organic experiments

[akcapr]

does anyone know some interesting synthesis/experiments with organic compounds? and im just a beginner so i dont have much knowledge or experience with this field. thx

[woelen]

does anyone know some interesting synthesis/experiments with organic compounds? and im just a beginner so i dont have much knowledge or experience with this field. thx

What organic compounds are you referring at. Beware, organic chemistry is not the easiest to deal with. Organic reactions frequently are slow, incomplete and frequently not spectacular to see (input is colorless and output still is colorless). If you want to appreciate organic chemistry, then you really have to know what you are doing, otherwise you'll be disappointed quickly!

 

Besides what I mentioned above, organics frequenly involve volatile solvents and reactants. This introduces a severe additional risk for your health.

 

If I were you, stick to inorganics for the time being. This is easier, the chemicals can be obtained more easily and the risks for your health are less (there are some exceptions, but the average home chemist will not come across these usually).

[akcapr]

well, ive lately had few stuff to do in inorganic, so i wanted to see if i could try orgo.

[latentheat]

The reaction between propanone and sodium hypochlorite will make trichloromethane. If you do it, do it outside or in a fume hood because it stinks to high heaven. It could also make you tired and give you a headache if you breathe it in too much.

[akcapr]

nice. ill try that. hopefully i wont fall asleep during it tho

[akcapr]

could i use the products of that reaction for someting (especially the chloroform)?

 

oh also, if i did that reaction would the chlorofrm float to the top, or sink to the bottom, or something else?

[BenSon]

Try making some esters they are not particularly hard and is a good beginner experiment in orgo. Have patience though its not the speediest of reactions, but quite satisfying. Also avoid esters that use butanoic acid they aren't harder to make but the smell of the acid is definately one to do under a fume hood.

 

~Scott

[budullewraagh]

oy, the stench of vomit. most alcohols and carboxylic acids smell awful anyway

 

"CH3COCH3 + 6 NaClO -> CHCl3 + CH3COONa + 2 NaOH + 3 NaCl"

consider the above. haloform reactions involve nucleophilic substitution; the oxidation of methyl ketones to carboxylic acids. propanone is a methyl ketone on both sides of the center carbon, so actually that should yield the sodium salt of carbonic acid and two chloroform molecules/propanone.

 

in addition, one could use the pure halogen and hydroxide to do the same reaction.

 

anyway, esterfication is fun, and it's easy to figure out the success of your experiment. just be careful not to smell your product too much, as i've found that they cause massive headaches.

 

you could try something with organometallics, although it's very difficult to succeed. careful with things like silver acetylide though. i wouldn't suggest you try that. i have a book in .pdf format on the synthetic use of metals in organic chemistry, so if you want it, just message me.

 

what sort of thing do you want to do with organic syntheses? there are so many options. if you tell me what sort of thing you want to do, i can give you some advice

[jdurg]

Esterification is probably one of the better 'beginner' organic chemistry labs. All you need is a relatively pure organic acid (and you can make that by concentrating vinegar), and a relatively pure alcohol (And you can get virtually pure isopropanol pretty easily). Take the pure acid and alcohol and mix them with a little bit of concentrated sulfuric acid in a flask on a hotplate with constant stirring. The ester will form and you should be able to distill it off. You'll definitely know if you made it simply by the smell alone.

 

Oh, one more warning. The human body can easily become 'sensitized' to organic esters (organic esters just sounds redundant, doesn't it?). Ethyl acetate is notorious for doing this. In an internship and in many organic labs I used gallons of the stuff as a solvent. At first, the smell was kind of nice and I didn't mind it. But after a few weeks, I started getting headaches from the smell and it was no longer 'nice'. Now, if I even get a tiny whiff of the stuff I start getting a headache. I can tell if a bottle of acetone free nail-polish remover was opened simply from the smell and the headache that the ehtyl acetate gives me.

[akcapr]

well esterification sounds cool, but i dont really know how to do any of theose... perhaps some more detailed instructions. Btw i have 200 proof ethanol nad glacial acetic acid.

[budullewraagh]

just a note on esterfication; out of curiosity, i once used fuming HCl, 20% methanol and 15% ethanoic acid to make methyl ethanoate. after a year sitting in a 60mL bottle, it still smells great. surprisingly i actually obtained great yields.

[latentheat]

could i use the products of that reaction for someting (especially the chloroform)?

 

oh also' date=' if i did that reaction would the chlorofrm float to the top, or sink to the bottom, or something else?[/quote']

 

It will sink to the bottom into a clear looking blob, or maybe a few blobs. You can use the chloroform as a solvent.

 

And in response to budullewraagh - I was unsure of the other products besides chloroform, so I looked it up and thats what I found. You are probably right though, so I will remove that bit from my post.

[latentheat]

just a note on esterfication; out of curiosity, i once used fuming HCl

 

So it WILL work w/ HCl? That makes me happy. H2SO4 is really hard to find in new york without a ton of buffers in it.

[Yggdrasil]

Ideally, you would perform an esterification with sulfuric acid. The presence of water in the initial reaction mixture will decrease yields (because it shifts the equilibrium toward the products), so adding sulfuric acid helps to eliminate water and increase yields.

