Jealousy

[Royston]

Is there a neurological explanation as to why people feel jealous. Is it down to a specific chemical in the brain such as endorphin's being released when someone is happy, or is there just a psychological explanation maybe having low self esteem. It seems quite a specific feeling which is why I was wondering if it was down to one chemical.

 

I read a while ago they synthesized a pill that could eradicate the feeling of guilt. It was mainly for people who had taken someones life in an accident. Is it possible for jealousy to be treated in the same way, maybe it could help in relationships.

 

And yes I am feeling a little jealous at the moment, but I can't seem to attribute it to a low self esteem, I feel really quite good...until I think about it !

[YT2095]

it`s a psychological reason alone.

there are Physiological "Symptoms" and chemical differences in the brain, but that`s a reaction and not causal.

[lan418]

It's better to talk about your jealousy than trying to win it with a pill anyways. What is making you jealous if you dont mind me asking

[Flareon]

Certain types of jealousy may be neurological. Here's my take on jealousy.

 

A rather primitive tyoe of jealousy can arise between the sexes. For instance, men are biologically wired to maximize his genetic legacy, by not only acquiring females with whom to mate, but also by competing against other males. A man who witnesses his wife in the arms of another man will experience a surge of testosterone and adrenaline which will help to reestablish his dominance, by force if necessary. The reaction is adaptive and will probably help him win out by increasing his aggression level. This physical arousal can be interpreted by the brain as jealousy. The testosterone-jealousy connection may explain why steroid users can display "roid-rage" one symptom being paranoid jealousy.

 

Women feel jealous too, and by similar reasoning. If a man strays from one women for another, the former will feel aggression at the prospect of her mate not being there to protect and support her and her offspring. The aggression will help to chase away "that hoochie."

 

This is just the simple biological aspect of one type of jealousy. Other types have social and psychological contexts which vary from person to person.

[lan418]

yea, and it just depends on how you look at things. Trust and insecurity are main psychological reasons of jealousy.

[Royston]

Thanks everyone, the reason I felt jealous was due to an ex-girlfriend visiting. Although I've been enjoying my independance and concentrating on starting a company and writing music, I was bombarded by these old feelings I had for her. Our body language towards each other is mixed, and confusing but there is definitely chemistry (for want of a better word) in the air.

 

As the frustration of not being able to express these feelings through fear of driving her away it changed into jealousy, and this seemed to grow when she left. I guess I wanted a scientific explanation to see how irrational I was being, which is a topic I'm going to go further into on another thread (not specifically concerning jealousy though.)

 

I find it interesting that people are still bound by such primitive instincts despite how informed they are about these instincts. And no, I certainly wouldn't take a pill to diminish these feelings, I think their much better dealt with by tackling the problems head on. And yes, I've talked to my friends about the root cause, but they also came to the same conclusions, that it's quite a primitive response attributed to a number of biological reactions. None of my friends are neurologists, which motivated me to find a more neurological explanation...ug.

[Firedragon52]

Are the exact chemicals, that cause jealousy, known?

[coquina]

Jealousy is not limited to humans. Pets, especially dogs and cats, feel jealous too. My office assistant sometimes brings her dog to work - my lab, Sadie, is always in the office. Sadie likes Dixie, and will play with her, but if I pet Dixie, Sadie will run over and push Dixie's head away from my hand, and put hers there, whilst giving me a "How could you?" look.

 

Therefore - I think it is definitely a "hardwired" emotion.

[Royston]

Are the exact chemicals, that cause jealousy, known?

 

I guess adrenaline is released, which causes that gut feeling, what other chemicals come into play...I'm not sure.

 

I also found out that what I was experiencing was actually envy, as jealousy is only attributed to something you already have. As she was my ex girlfriend I was envious of whoever was going to be the next man in her life.

 

Just for the record we havn't spoken for a couple of months now and I'm a firm believer now of 'out of sight, out of mind'. I guess clean splits are best unless the break-up is very much mutual.

[reverse]

 

 

And yes I am feeling a little jealous at the moment' date=' but I can't seem to attribute it to a low self esteem, I feel really quite good...until I think about it ![/quote']

 

so what does this sensation feel like?

is it like anger?

or has it a more subtle mix of other sensations thrown in there?

 

do you feel you have a unspoken agreement with the person who triggers these jealous feelings within you.

what is the nature of that agreement, when was it made and are you sure you both agreed to the same thing?

