an idea that explains that observation. Develop a test you can do such that your idea would predict the outcome of that test and, if the test does not give the predicted result, it proves your idea wrong. Observe the result of the test. Repeat.

 

Scriptural knowledge does not follow this pattern. Regardless of whether or not any of it is true, it is not science. To qualify as science requires making use of the scientific method. It is not enough to merely make reference to some aspect of the natural world that has also been described using science.

[bimbo36]

Well i was just trying to talk about some religious perspectives about some science and biology , which is in the books .I guess that was one of the reason a post ended up in the off-topic Religion Section of the science forum

 

Anyways thanks for the replies

[Strange]

There is nothing wrong with the orange side of the spectrum and a little bit of breathing techniques .And i am not here to change that sort of spirituality .It is not going to change either .

 

These are all the things that was said in Quran 1400 years ago .

 

 

 

 

 

 

Was this like Biology 1400 years ago ?

 

 

I suspect biology was a lot more accurate than that.

 

Posting images instead of text makes discussion very difficult but, I will try:

 

"The sun and moon move"

 

Everyone thought this. For most of human history. They could see the Sun and Moon moving across the sky. There is no insight here from your book. Someone has clumsily retro-fitted modern science (that the Sun moves through the galaxy) to try and make those words fit. But those words just describe what everyone thought at the time.

 

Isn't Electro magnetism like an advanced branch of physics .I was simply trying to tell that things like all that is in the Quran which is a 1400 year old book

 

And you were being shown that it is wrong in some details.

Lets start with a picture of atom .This looks like an electron right ? This had to come from somewhere and we don't know how exactly these were created . I know this is not the exact picture of an electron where things are attached like this , but this somehow gives me an idea of electrons , protons , electro magnetism etc

 

You posted a picture of a flower, not an atom. So none of this makes any sense.

 

 

 

The thing in the macca is called a Cube, I didn't know it was the cube itself , in arabic it was called kaaba

 

That has nothing to do with science.

[bimbo36]

OK , anyway i have decided to buy this book

 

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=UjWTBQAAQBAJ

 

Looks like a good read .

[imatfaal]

!

Moderator Note

 

Bimbo36 for your guidance; proselyting quotes from your holy book of choice are NEVER acceptable. I have trashed the religious follow up in the biology forum. Even the religion forum is for discussion of religion - not for conversion, nor for proclamations of faith. In a rational investigation an injunction from a holy book has no place and will nearly always be met with scorn and often with modnotes and warnings.

 

[Prometheus]

What am i supposed to say here , that Quran is wrong ?

 

Acknowledge the Quran is not a credible source on biology (or science in general).

 

 

Looks like a good read .

 

Why don't you just learn some actual astrophysics? That way you can decide upon the accuracy of the Quran for yourself rather than trying to confirm what you already believe with pseudo-science.

[Strange]

 

Acknowledge the Quran is not a credible source on biology (or science in general).

 

 

 

Why don't you just learn some actual astrophysics? That way you can decide upon the accuracy of the Quran for yourself rather than trying to confirm what you already believe with pseudo-science.

This.

OK , anyway i have decided to buy this book

 

https://books.google.co.in/books?id=UjWTBQAAQBAJ

 

Looks like a good read .

Only if you have no interest in science.

[bimbo36]

!

Moderator Note

 

Bimbo36 for your guidance; proselyting quotes from your holy book of choice are NEVER acceptable. I have trashed the religious follow up in the biology forum. Even the religion forum is for discussion of religion - not for conversion, nor for proclamations of faith. In a rational investigation an injunction from a holy book has no place and will nearly always be met with scorn and often with modnotes and warnings.

 

 

No problems imatfaal , This is almost the first time i am making a Religion related post this big in any forum .Wont happen again .

[John Cuthber]

I am just trying to see an alternative side to the usual spirituality . I believe in democracy and i believe in the evolution of the human mind to come up with better ideas .

 

But where was biology 1400 years ago ?

 

 

1400 years ago biology was not where it is today.

1400 years ago religion was exactly where it is today.

 

That's the problem.

Religion can't learn.

 

And, because it can't change it can't get rid of an idea (like creationism) that is known to be wrong.- it just has to lie about it.

Edited June 25, 2017 by John Cuthber

[Moontanman]

The cube , the electro magnetism , The mosquito like propulsion of electro magnetic waves , the spectrum , the seven colors .Looks a bit like science to me .

 

 

If you take the bits that sound sciency you should also have to explain the bits that are absolute horse feathers. Like the sun setting in a puddle of water, muhammad splitting the moon or riding a flying horse into heaven. There are more but those would seem to be more than enough to show just how untenable the idea of a holy book sounding sciency really is.

[beecee]

Well i was just trying to talk about some religious perspectives about some science and biology , which is in the books .I guess that was one of the reason a post ended up in the off-topic Religion Section of the science forum

 

Anyways thanks for the replies

All I will do is offer a video of who in my opinion is one of the greatest educators of the 20th century..........

 

Your answer of course is given at around the 1 minute mark

[Damateur]

On 6/25/2017 at 3:59 PM, John Cuthber said:

And, because it can't change it can't get rid of an idea (like creationism) that is known to be wrong.- it just has to lie about it.

   Amusingly, Kent Hovind is a YEC (Young Earth Creationist) who eventually started lying about evolution saying that natural selection was not a part of evolution. I guess he got tired of recognizing natural selection as a real thing which undermined his claims about evolution so he started claiming it was separate. Basically, a lot like the attempts to "show" that the Quran has science in it.

 

   About the Kaaba in Mecca, there is a holy item called the "Black Stone" which is believed to be a meteorite (although that might not be true) which is embedded in the wall of the building. The building is holy because of the Black Stone, not because it is vaguely cubical.

[bimbo36]

This is a very good documentary