 

If you do decide to do an esterification, here are some compounds and the fragrance they produce:

 

Isoamyl acetate - banana oil

Ethyl butyrate - pineapple

Isobutyl propionate - rum

Octyl acetate - orange

Methyl anthranilate - grape

Isopentenyl acetate - "Juicy Fruit"

benzyl acetate - peach

n-propyl acetate - pear

methyl butyrate - apple

ethly phenylacetate - honey

methyl salicylate - oil of wintergreen

2-phenyl ethyl propionate - lily flower

[H2SO4]

I heard you just have to boil acetic acid with your alcohol and distill the product and theres your ester. Btw, what ester is created between Isopropyl alcohol and acetic acid? iospentenyl acetate?

 

Im just guessing by the "iso" prefix.

[BenSon]

I heard you just have to boil acetic acid with your alcohol and distill the product and theres your ester. Btw, what ester is created between Isopropyl alcohol and acetic acid? iospentenyl acetate?

 

Im just guessing by the "iso" prefix.

Thats the basic procedure but its a bit more delecate then that, it also dosen't have to be acetic acid it can be and carboxyl group.

As for the name it all depends what system you use there are often many 'correct' names for the same organic compound but the one you've used is fine it implies the structure and is chemically correct. However I mostly use ethanoic instead of acetic, its just personal preference and what you (or your markers) understand the best.

 

~Scott

[budullewraagh]

"And in response to budullewraagh - I was unsure of the other products besides chloroform, so I looked it up and thats what I found. You are probably right though, so I will remove that bit from my post."

 

well, it just makes sense, as acetone is a methyl ketone in two places. i could be mistaken, but i believe it is true.

 

"So it WILL work w/ HCl? That makes me happy. H2SO4 is really hard to find in new york without a ton of buffers in it."

i live in new york and i have a good lot of sulfuric acid. order it online. if you don't want to, however, HCl will work, but you won't necessarily observe high yields.

 

"heard you just have to boil acetic acid with your alcohol and distill the product and theres your ester."

well, you could, or you could just add a dessicant (just make sure it isnt, say, barium hydroxide), or do neither. if you want the pure ester, you could distill. vacuum distillation sounds about right for this sort of thing.

 

"Btw, what ester is created between Isopropyl alcohol and acetic acid? iospentenyl acetate?"

 

no, you'd end up with isopropyl ethanoate.

 

"Thats the basic procedure but its a bit more delecate then that, it also dosen't have to be acetic acid it can be and carboxyl group."

interestingly enough, one doesn't necessarily need a carboxylic acid to perform an esterification reaction. consider sarin, the isopropyl ester of methylphosphorofluoridic acid. or nitroglycerin, the ester formed from nitric acid and glycerol.

 

a note on isopentyl ethanoate: it's a pheromone for bees. so unless you want to get raped by a swarm of bees, you may want to keep it indoors.

 

just another note; perhaps it's me, but the only alcohols i have access to are (apparently) methyl, ethyl and isopropyl, and the only carboxylic acids i have access to are (apparently) ethanoic and 2-hydroxy-1,2,3-propanetricarboxylic acid (citric). unfortunately, these don't provide a good variety of smells. anybody know of other OTC alcohols/carboxylic acids? if not, i may have to make some:\

[BenSon]

just another note; perhaps it's me, but the only alcohols i have access to are (apparently) methyl, ethyl and isopropyl, and the only carboxylic acids i have access to are (apparently) ethanoic and 2-hydroxy-1,2,3-propanetricarboxylic acid (citric). unfortunately, these don't provide a good variety of smells. anybody know of other OTC alcohols/carboxylic acids? if not, i may have to make some:\

I can't think of any OTC ones at the moment. Perhaps you could get some from your school labs you don't need a large amount to make enough ester to smell it, so they may give you some. If not you may have to "borrow some"

 

~Scot

[akcapr]

i have relitively alot of citric acid, but i havent found any use for it ever (except eating it), anone kno somwtin i could use it for?

[jdurg]

"Btw' date=' what ester is created between Isopropyl alcohol and acetic acid? iospentenyl acetate?"

 

no, you'd end up with isopropyl ethanoate.[/quote']

 

a.k.a. Isopropyl acetate.

[Mendelejev]

Well, I have a lot of formic acid. Could I do some nice experiments with it or not ? I also have ethanol, methanol, acetic acid (vineagar). But that's almost everything. (I have more inorganic products.)

[akcapr]

ivew found some oxalic acid, which is prertty strong for an organic acid. i was wondering if i could make some other oxalate or somekind of other thing that wouldnt be an oxalate anymore, or a ester, or someting- something, that i could test to make sure i got or if i coukd use it for sometin. any thoughts?

[H2SO4]

So, im wondering, how do insects and plants go about producing these esters?

[budullewraagh]

oxalates are reasonably toxic, so i suggest you be moderately careful with oxalic acid, lest you precipitate oxalate salts in your bloodstream.

[akcapr]

ya thats why i havent used it much