[LucidDreamer]

I think it's often impossible to separate the physical from the psychological; they are too interconnected. The feelings and physiological symptoms of jealousy, like any other psychological response, result from a myriad of hormones, neurotransmitters, specific stimuli, and memories. Jealousy is a normal mammalian response and is in no way abnormal, and although it may be "primative" it is something that has always been part of the human condition and will always be part of the make-up of homo Sapiens.

 

Snail, you mentioned that you think it's strange that you are felling jealous when things are going so well for you with your new business and music, but I wouldn't think that would make much of a difference. If you really want to get over a girl, the best thing to do is find another girl or few. Feelings tend to linger for ex's when you don't have someone else to take their place. Take a page from Miss Haversham and throw away the cake.

[Royston]

so what does this sensation feel like?

is it like anger?

or has it a more subtle mix of other sensations thrown in there?

 

do you feel you have a unspoken agreement with the person who triggers these jealous feelings within you.

what is the nature of that agreement' date=' when was it made and are you sure you both agreed to the same thing?[/quote']

 

I realise now that the reason I felt this way was due to her nagging and belittling. She picked up on the fact I still had feelings for her at the time, and she used it as a power trip. I was also still very attracted to her physically at the time and so I tried to ignore the way she was towards me, it was only in retrospect that I realised how badly she was treating me.

 

I built her up as something she wasn't and subsequently made myself feel small, and not worthy. I felt good because she was still in my life, but it was tainted with the envy that she could go off with someone else and there was nothing I could do about it, so more frustration than anger.

 

We did agree that it was best for her to go home and make her own life, but her words when she left was 'if you find someone else that you're thinking about marrying for christ sake I need to know' which is unfair. I was slightly hanging on the whim that we would eventually get married...she mentioned marriage only a month into the relationship. The last time we saw each other she avoided questions about our lives crossing and collaborating (we both write music) and that's when I realised she had no such plans at all.

 

I did get quite angry that I've always been there for her, and I've always been understanding to her problems, but as soon as I had a problem she didn't want to know (this was after the split),Probably because I felt more for her than she did for me, but that's really beside the point, she wasn't even being a friend.

 

Unfortunately I've told her exactly how I feel about her now, and it's ended on a low note...but damn it felt good at the time. I see and hear so many people not sticking up for themselves in relationships as they're scared of the consequences and blinded by physical attraction, and all it does is beat you down. It's been a good learning experience.

[Royston]

This really needs to be in the psychology section.

[Royston]

If you really want to get over a girl, the best thing to do is find another girl or few. Feelings tend to linger for ex's when you don't have someone else to take their place. Take a page from Miss Haversham and throw away the cake.

 

There's a lot of truth in that...I've had offers, but due to the emotional baggage I've been carrying around I wasn't interested. I can safely say that's changed now.

[rakuenso]

Lol how us males have deviated from the standard courtship procedures where we just went roaming around and had sex with everything.

[Royston]

Lol how us males have deviated from the standard courtship procedures where we just went roaming around and had sex with everything.

 

Ah, the good ol' days...if you overlook the word 'everything'...that's just wrong.

[ronblue]

Information that is discrepant is painful. We form weighted histories of the past which we use to filter incoming information. Discrepant information gets out attention and causes arousal. If we interpret the arousal state as jealousness we are jealous.

 

For example you see your girl friend kissing and hugging a guy. That information is discrepant. You could interpret the information as interesting or discrepant rather than I must not be adequate for her.

 

If the boy she is kissing is her brother then you will not be jealous.

 

You determine what you feel by what you think about your self and your perceptions.

 

You are what you think you are and you become what you think about.

[ashennell]

Information that is discrepant is painful. We form weighted histories of the past which we use to filter incoming information. Discrepant information gets out attention and causes arousal.

 

I'm a little confused. You described physical pain in the same way in this message here on another thread.

 

Technically speaking pain is discrepant information on two or more channels of information relative to a weighted history of the past.

 

Are you trying to lump together physical pain from nociceptors and psychological "pain" that leads to things like jealousy or anger. This makes little sense, nociception is not filtered by a weighted history of the past. I'm not quite sure that anything is. Can you not distinquish between these two things?

 

you also say:

If we interpret the arousal state as jealousness we are jealous.

 

Dosn't this just mean 'if we are jealous then we are jealous'?

[ronblue]

Pain can have a real begining neurologically. Pain also has psychological components. For example if you are busy you do not have time to feel the pain.

 

It is comon in combat to be shot and not know it because you are so busy fighting that you do not feel the pain.

 

Pain is also learned by social definition. People going through initiation ceremonies can translate the stimulation as pleasure, because they are successfully paying the price to be man.

 

Pain can generate pleasure as an opponent-process. The pain of running can result in a powerful high, addicting you to running.

 

Nerve cells can transmit more than one transmitter at a time. This means that the beginning of the stimulus is not its end since there is global processing at all times.

 

For example if you numb the nerves for the tongue, the psychological report for sweet will double in reported intensity when in fact it can only be one half.

 

Are we jealous because we are jealous? No we are jealous because we have interpreted a physicial response that we are feeling is a particular emotion. That interpretation is due to our weighted history of the past and social referencing.

 

Ron Blue

[dttom]

First, there's none of the brain district which is responsible for the formation of the jealous, again, jsut like any other emotional feeling, it's a complex result formed by the actions of different brain districts.

Jealous at least include four other emotions: about fear, sexual emotion, aggression and depression. Just we simplify the text. Why someone want something? One of the reason may be that person is afraid of something. Because he is afraid of lacking something, he need or want something to maintain his thinking, so this explain that jealous include fear. The second one is sexual emotion, someone has just mentioned, so I won't make a further explanation. And the following is the aggression, if someone want something, of course he has to fight for it. But if he fail, and though he has tried lots of times, he is still fail, then he started to be depressed, depression covered the releasing of neurotransmitters. So, in summary, I think the formation includes the outside environmental factors and the inside neuro-actions: when someone recieve soem certain outside stimulants, his internal systems start to be activated, no finally, he feels jealous of something.

[Royston]

You seem to be getting it the wrong way round. Jealousy is (as already stated) a 'hardwired' instinctive reaction that has a number of psychological and physiological attributes. Jealousy doesn't manifest through anger or fear, it's an inherent reaction to basically say 'hands off', and people go through the motions to reassure themselves that there is no need to feel jealous.

 

This usually has negative consequences...and is interpreted as mistrust, low self esteem et.c If jealousy was dealt with for what it is, with sympathy and reassurance then it could probably be quashed before it gets out of control or endures throughout the relationship. (I'm using human relationships as an example as it's easier to identify with.)

 

The consequences of not dealing with jealousy could lead to depression, but you shouldn't get the two confused.

 

Just for the record we started to talk to each other over messenger a few weeks ago, and got on famously...typical, and I did take back that her company was similar to having a brain aneurysm . Though I'm going to get my love life sorted before I think about seeing her again...which at the moment I just havn't got time for. All this really seems very much in the past for me now.

 

I wonder what she'd make of all this if she stumbled across this site...yeah I'm talking about you, ya daft fickle bint

[dttom]

Do you think jealousy is an emotion, or a complex result of other emotions? From my point, it's a complex result, I find this in a book.

Why someone wants something as he sees another has that thing? One of the reason is he is afraid of lacking that thing. After this idea has developed in his mind, he then will try to get it, if you want to gain something from the hands of other, you must fight, that's why aggression is included in jealousy. Also, depression can also be one of the component of jealousy. You've already mentioned that, low self esteem can cause jealousy. Then do you think a patient who suffered from depression will have a high self esteem? Low self esteem can be a symptom of depression. Depression can cause jealousy, but not by itself, when fear, aggression and depression occur together, the feeling of jealous will almost be felt. The point I've to state is, when different emotions cooperate together and lead a person has another feeling, then it can be consider as a new emotional feeling, but is caused by its components. Jealousy is a complex result of emotions but actually, there's not an emotion called jealousy caused within a body.

[Royston]

What book ? You don't seem to understand what jealousy is...it's attributed to something you already have.

[dttom]

You felt jealous, and also envy, right?

[Royston]

Jealousy and envy are two different things...admittedly I confused envy with jealousy at the start of the thread, but we're now discussing what jealousy is, and as far as I can see everyone's done a fine job of explaining exactly what jealousy is.

 

I guess the thread's a little confusing, as my example of jealousy isn't jealousy, but I did try to make that clear, so I apologise if you've been mislead.

 

You seem to be talking about something more causal, which can make for good debate, but not what this thread is aiming to clarify. Hope that clears things up a bit ?